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The future of Astraya

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So we're depleting a finite resource at a far more rapid rate, have tripled the price of gas to Australian industry (job losses here we come....) and aren't even making a profit out of it all.

The Qld LNG "boom" has been the single biggest blunder Australia has made in a very long time.

Fast forward 30 years and the gas is gone for both exports and domestic uses alike, farmlands wrecked to get it all out and not even a pile of cash to show for it. A tragic waste.
 
Chris Kenny sums up the future of ASTRAYA.


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opi...y/news-story/8043aa9c18888460f400eff586525725

Just 200 years ago almost all of the world’s population lived in poverty, 84 per cent in extreme poverty. Now that number, on World Bank data, is down to 10 per cent and falling rapidly. During the postwar population explosion the absolute numbers in poverty rose while the proportion fell. But even as the global population has more than doubled since the 1970s, absolute numbers in poverty have been falling while the proportion has plummeted. In China alone, about 700 million people have been lifted out of poverty in the past three decades.

For all our troubles, we live in what historically is relative peace. We have seen democracy rise or flourish in Japan, India, Indonesia, Malaysia, Pakistan, Russia, eastern European nations, South American countries and much of Africa. We have seen the Berlin Wall come down and the end of the Cold War and apartheid. We have seen people walk on the moon, women in space, Russians and Americans on the same space stations, cancers cured, hearts transplanted and an African-American family in the White House for two terms. Singers from Iceland, artists from central Australian deserts, musicians from South America, writers from India and film directors from Japan can reach global audiences.

In our childhoods we saw fanciful sci-fi of people speaking by video link, now we see our children as we chat to them on our mobile phones. Babies once never conceived now are born with the aid of in-vitro science while others who would have died are saved. As Paul Simon has sung, these are the days of miracle and wonder. We should embrace, teach and celebrate our achievements and the ideas and institutions that allowed them. We should be proud of the cultures that produced the scientific, economic, social and artistic triumphs of our time.

A great deal of what has been achieved can be attributed to the success of the liberal democratic model. Even where other models have been economically successful, such as in China, this has been largely because of the way their culture and governmental model have embraced peace and trade with liberal democracies.

Yet it must be obvious that the personal and political freedoms enjoyed in Western liberal democracies, the strength of our institutions, the innovation and adaptability of our economies and the openness of our multicultural societies are preferable to any authoritarian or closed regime.

Our reluctance to routinely accept this as the foundation or starting point in much of our national debate is disappointing. We seem overwhelmed by a cultural cowardice, perhaps a cultural cowering, that sometimes seems like surrender or self-harm.

We are overrun by a postmodernist urge to accept all models as equal, all cultural practices as acceptable and all realities debatable. Yet just as we decried the treatment of Africans under apartheid, can we not decry cultures or political models where women are enslaved or denied their rights? Where another nation limits families to one child or refuses democracy to its citizens, can we not proclaim that our system and standards are superior?

Consider how in so many contemporary debates we seem to undermine our own country, culture, civilisation and achievements. As the debate flared this week over Muslim immigration I noticed a tweet by Jenny Noyes, a Fairfax Media journalist. “Our border policy already targets and excludes Muslims,” she tweeted.

Really? This is how we respond to the simplistic and discriminatory calls by Pauline Hanson and her ilk to ban Muslim immigration: we wrongly condemn our multicultural nation and its generous and non-discriminatory immigration program as racist?

The green Left continues to practise its jihad denialism whenever Islamist terrorism raises its ugly head. Radio National opinionista Jonathan Green referred to the man who mowed down 84 people with a truck in Nice not as a terrorist but “someone not quite functioning in an appropriate manner”. Also on Radio National, Ellen Fanning seemed to struggle to understand why people would fear Islamist terrorism but was all too willing to empathise with Australian Muslims fearing their fellow citizens. Those who question the oppression evident in women covered by a burka or niqab are themselves likely to be tainted as bigots rather than defenders of women’s rights.

The coal industry is attacked as a corporate beast devouring the planet even while we enjoy all the benefits of industrialisation, and coal-fired power (often sourced from Australia) continues to lift millions of people out of poverty across Asia. If we are going to teach our children that coal is killing the planet, might we also teach them about the genius of coal-fired energy and how they wouldn’t have their iPhones, airconditioning, X-ray machines and high standard of living without it?

Even the re-energised politics of envy seems to dismiss the success of our capitalist model. Like the Western communists before the wall came down, the Occupy Wall Street crowd and their more mainstream supporters on the green Left are obsessed with inequality rather than the rising tide. If our living standards are good and improving, what does it worry us how rich Taylor Swift (pictured below) or Warren Buffett has become?

The success of our model is built on the potential for people to become rich. Open markets and private enterprise rely not just on the incentive of reward for risk-takers and innovators but on the reality that some of their ideas will succeed to help employ the rest of us. The outcomes are not equal but, as far as possible, the opportunities are — and it works.

We darken our history with talk of “invasion” rather than celebration of indigenous achievement. We bemoan a lack of political leadership rather than celebrate our ability to prosper without it. We fret about climate rather than relish how science starts to comprehend it. We are down on ourselves when we should be proud and optimistic. This cultural cowardice is not our problem alone; it seems to be infecting all Western liberal democracies. But as our civilisation is under attack from Islamist extremists or anarchists within, we ought to be in no doubt about the historic significance and strength of our democratic institutions, economic model and social norms, even as we work to improve them.

From one comment :-

iain 3 HOURS AGO
Socialism - 90% poor and oppressed, 9% well off, 1% super rich

Islamism - 45% poor and oppressed (women), 45% poor and oppressing (men), 9% well off, 1% super rich

Capitalism - 9% poor but not oppressed, 90% well off, 1% super rich

Take your pick.
 
noco said:
Chris Kenny sums up the future of ASTRAYA.


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opi...y/news-story/8043aa9c18888460f400eff586525725

Just 200 years ago almost all of the world’s population lived in poverty, 84 per cent in extreme poverty. Now that number, on World Bank data, is down to 10 per cent and falling rapidly. During the postwar population explosion the absolute numbers in poverty rose while the proportion fell. But even as the global population has more than doubled since the 1970s, absolute numbers in poverty have been falling while the proportion has plummeted. In China alone, about 700 million people have been lifted out of poverty in the past three decades.

For all our troubles, we live in what historically is relative peace. We have seen democracy rise or flourish in Japan, India, Indonesia, Malaysia, Pakistan, Russia, eastern European nations, South American countries and much of Africa. We have seen the Berlin Wall come down and the end of the Cold War and apartheid. We have seen people walk on the moon, women in space, Russians and Americans on the same space stations, cancers cured, hearts transplanted and an African-American family in the White House for two terms. Singers from Iceland, artists from central Australian deserts, musicians from South America, writers from India and film directors from Japan can reach global audiences.

In our childhoods we saw fanciful sci-fi of people speaking by video link, now we see our children as we chat to them on our mobile phones. Babies once never conceived now are born with the aid of in-vitro science while others who would have died are saved. As Paul Simon has sung, these are the days of miracle and wonder. We should embrace, teach and celebrate our achievements and the ideas and institutions that allowed them. We should be proud of the cultures that produced the scientific, economic, social and artistic triumphs of our time.

A great deal of what has been achieved can be attributed to the success of the liberal democratic model. Even where other models have been economically successful, such as in China, this has been largely because of the way their culture and governmental model have embraced peace and trade with liberal democracies.

Yet it must be obvious that the personal and political freedoms enjoyed in Western liberal democracies, the strength of our institutions, the innovation and adaptability of our economies and the openness of our multicultural societies are preferable to any authoritarian or closed regime.

Our reluctance to routinely accept this as the foundation or starting point in much of our national debate is disappointing. We seem overwhelmed by a cultural cowardice, perhaps a cultural cowering, that sometimes seems like surrender or self-harm.

We are overrun by a postmodernist urge to accept all models as equal, all cultural practices as acceptable and all realities debatable. Yet just as we decried the treatment of Africans under apartheid, can we not decry cultures or political models where women are enslaved or denied their rights? Where another nation limits families to one child or refuses democracy to its citizens, can we not proclaim that our system and standards are superior?

Consider how in so many contemporary debates we seem to undermine our own country, culture, civilisation and achievements. As the debate flared this week over Muslim immigration I noticed a tweet by Jenny Noyes, a Fairfax Media journalist. “Our border policy already targets and excludes Muslims,” she tweeted.

Really? This is how we respond to the simplistic and discriminatory calls by Pauline Hanson and her ilk to ban Muslim immigration: we wrongly condemn our multicultural nation and its generous and non-discriminatory immigration program as racist?

The green Left continues to practise its jihad denialism whenever Islamist terrorism raises its ugly head. Radio National opinionista Jonathan Green referred to the man who mowed down 84 people with a truck in Nice not as a terrorist but “someone not quite functioning in an appropriate manner”. Also on Radio National, Ellen Fanning seemed to struggle to understand why people would fear Islamist terrorism but was all too willing to empathise with Australian Muslims fearing their fellow citizens. Those who question the oppression evident in women covered by a burka or niqab are themselves likely to be tainted as bigots rather than defenders of women’s rights.

The coal industry is attacked as a corporate beast devouring the planet even while we enjoy all the benefits of industrialisation, and coal-fired power (often sourced from Australia) continues to lift millions of people out of poverty across Asia. If we are going to teach our children that coal is killing the planet, might we also teach them about the genius of coal-fired energy and how they wouldn’t have their iPhones, airconditioning, X-ray machines and high standard of living without it?

Even the re-energised politics of envy seems to dismiss the success of our capitalist model. Like the Western communists before the wall came down, the Occupy Wall Street crowd and their more mainstream supporters on the green Left are obsessed with inequality rather than the rising tide. If our living standards are good and improving, what does it worry us how rich Taylor Swift (pictured below) or Warren Buffett has become?

The success of our model is built on the potential for people to become rich. Open markets and private enterprise rely not just on the incentive of reward for risk-takers and innovators but on the reality that some of their ideas will succeed to help employ the rest of us. The outcomes are not equal but, as far as possible, the opportunities are ”” and it works.

We darken our history with talk of “invasion” rather than celebration of indigenous achievement. We bemoan a lack of political leadership rather than celebrate our ability to prosper without it. We fret about climate rather than relish how science starts to comprehend it. We are down on ourselves when we should be proud and optimistic. This cultural cowardice is not our problem alone; it seems to be infecting all Western liberal democracies. But as our civilisation is under attack from Islamist extremists or anarchists within, we ought to be in no doubt about the historic significance and strength of our democratic institutions, economic model and social norms, even as we work to improve them.

From one comment :-

iain 3 HOURS AGO
Socialism - 90% poor and oppressed, 9% well off, 1% super rich

Islamism - 45% poor and oppressed (women), 45% poor and oppressing (men), 9% well off, 1% super rich

Capitalism - 9% poor but not oppressed, 90% well off, 1% super rich

Take your pick.
Click to expand...

That's not summing up the future of Astraya, moate.

That was telling the plebs to be happy and grateful and look on the bright side. All peppered with innovation and other trickle down goodies.

You don't like coal? What! You mean you don't like innovation and science and iPhones?

You don't like working harder, for longer hours, but your pay remain the same or going down? Haven't you met any Chinese or Indians or (third world poverty). Go there and see how they'd kill to be in your place.

I could go on but let's not get a brainfreeze.
 
iain 3 HOURS AGO
Socialism - 90% poor and oppressed, 9% well off, 1% super rich

Islamism - 45% poor and oppressed (women), 45% poor and oppressing (men), 9% well off, 1% super rich

Capitalism - 9% poor but not oppressed, 90% well off, 1% super rich

Take your pick.
Click to expand...

In other words, be happy with your lot and stop complaining.

Well, what's the point of a democracy if you can't exercise freedom of speech and criticise your leaders ?

Especially when they stuff up, which they have over csg.
 
SirRumpole said:
In other words, be happy with your lot and stop complaining.

Well, what's the point of a democracy if you can't exercise freedom of speech and criticize your leaders ?

Especially when they stuff up, which they have over csg.
Click to expand...

And the GFC !!!!....And the Swannie Mining tax....and the cash for clunkers.....and food watch...and border control...and fuel watch.....and the corrupt unions condoned by Bill Shorten....The Queensland state Labor government allowing discrimination between black and white Uni students...The white uni students are not allowed to use black students computers but it is OK the other way around....Daniel Andrews Marxist safe schools program.....Daniel Andrews waste of Victorian taxpayers dollar with the East/West free way......The state Labor government under Palazczuk raiding the public super funds.

That should be enough to annoy you for a start....I am sure there is more I can lay my hands on.
 
noco said:
And the GFC !!!!....And the Swannie Mining tax....and the cash for clunkers.....and food watch...and border control...and fuel watch.....and the corrupt unions condoned by Bill Shorten....The Queensland state Labor government allowing discrimination between black and white Uni students...The white uni students are not allowed to use black students computers but it is OK the other way around....Daniel Andrews Marxist safe schools program.....Daniel Andrews waste of Victorian taxpayers dollar with the East/West free way......The state Labor government under Palazczuk raiding the public super funds.

That should be enough to annoy you for a start....I am sure there is more I can lay my hands on.
Click to expand...

So both Labor and Liberals are screwing us over? Not just a one party thing?
 
qldfrog said:
Another step in the slow descend into the abyss
Click to expand...
Mrs and I are trying to decide from which abyss from which to observe the Apocalypse... working it down to regions and even down to towns/villages rather that countries... because every country is descending into the postmodern chasm of absurdity, facilitated by none other than our own people.

We are probably too old now to witness the world coming out the other side, so somewhere to raise chooks, grow veggies and smirk as the western world reaps what it has shown.
 
In the meantime

Gas cartel eats Australias last plastics manufacturer

It was the case that if you used polyethylene, then you would go to Qenos. But no more: The federal opposition has slammed the Albanese government’s lack of action on gas prices as major plastics manufacturer Qenos prepares to shut up shop in Victoria and NSW. Opposition energy spokesman Ted...
www.macrobusiness.com.au www.macrobusiness.com.au
ALP and Green ensuring salvation army soups will be net zero....
All that because none of our leaders have enough scientific knowledge to understand that CO2 CC is a scam.....
Or worse..they perfectly know..
 
Smurf1976 said:
So we're depleting a finite resource at a far more rapid rate, have tripled the price of gas to Australian industry (job losses here we come....) and aren't even making a profit out of it all.

The Qld LNG "boom" has been the single biggest blunder Australia has made in a very long time.

Fast forward 30 years and the gas is gone for both exports and domestic uses alike, farmlands wrecked to get it all out and not even a pile of cash to show for it. A tragic waste.
Click to expand...
But but but climate change we must stop using LNG locally and western countries to save the planet.
 
Truth bombs! And to be fair it is not just the Labor Party, the other side are no better.

 
wayneL said:
Truth bombs! And to be fair it is not just the Labor Party, the other side are no better.
Click to expand...
The thing is if you are a good politician and can create the optics, it opens the doors to many opportunities, that would be difficult if not impossible to open if you were a worker in a business.
Hence why so many lawyers are there, excellent training for delivering opinions to an audience and it is on a televised stage not down at the local court of petty sessions. ;)
 
sptrawler said:
The thing is if you are a good politician and can create the optics, it opens the doors to many opportunities, that would be difficult if not impossible to open if you were a worker in a business.
Hence why so many lawyers are there, excellent training for delivering opinions to an audience and it is on a televised stage not down at the local court of petty sessions. ;)
Click to expand...
That's true to an extent and a bit of a flaw in how politics work IMO. To be sure, a percentage of lawyers in politics is not a bad thing, a knowledge of how to prosecute an idea and constructing legislation is pretty essential.

The thing is that if you have nothing but lawyers, union reps, political science ideologues and party apparatchiks, then you have a politics that is completely separated from real-life.

Perhaps the local septic tank contractor might be totally unsuited to the role, however you do need people that have, taken large risks, been able to build a business, employed people, dealt with the debtors and creditors ledger and whatnot. These people are more likely to understand middle Australia, even people from various strata of society.

This is what is missing from the current Labor party, indeed largely (but not totally) missing from the current LNP.

We government's totally rooted in the bureaucratic mind and it shows in the policy discussions at present.... All ideology and virtually no pragmatism whatsoever.

These are people with the authoritarian impulse, first order thinking and who's focus is on manipulating short term voting intentions with scarcely a thought of long-term impacts.

Is it any wonder why the Australia of today is in such deep trouble, replete with rent seekers and pork barrelers, with absolutely no intention of acting in the greater interests of the nation in the long term, totally reliant on dodgy economic theories.
 
Like I keep saying where is a Statesman with a vision, of how to turn it around, we get glimpses but alas they leave the cesspit to further their personal aspirations.
Entrenched apathy and self interest seems to be the order of the day, puppets being played by the media puppeteers, personifies Australian politics IMO.
It's sad really we seem to have actually sunk, to a the point of having to choose between the worst of two evils and the decision is usually decided by which media outlet has the best muck raking team.
As was shown last election, by the winner actually attaining office on the lowest primary vote ever, what an achievement.

Hopefully in the near future the parties can come together for Australia's benefit, rather than the next election result, because we are very close to a major crossroad that will set the die for Australia's future IMO. :rolleyes:
 
wayneL said:
The thing is that if you have nothing but lawyers, union reps, political science ideologues and party apparatchiks, then you have a politics that is completely separated from real-life.

Perhaps the local septic tank contractor might be totally unsuited to the role, however you do need people that have, taken large risks, been able to build a business, employed people, dealt with the debtors and creditors ledger and whatnot. These people are more likely to understand middle Australia, even people from various strata of society.
Click to expand...
Personally I'd like to see more people with a background in anything where success is required in order to remain employed or in business.

Because if you really think about it, there's quite a few occupations where someone who isn't successful could survive in practice without suffering any real consequences and some of those just happen to be occupations that are over-represented in politics, something I suspect isn't a coincidence.

Versus anything from putting shoes on horses to engineering to share trading to commercial cleaning where either you do a satisfactory job or you'll be out of a job (or broke if self-employed).

Bonus points for anything that requires dealing with conflicting problems where no perfect solution will be possible, which is physically or psychologically difficult, which isn't "9 to 5" or which involves serious consequences if it goes wrong. :2twocents
 
A little bit off topic but touched a bit in the last few posts senator Thomas Massie is an interesting US pollie.
He literally built his house with wood off his land. Guy is fully off grid. A lot of other interesting stuff on him. Really old school character.

The idea that lawyers and union leaders are somehow above us in intellect is so badly wrong. I mix with both and they are some of the most narrow minded dillwads I've seen. What they are good at is navigating in between the rules. That's it.
 
Smurf1976 said:
Personally I'd like to see more people with a background in anything where success is required in order to remain employed or in business.

Because if you really think about it, there's quite a few occupations where someone who isn't successful could survive in practice without suffering any real consequences and some of those just happen to be occupations that are over-represented in politics, something I suspect isn't a coincidence.

Versus anything from putting shoes on horses to engineering to share trading to commercial cleaning where either you do a satisfactory job or you'll be out of a job (or broke if self-employed).

Bonus points for anything that requires dealing with conflicting problems where no perfect solution will be possible, which is physically or psychologically difficult, which isn't "9 to 5" or which involves serious consequences if it goes wrong. :2twocents
Click to expand...
Think of running for Parliament @Smurf1976 ?

If so you had better let us know so we know who to vote for. ;)
 

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