The future of Australian property prices

[farmerge]

Yesterday was listening to the conversation hour on ABC as i was driving back from Bendigo.
Two university educated 20-30 somethings interviewing another 20-30 something researcher at a university about the need for high to medium density living.
They were all agreement how living in apartments was so much easier, close to shops, close to public transport, often close to restaurants.
The perfect world for them, and yet completely oblivious to the armies of suckers living in the burbs who have zero access to public transport, and thus rely on their own transport to even find the shops, restaurants and schools.
The only concession to made to any other group was 'the elderly', who really don't need to have to climb lots of stairs.
Forget about anyone with toddlers who also have to be mindful of stairs, or people with a disability.
They will be running the country in a decade.
Hope their level of self awareness improves a bit in the decade.
Mick

Ah Mick the "Me, Me syndrome they can't see past their collective noses.

 

[TimeISmoney]

was that flood-prone Cooparoo ( a very long history of that ) or in the higher areas ??

not much fun being trapped in your apartment

Not in a low flood area, but they did have builder problems there with rain water leaking into the building. She bought in when they were fairly new and then got lumped with more bills, this would have been more than 12 years ago.

 

[TimeISmoney]

I wonder who were the builders "the Dodgy Brothers".

This is fairly common from my experience and believe it or not the friggen Govt protects them from being prosecuted. My Brother bought a commercial unit years ago off the plans, there ended up being major structural issues within 2 years, the builder bankrupted themselves as soon as they got the legal letter and the govt mysteriously lost all the details from the compliance officers.

They blew over 100k with a solicitor that led up the garden path, which they could have put towards the repairs in the first place. There were about 20 unit holders that had to find 50k each to repair a unit that had nothing to do with them. Over years of holding the building, they had many compliance issues rectified at a cost to the owners and it's not an isolated story, it repeats itself across Australia every day.

 

[TimeISmoney]

Yesterday was listening to the conversation hour on ABC as i was driving back from Bendigo.
Two university educated 20-30 somethings interviewing another 20-30 something researcher at a university about the need for high to medium density living.
They were all agreement how living in apartments was so much easier, close to shops, close to public transport, often close to restaurants.
The perfect world for them, and yet completely oblivious to the armies of suckers living in the burbs who have zero access to public transport, and thus rely on their own transport to even find the shops, restaurants and schools.
The only concession to made to any other group was 'the elderly', who really don't need to have to climb lots of stairs.
Forget about anyone with toddlers who also have to be mindful of stairs, or people with a disability.
They will be running the country in a decade.
Hope their level of self awareness improves a bit in the decade.
Mick

There were studies done in the US years ago and a lot of people suffer from mental health issues in apartments, from lack of sleep, noisy neighbors, and so on. Then you have the problem of lumping all the poorer demographic people together and they have no opportunity to mingle with other people to better themselves like the ghettos that occur in the US.

 

[mullokintyre]

This is fairly common from my experience and believe it or not the friggen Govt protects them from being prosecuted. My Brother bought a commercial unit years ago off the plans, there ended up being major structural issues within 2 years, the builder bankrupted themselves as soon as they got the legal letter and the govt mysteriously lost all the details from the compliance officers.

They blew over 100k with a solicitor that led up the garden path, which they could have put towards the repairs in the first place. There were about 20 unit holders that had to find 50k each to repair a unit that had nothing to do with them. Over years of holding the building, they had many compliance issues rectified at a cost to the owners and it's not an isolated story, it repeats itself across Australia every day.

It is in the governments interest to discourage people from buying off the plan.
They don't want to outlaw it, but they want to discourage them nonetheless.
people often buy off the plan because there is no stamp duty levied on the sale.
It would seem that in more than a few cases, building delays, cost increases and downright shoddy workmanship end up costing more than the stamp duty.
Mick

 

[Value Collector]

Yesterday was listening to the conversation hour on ABC as i was driving back from Bendigo.
Two university educated 20-30 somethings interviewing another 20-30 something researcher at a university about the need for high to medium density living.
They were all agreement how living in apartments was so much easier, close to shops, close to public transport, often close to restaurants.
The perfect world for them, and yet completely oblivious to the armies of suckers living in the burbs who have zero access to public transport, and thus rely on their own transport to even find the shops, restaurants and schools.
The only concession to made to any other group was 'the elderly', who really don't need to have to climb lots of stairs.
Forget about anyone with toddlers who also have to be mindful of stairs, or people with a disability.
They will be running the country in a decade.
Hope their level of self awareness improves a bit in the decade.
Mick

Have you been to Europe?

Much higher density in some of the cities over there, great public transport, it works out well when it’s designed well.

Suburbs are a modern phenomenon, and basically invented in their modern form by an executive at general motors..

 

[Smurf1976]

Two university educated 20-30 somethings interviewing another 20-30 something researcher at a university about the need for high to medium density living.
They were all agreement how living in apartments was so much easier, close to shops, close to public transport, often close to restaurants.
The perfect world for them, and yet completely oblivious to the armies of suckers living in the burbs who have zero access to public transport, and thus rely on their own transport to even find the shops, restaurants and schools.

In short this is by far the greatest real divide as it exists in Australia and it's what lies behind much recent public debate on a range of subjects. Housing itself obviously and the issues surrounding it but a long list of other things too. The white collar inner city set versus the rest.

High density suits some but for many it's a deal breaker. Indeed avoiding it is one of the key attractions of Australia as a place to live - because if we take the bit about the freestanding house with a backyard out, then that removes the most defining aspect of Australian cities and leaves other measures as the basis for comparison for those with the option on where to live.

 

[wayneL]

Have you been to Europe?

Much higher density in some of the cities over there, great public transport, it works out well when it’s designed well.

Suburbs are a modern phenomenon, and basically invented in their modern form by an executive at general motors..

This is true but it must be remembered that most of the cities/towns in Europe before the advent of the motor vehicle.

In the new world, Australia, Canada, United States etc, cities / towns evolved in the presence of motor vehicles, as you have noted.

This is a profound difference and not something which is easily changed. Two superimpose a European paradigm upon a new world city will not work very well in the short to medium term (and visa versa).

It is not as easy as simply saying, yeah well it is done like this in Europe.

 

[TimeISmoney]

It is in the governments interest to discourage people from buying off the plan.
They don't want to outlaw it, but they want to discourage them nonetheless.
people often buy off the plan because there is no stamp duty levied on the sale.
It would seem that in more than a few cases, building delays, cost increases and downright shoddy workmanship end up costing more than the stamp duty.
Mick

I bought off the plan in the 2000s, and couldn't find anything already built close to what I bought within 50K, wasn't the best built house but still have it to this day.

With the quality of builds I've seen around these days, I'd be scared of just building a house with a builder.

 

[Value Collector]

This is true but it must be remembered that most of the cities/towns in Europe before the advent of the motor vehicle.

In the new world, Australia, Canada, United States etc, cities / towns evolved in the presence of motor vehicles, as you have noted.

This is a profound difference and not something which is easily changed. Two superimpose a European paradigm upon a new world city will not work very well in the short to medium term (and visa versa).

It is not as easy as simply saying, yeah well it is done like this in Europe.

Yeah, I agree but it is something that governments and town planners can work towards, atleast on a micro scale. It’s not impossible.

MI’ll seemed to be dismisses the concepts out of hand.

 

[wayneL]

Yeah, I agree but it is something that governments and town planners can work towards, atleast on a micro scale. It’s not impossible.

MI’ll seemed to be dismisses the concepts out of hand.

Yeah I'm not against it at all. I've lived in the UK and really quite enjoyed the compact town that we lived in. But I do think it would be a very complex endeavour to convert our cities into that. Not impossible, but very disruptive for a long and indeterminate amount of time.

Very expensive also

 

[mullokintyre]

Yeah I'm not against it at all. I've lived in the UK and really quite enjoyed the compact town that we lived in. But I do think it would be a very complex endeavour to convert our cities into that. Not impossible, but very disruptive for a long and indeterminate amount of time.

Very expensive also

See this post from @SirRumpole .
Replace Germany with pretty much any country in urope, or the UK, and the comparison is the same.
Mick

 

[Value Collector]

Yeah I'm not against it at all. I've lived in the UK and really quite enjoyed the compact town that we lived in. But I do think it would be a very complex endeavour to convert our cities into that. Not impossible, but very disruptive for a long and indeterminate amount of time.

Very expensive also

London is fantastic to get around by train(tube) and is very walkable also.

 

[Value Collector]

See this post from @SirRumpole .
Replace Germany with pretty much any country in urope, or the UK, and the comparison is the same.
Mick
View attachment 171674

Yeah Australia is big, but it’s mostly empty, and most of the population live in cities, there is nothing really stopping our cities becoming more dense in sensible way.

 

[wayneL]

London is fantastic to get around by train(tube) and is very walkable also.

We lived in Wimbledon Village for a while, directly across the road from the common. Once you do find a parking spot, you never drive your car ever again because you'll lose the spot

So yeah, the oyster card is a must. Missus worked at Hyde Park teaching Dressage and tubed it in.

Our local was just across the common, the Hand in Hand, dog friendly and the hang out of the Aussie tennis players after The Championship (Didn't know that at first, just jagged it). Just a short walk through the common.

Cycling also a good option going into the Village, Putney or Chelsea or where ever.

Good times.

 

[Smurf1976]

So far as high density is concerned, it's much the same as many things.

The problem isn't with the availability of an alternative for those who choose it.

The problem is when someone seeks to force it upon those who don't want it.

 

[farmerge]

So far as high density is concerned, it's much the same as many things.

The problem isn't with the availability of an alternative for those who choose it.

The problem is when someone seeks to force it upon those who don't want it.

For Me and She when retirement happens it will still be open spaces, not the acres we are used to, but more than likely 2 to 5. Gotta have some space.

 

[farmerge]

For Me and She when retirement happens it will still be open spaces, not the acres we are used to, but more than likely 2 to 5. Gotta have some space.

She reckons if we have to move into a unit or flat then there will be a murder, of me.

 

[qldfrog]

I would just say that few are the people who have ever lived on acreage keen to go back living in a unit voluntarily .
But mankind is easy conditionned.
You will own nothing and be happy
Between our last acreage buy /sell settlement dates, we had to spend 4 weeks in a row in a unit .
And we are not talking public housing: opposite beach. Sounds of wave, big spa,2 bedroom bathroom just for the 2 of us, with pool and terrace, balconies...
Never again sharing the yapping of a dog, the stink of cigaret or cooking, the lift, the communal area..and 7k a year. BC fees discussed previously ...
At the very least a decent size land on house.
But yes, rabbit hutches for video game and uber eat addicts living meaningless lives, is a dream for our world 2.0 wef leaders.
And no travel ..for the peons..to save the planet and prevent awareness.
Maybe a trip yearly to a DisneyWorld and they are happy and contended eating and living crap
But I agree on one thing, if you want to import millions migrants to have them unemployed, you need to have dense living aka ghettos otherwise you will spoil Bondi, Noosa and Yarra,all our leaders playgrounds....

 

[Value Collector]

See this post from @SirRumpole .
Replace Germany with pretty much any country in urope, or the UK, and the comparison is the same.
Mick
View attachment 171674

I would just say that few are the people who have ever lived on acreage keen to go back living in a unit voluntarily .
But mankind is easy conditionned.
You will own nothing and be happy
Between our last acreage buy /sell settlement dates, we had to spend 4 weeks in a row in a unit .
And we are not talking public housing: opposite beach. Sounds of wave, big spa,2 bedroom bathroom just for the 2 of us, with pool and terrace, balconies...
Never again sharing the yapping of a dog, the stink of cigaret or cooking, the lift, the communal area..and 7k a year. BC fees discussed previously ...
At the very least a decent size land on house.
But yes, rabbit hutches for video game and uber eat addicts living meaningless lives, is a dream for our world 2.0 wef leaders.
And no travel ..for the peons..to save the planet and prevent awareness.
Maybe a trip yearly to a DisneyWorld and they are happy and contended eating and living crap
But I agree on one thing, if you want to import millions migrants to have them unemployed, you need to have dense living aka ghettos otherwise you will spoil Bondi, Noosa and Yarra,all our leaders playgrounds....

It all comes down to lifestyle, some people like the country vibes, some people like town life. City life can be very nice if your apartment is designed well, with ample recreational green spaces.

for some one like me that likes to travel for 3 months of the year, I think I could easily give up the house and live in an apartment where I can just shut the door and leave and not have to worry about lawns etc

I would love to live here, I just need to find another 10 bagger.