The state of the economy at the street level

[The Triangle]

So add food, accommodation and a tracker to the deal to the $40 per hour and yes, as I said ……‘won’t get out of bed for less than $100 per hour’

What is the world coming to ???

… Oh why is inflation so high..,wages are too high and productivity is low, go figure…

Rant over (for the moment)

Maybe your mistake was running the advert in English? Australians won't work for less than $100/hour, but anyone else will.

 

[JohnDe]

The streets of Victoria may become quieter and poorer soon. Victorian taxpayers may be staring down the barrel of higher taxes, and it might be Jeff Kennett to the rescue again.

A poorer Victoria means a poorer Australia.

Victoria has become “a basket case” again because it borrowed “so much money on infrastructure projects that were never tightly managed, over budget and years behind delivery”.​

​

This “will adversely affect every other service provided by government, and cost opportunities for citizens”.​

Jeff Kennett calls for class action against ratings agencies

For the first time in Australia’s history, a former premier has publicly advocated for the citizens of the state he once led to lodge a class action against ratings agencies to recover some of the financial damage allowed to occur under a later premier.

It may be a world first.

The state is, of course, Victoria, and the former premier is Jeffrey Gibb Kennett. He does not name the ratings agencies, but the two agencies who rate Victorian debt are Standard and Poor’s and Moody’s.

Their combined global market capitalisation approaches $US200bn, so they are capable of paying enormous damages if they were to lose a class action.

Paradoxically, as Kennett’s advocacy of a class action was published in Melbourne’s Herald Sun newspaper, an Australian government minister offered Victoria hope.

Here is Kennett’s full statement on the class action:

“As for the ratings agencies who oversee Victoria’s economic management and debt, they are as liable as Red Dan (former Victorian premier Daniel Andrews).

“They have failed, as they did before, (in) the collapse of US company Enron. The people of Victoria should lodge a class action against them to recover some of the financial damage they allowed to occur.”

Former Victorian premier Daniel Andrews. Picture: Diego Fedele/NCA NewsWire

In the case of Enron, there were many class actions against agencies, but none of them yielded huge sums. A key hurdle for investors was establishing a direct link between Enron’s inflated ratings and their losses. Proving the agencies’ knowledge of Enron’s issues and their deliberate inaction proved difficult.

In the case of Victoria, unlike Enron, the over borrowing facts have been clearly known by the rating agencies and the question will be whether the agencies have any responsibilities to the Victorian public.

Next week the Victorian budget appears likely to start the process of trying to recover from that publicly known mess and the measures will need to be very severe or more and more cutbacks will be required.

Currently, Standard and Poor’s gives Victoria a credit rating in the AA bracket, which requires the state debt to be of “investment grade” with a “very strong capacity to meet financial commitments”.

Kennett says that rather than having a capacity to meet financial commitments, the Victorian government might have to borrow for part of its recurrent expenditure – ie paying for the services the state government has to provide “at a certain level of quality”.

Victoria has become “a basket case” again because it borrowed “so much money on infrastructure projects that were never tightly managed, over budget and years behind delivery”.

This “will adversely affect every other service provided by government, and cost opportunities for citizens”.

Kennett and his treasurer Alan Stockdale in the 1990s had to rescue Victoria from a similar crisis. He tells the rating agencies that think governments can tax their way to a high credit rating: “More tax will not reduce debt, it will only reduce our population of long-suffering citizens, who will seek refuge and greater opportunities elsewhere.”

If Kennett is right and Victoria can’t tax its way out of its mess, then for the rating agencies to give it an AA rating requires the Victorian government to slash expenditures on a massive scale, which is politically difficult to do.

Victorian Premier Jacinta Allan. Picture: David Geraghty/NCA NewsWire

Both ratings agencies entitled to believe that Victoria had a “very strong capacity to meet financial commitments”. However, to most people that capacity has for some time been in considerable doubt unless the Commonwealth was prepared to rescue Victorian citizens.

In my opinion one of the “B” rating classifications would have been more accurate.

For example, the BB rating Standard and Poor’s uses these words “less vulnerable in the near-term but faces major ongoing uncertainties to adverse business, financial and economic conditions”. In my view, two or three years ago, such a description would have been very appropriate to Victoria.

It certainly is now.

An earlier rating downgrade would have forced the Victorian government to take the steps that it is now taking, which at that time would have been a lot easier and a lot less painful for citizens.

One of the signs that a group requires a severe rating downgrade is when it tries to deceive its stakeholders using methods that are blatantly obvious to the ratings agencies. .

Victoria spent $42m on a committee asked to determine whether the state had onshore gas reserves. But the government instructed the committee not to look where it knew Victoria had huge reserves that had been estimated by the best US gas estimators and which did not require fracking. These massive gas reserves are next to the Gippsland treatment plant and on the Australian pipeline network.

The rating agencies might argue that the state was entitled to an AA rating because of the gas reserves.

But politically, developing the gas is extremely difficult, and some six wells must be drilled to make sure the gas flows. The committee, of course, claimed there was no onshore gas likely in Victoria. So concealing its existence from the public and the local media.

But Victoria has more gas than Queensland, and suddenly a “white knight” has appeared in Canberra who might make it possible for Victoria to save itself.

Energy Minister Chris Bowen says Australia has no option but to use gas and declares that gas will play an important role filling the gap left by wind and solar, particularly as the energy source can be turned on and off at short notice.

He declares new supply will be needed. And Victoria has all the new supply that Australia needs, and it is low cost and sits on the pipeline network. It's dissolved in water that can be used to grow carbon storing plants. And Victoria desperately needs the money.

Federal Energy Minister Chris Bowen. Picture: Martin Ollman/NCA NewsWire

 

[farmerge]

I used to work for a small mining company that used to do refurbishments, we used to stay in small towns of like 20~50 people max. In 2013 a farmer used to pay backpackers $5~10/hr to pick pawpaws all day and they did it the poor buggers.

Another time we had demountable offices and lunch rooms, do you think we could find someone to clean them in towns that didn't have any work? People would turn up for a week and never be seen again.

@TimeISmoney perhaps being in a small town with no possible work available the dole was just too good.

 

[sptrawler]

I used to work for a small mining company that used to do refurbishments, we used to stay in small towns of like 20~50 people max. In 2013 a farmer used to pay backpackers $5~10/hr to pick pawpaws all day and they did it the poor buggers.

Another time we had demountable offices and lunch rooms, do you think we could find someone to clean them in towns that didn't have any work? People would turn up for a week and never be seen again.

I'm on a cruise ship currently, talking to the staff who are mianly Philippino or Indonesian, they are on 9 and 2 swings.
That is 9 months on 2 months off before a new contract can be started, no super, no 4 weeks holidays, no long service leave, yet there 1100 of them on this ship.
So no problem getting workers, as has been shown in the latest ABS figures an extra 750,000 people in work, which is probably half of the new immigrants that have just come in.
The Aussies that don't want tl do the jobs are probably still not working. Lol

 

[farmerge]

I'm on a cruise ship currently, talking to the staff who are mianly Philippino or Indonesian, they are on 9 and 2 swings.
That is 9 months on 2 months off before a new contract can be started, no super, no 4 weeks holidays, no long service leave, yet there 1100 of them on this ship.
So no problem getting workers, as has been shown in the latest ABS figures an extra 750,000 people in work, which is probably half of the new immigrants that have just come in.
The Aussies that don't want tl do the jobs are probably still not working. Lol

And there-in lies the problem. Is the dole to generous, that they can afford not to pull their weight in today's society.
I as talking to one such oxygen thief recently as to why he didn't think he should be drawing a wage.
His retort was "why should I, when fools like me who are still working" are keeping him happily unemployed.
Well, I am 74 and have no intention to stop what I am doing, not because I feel a need to supplement this a***hole's way of life, but because I enjoy what I do.

 

[sptrawler]

And there-in lies the problem. Is the dole to generous, that they can afford not to pull their weight in today's society.
I as talking to one such oxygen thief recently as to why he didn't think he should be drawing a wage.
His retort was "why should I, when fools like me who are still working" are keeping him happily unemployed.
Well, I am 74 and have no intention to stop what I am doing, not because I feel a need to supplement this a***hole's way of life, but because I enjoy what I do.

IN the end as long as you are happy with your life, that's matters.

 

[sptrawler]

I was reading Queensland are giving out $1000 electrical subsidy to everyone and $1300 to welfare recipients.
There is going to be hell of a lot of bill shock when these handouts stop.

 

[qldfrog]

And there-in lies the problem. Is the dole to generous, that they can afford not to pull their weight in today's society.
I as talking to one such oxygen thief recently as to why he didn't think he should be drawing a wage.
His retort was "why should I, when fools like me who are still working" are keeping him happily unemployed.
Well, I am 74 and have no intention to stop what I am doing, not because I feel a need to supplement this a***hole's way of life, but because I enjoy what I do.

So do you enjoy supplement him...?
I do not dare to even suggest to change your mind, but I am always puzzled that people who "enjoy their job" are not able to enjoy some, any non job activity with real control on schedule, actual activities and companies...very selfish I know
Very personal, but for me it is nearly an ideological and principle matter to ensure that as soon as I can, I avoid feeding the parasites..be it the "air thieves" you mention or the ATO (more exactly the governments we have and their misuse of tax money).
Sorry for this out of subject rant but the more people carry on supporting the existing system, the more economic issues we have and the bigger the fall when we reach the inevitable chasm

 

[wayneL]

And there-in lies the problem. Is the dole to generous, that they can afford not to pull their weight in today's society.
I as talking to one such oxygen thief recently as to why he didn't think he should be drawing a wage.
His retort was "why should I, when fools like me who are still working" are keeping him happily unemployed.
Well, I am 74 and have no intention to stop what I am doing, not because I feel a need to supplement this a***hole's way of life, but because I enjoy what I do.

Haha. I was told yesterday by a client that I'm not allowed to retire.

The truth is that we are a complex society that needs various roles to be fulfilled, from street sweeper to brain surgeon.

It is also true that humans respond to incentives.... money, sex, social acceptance, respect, prestige, power etc.

Something is wrong in a society when the incentive for too many people to be a parasitic bludger, is stronger than the above.

I posit that such a society cannot endure long term.

 

[farmerge]

IN the end as long as you are happy with your life, that's matters.

happy to be alive, well and glad that I can do what I choose to do.

 

[ijrob6]

I was reading Queensland are giving out $1000 electrical subsidy to everyone and $1300 to welfare recipients.
There is going to be hell of a lot of bill shock when these handouts stop.

Another blanket cash splurge/brain fade by a state government facing almost certain defeat at the elections later this year.

This new subsidy and the previous $750 subsidy were paid direct to the energy provider. Nothing for those without homes, living in caravan parks, etc.

I have a large solar installation and will also receive the subsidy. I am in credit with the supplier who will not allow the subsidy to be cashed out so presumably that company will keep the government's money until I can somehow use much more electricity. Probably not in my limited life span. I know of others with similar stories.

I would be very happy to forsake the subsidy if it could be credited to a homeless charity or similar.

 

[JohnDe]

Another blanket cash splurge/brain fade by a state government facing almost certain defeat at the elections later this year.

This new subsidy and the previous $750 subsidy were paid direct to the energy provider. Nothing for those without homes, living in caravan parks, etc.

I have a large solar installation and will also receive the subsidy. I am in credit with the supplier who will not allow the subsidy to be cashed out so presumably that company will keep the government's money until I can somehow use much more electricity. Probably not in my limited life span. I know of others with similar stories.

I would be very happy to forsake the subsidy if it could be credited to a homeless charity or similar.

Pretty pizz poor that all the politicians think it is ok to give out money to voters when an election is on the books. I'm sick and tired of working my guts out to give a huge chunk to the ATO so that governments can throw it in the wind.

 

[sptrawler]

happy to be alive, well and glad that I can do what I choose to do.

It doesn't get better than that, you have your health and your still enjoying what you do, even though you could give it up if you wished.
Mate you've nailed it.

 

[qldfrog]

Pretty pizz poor that all the politicians think it is ok to give out money to voters when an election is on the books. I'm sick and tired of working my guts out to give a huge chunk to the ATO so that governments can throw it in the wind.

so my post https://www.aussiestockforums.com/t...conomy-at-the-street-level.28455/post-1277692
John..welcome to the club, so I took action..or more exactly non action

 

[farmerge]

It doesn't get better than that, you have your health and your still enjoying what you do, even though you could give it up if you wished.
Mate you've nailed it.

Thanks Mr sp

 

[Smurf1976]

This new subsidy and the previous $750 subsidy were paid direct to the energy provider. Nothing for those without homes, living in caravan parks, etc.

So nothing for those in most desperate need. Says it all.

 

[divs4ever]

So nothing for those in most desperate need. Says it all.

can't have the traditional ALP voters getting ideas of middle-class ( only the uni-indoctrinated ones stay loyal then )

 

[farmerge]

So nothing for those in most desperate need. Says it all.

But, but, but the poor struggling power supply companies are doing it tough aren't they!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[qldfrog]

But, but, but the poor struggling power supply companies are doing it tough aren't they!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

difference is the power company can just say: FU with your net zero , we close downn and we are in permanent black out..
whereas the citizens can do...zip

 

[divs4ever]

difference is the power company can just say: FU with your net zero , we close downn and we are in permanent black out..
whereas the citizens can do...zip

100% off grid , is becoming a more affordable option to many , and may have extra future benefits

BTW the government needs the power on , to monitor you all