Value Collector
Have courage, and be kind.
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Can’t we have both?
The state of the economy at the street level
- Thread starter Tyler Durden
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PZ99
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So why did Abbott spend all that taxpayer money on an anti union royal commission?
Unions aren't obsolete - they're over regulated by Govt to the point of ineffectiveness.
So not coincidentally we now have wage stagnation and rampant wage theft.
No wonder this country's going nowhere.
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We need one but not necessarily the other.
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Wage stagnation is more about automation & technology, globalisation of services which unions cannot control as they arn't local or physical (ie building site or factory premises).
As for rampant wage theft, we all contribute to that, it is human nature to look after their own purse and buy the cheapest regardless of the working conditions of the people who produce the product or service.
As far as I can see, nothing has changed, as everything has always been changing.
PZ99
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Technology, digitised transactions etc have more to do with job losses outright rather than wage rates.
Wage stagnation is a combined result of unions being over regulated by Govt and non membership. Union membership is low, so employees no longer have that strength of many at the negotiating table.
Wage theft is illegal so I don't think we all contribute to it. I don't.
Failure to pay tax is also illegal. Is that human nature too?
Something has definitely changed. Like interest rates
Our GDP growth is so low because employees either don't have the confidence, or the power, to spend their money.Virtually all sides of politics agree on this - but it's up to the Govt to either fix it or cop a recession.
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Interesting point, but tech results in change simply by it's nature, it disrupts.
The traditional base of unions has changed as we digitised more products and services. I don't know how govnuts which are always behind the eight ball can change this or are willing. Tech is changing the working environment at an accelerated rate and it is had for the general populace to keep up.
Agreed wage theft is illegal, but if the legal lines are not clear, there will always be someone willing to push the boundaries for the own purposes.
As for you don't contribute to it, I am 100% SURE if I did an audit of everypart of your life, you would be contributing to it, often without knowing, but so we all do.
Agreed about the tax, but it is human nature to reduce our tax for our own benefit. Unfortunately this has become part of our culture.
Would you invest in a company that did not take every legal opportunity to increase their profits and thus you as an investor reap the rewards. This is a share forum after all.
Something has definitely changed. Like interest rates
Virtually all sides of politics agree on this - but it's up to the Govt to either fix it or cop a recession.
Our GDP growth is low because we have taken on way way to much debt, which feeds into confidence and spending/stimulation of the economy based on the current economic models.
I could go on for paragraphs how low IR's have a negative effect on the economy but that is for another time.
As for politics, we fail to have leaders anymore, or better said we have short term leaders, who only look towards the next election as the electorate is not capable of seeing the future other than what benefits them now. A simple analogy much be a football coach who only looks towards winning todays game and not the series.
That being said, our politicians are only reflecting what society wants at the moment and not the future. Take for interest, NG - does it benefit long term society or short term gains, but to change the rules will piss of their friends.
Does all levels of govnuts want to keep property prices increasing for the own benefit? Yes, it provides them revenue through taxes, land tax and stamp duty - great revenue stream. But does have some of the highest property prices in the world benefit our communities? I think not, everyone needs shelter.
As with taxes, why do we tax labor so high but give tax breaks on asset appreciation (CG)?
Should not a worker who stays in a job for 10 years get a 50% rebate on tax, the same as an asset investor who holds the asset for more than a year?
I could go on, but little changes over time, however the pace of change is accelerating, making it difficult for us all to keep up.
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One word - FEARSomething has definitely changed. Like interest rates
When the future looks to be filled with more problems than opportunities it's a natural response to batten down the hatches.
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I would also say it is a west fear of the future.
The west : us are loosing our edge:
Our capital and goods come from Asia, our food from over the world.
Bipartisan support on ending trade barriers and bring in migration, but we refuse to fight economically on level ground
I am all for minimum wages high tax rates and nanny states as long as you do not ask me to be competitive against a Vietnamese or indian developer while paying my plumber 120aud an hour.
Either we adopt an Australia first Trump Style economy with barriers, union wages and less migrants or we are economically doomed ,Argentina way, until crisis forces us to maybe change and turn wild free market a la Russia
Not only Australia but most of the west, we are just more fragile than the other western economies..
and you can add all the extra issues 3rd world resources based,farming economy, RE obsession, absence of leadership,while still pretending playing with the big boys: ndis, 50bil submarines etc
Can not end well
The west : us are loosing our edge:
Our capital and goods come from Asia, our food from over the world.
Bipartisan support on ending trade barriers and bring in migration, but we refuse to fight economically on level ground
I am all for minimum wages high tax rates and nanny states as long as you do not ask me to be competitive against a Vietnamese or indian developer while paying my plumber 120aud an hour.
Either we adopt an Australia first Trump Style economy with barriers, union wages and less migrants or we are economically doomed ,Argentina way, until crisis forces us to maybe change and turn wild free market a la Russia
Not only Australia but most of the west, we are just more fragile than the other western economies..
and you can add all the extra issues 3rd world resources based,farming economy, RE obsession, absence of leadership,while still pretending playing with the big boys: ndis, 50bil submarines etc
Can not end well
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The cfmeu could double it's membership easy by restricting overtime.
You have crane crews doing 12hour days, tilers, plasterers etc.
But the workers are greedy like the developers. So there numbers dwindle as jobs finish.
You have crane crews doing 12hour days, tilers, plasterers etc.
But the workers are greedy like the developers. So there numbers dwindle as jobs finish.
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If the retail sector is struggling, it's not because of business taxation, but because consumers aren't spending.
They tend not to do that if they are afraid of losing their jobs or if their income is being eaten up by increasing costs like power, fuel, rent and insurance.
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Pity this wasn't released before the election.
https://www.news.com.au/finance/eco...n/news-story/9a11d5acd56d55e34029d20f782485be
https://www.news.com.au/finance/eco...n/news-story/9a11d5acd56d55e34029d20f782485be
.
How high can wages keep going?
Things can't keep going up forever.
Technology, digitised transactions etc have more to do with job losses outright rather than wage rates.
Wage stagnation is a combined result of unions being over regulated by Govt and non membership. Union membership is low, so employees no longer have that strength of many at the negotiating table.
Wage theft is illegal so I don't think we all contribute to it. I don't.
Failure to pay tax is also illegal. Is that human nature too?
Something has definitely changed. Like interest rates
Virtually all sides of politics agree on this - but it's up to the Govt to either fix it or cop a recession.
How high can wages keep going?
Things can't keep going up forever.
PZ99
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Then lower the cost of living.
How high can wages keep going? About as much as inflation for starters.
Nowhere near as high as profits keep going.
I think it was already known out there. Labor ran on a platform of more taxes, it was politically blind too the obvious of what was going on out there.
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Not really. They promised bigger income tax cuts for those earning under $38k, ie the people who spend virtually all of any increase they get.
Zimbabwe experience will all get us on $1000000000 a year
I think we will definitely be deflating over the next few years. Unfortunately how do you afford employees if wages get too high. Unemployment will surely spike.
High profits some years, heavy losses and bankruptcy in the down cycle.
We had a fairly good run but you kick the can only so far down the road.
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Labor lost, because all of their proposed changes hit the middle income person, much harder than the high income person. The sad part is Labor can't see it.
Value Collector
Have courage, and be kind.
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You are right, we need franking credits.
But on a serious note, they are not linked at all, getting one doesn’t mean you can’t have the other.
They hit small business which was slready struggling. Accountant changes was a hit to small businesses. Taking away franking credits was always going to be viewed as negative even though only a small % use it. As was the negative gearing changes with houses. You scare the voters even if they don't use the schemes.
Its the indirect impact on people already at wits end. Labor were stupid to run it. Especially with Shorten at the helm. If they ran the visionary Rudd platform they may have got people excited.
PZ99
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What happens if the can goes the other way?Zimbabwe experience will all get us on $1000000000 a year
I think we will definitely be deflating over the next few years. Unfortunately how do you afford employees if wages get too high. Unemployment will surely spike.
High profits some years, heavy losses and bankruptcy in the down cycle.
We had a fairly good run but you kick the can only so far down the road.
Unemployment, heavy losses, bankruptcy will spike even faster.
Who is saying wages are too high ? Not the Govt. Not the reserve bank.
Zimbabwe? Try Cambodia. That's where we're heading. Freeze wages and get there quicker
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