The beauty in religion

[pavilion103]

Tink, the people that knock Christianity in this forum don't actually understand what Christianity is. So in one way I understand their perspective. They are knocking a Christianity which is one they have been told about by society, which has nothing to do with Christ's teachings. So the thing they are arguing against isn't even the thing we are defending.

Secondly, people don't differentiate between concrete scientific evidence and scientific assumption/theory. I would understand if someone didn't accept Christianity because they weren't aware of the evidence for it, but to have the worldview that there is no God at all is incredulous. Completely unscientific. You can't get past the very first question. Can something come from nothing? well.... NO. A 5 year old kid could tell you this.

Too many people also focus on those who represent Christianity poorly (and who are theorefore not even real Christians), rather than focusing on what Christ actually taught. This is also very silly.

Lastly, people want to just do things their own way. They don't want to obey any principles no matter how good. Even with trading. Yet when we recognise that the world was created with these principles are the cornerstone for success (and we get over ourselves) and follow them, we experience a life beyond belief. That is what I am experiencing more and more.

It's like a kid who would has the choice to choose between a cardboard box (atheism) or a ticket to disney land (God). The kid chooses the box because he sees the ticket to Disney Land as only a piece of paper. If he knew what that really was of course he would choose it. There is no comparison.

Day to day I feel so much love, joy, peace. My life is amazing. Praise God.

And the great thing is as we grow, we want to make it about others. Help those in need. Better the world. Not because it's our duty (it is) but because we just love so much.

 

[Tink]

Pope Francis is doing a wonderful job for the Church, and has alot of positive feedback, not just from the religious folk. This is one of the occasions that was in the media yesterday with his talks on family day, but there has been many.

Boy wanders on stage, hugs Pope Francis

PEOPLE seem to love Pope Francis, and here's an excellent example of why.

Previous pontiffs have been a little stuffy and largely unapproachable to the common person. But not this Pope.
At an event in the Vatican this week, Catholic families from around the world gathered to celebrate the Year of Faith with His Holiness.
Six-year-old orphan Carlos was a little besotted with the leader of the world's Catholics.
Other popes may have sent the lad away, but Pope Francis showed the true meaning of the phrase Holy Father - acting like a proud father rather than a distant public figure.

Carlos, who was born in Colombia and was adopted by an Italian family last year, made his way on to stage as the Pontiff gave a speech.

Several cardinals tried to usher him away, even using lollies as a lure. But Carlos could not be moved

There were even hugs and pats-on-the-head from Francis, who continued with his speech.
Carlos even plonked himself down in the Pope's chair and the two had a small discussion amongst themselves.
His adopted mother, who wished to remain anonymous, said none of this was planned.
"The blessing our son receives goes out to all the abandoned children in this world," she said via social media, Italian news sites reported.
"Just another display of the pope and his kindness."
Awwwww.
Far be it for us to go all preachy, but we've got a fair idea that Jesus himself would have done something similar.
http://www.news.com.au/world/boy-wanders-on-stage-hugs-pope-francis/story-fndir2ev-1226750094623

 

[Tink]

Sums up the Beauty in Religion, throughout History
2,000+ years

 

[explod]

Yes, and to look up at that sensual space within the groin vaults, backed by hues of blue from the stained glass windows you are literally carried away on a cloud.

The humble architects did a good job.

 

[bellenuit]

Sums up the Beauty in Religion, throughout History
2,000+ years

That was the ad Tink. The reality is vastly different. Some of the statements in that ad are blatant lies. For example, that concerning every pope since Peter. I can't remember the exact words, something about lovingly cared for his flock. Some probably yes, but everyone? History tells a very different story. Many were no better than war lords. Many of the other statements made are similarly false. No mention of the Spanish Inquisition! The Crusades.

Even if everything said were true, it certainly does not SUM UP the story of the Catholic Church, with all the bad bits missing. It may, as you said, sum up the beauty, but ignoring the rest paints a false picture.

 

[Chris45]

Pope Francis is doing a wonderful job for the Church, and has alot of positive feedback, not just from the religious folk. This is one of the occasions that was in the media yesterday with his talks on family day, but there has been many.

Boy wanders on stage, hugs Pope Francis

Great story Tink!

I suppose it was a tricky situation, and probably not one to be encouraged, but wouldn't it have been really excellent if he had shown a bit more affection for the kid and maybe given him a hug, or sat him on his knee?

Then again the cynics would probably say he was "grooming" the kid or something, so maybe it's best he just did what he did and left it at that.

 

[Tink]

Bellenuit, I am bringing in some balance, and that is exactly what the Church/Religion has contributed through the years, and what they stand for, hospitals, orphanages, schools, founded university, the list goes on.

We have all heard the bad.

As I have said before, I am glad the Church is there standing up for the things I believe in, for the common good in society, for all life, and they stand firm in their beliefs, passed on to all generations.
Order and tradition.
They are the peacemakers in this world.

Thanks Chris, it is a good story.
He didnt even seem surprised by the boy walking on stage, the children were all sitting in the front row away from the parents and the boy just wanted to go and hug him.

Lovely.

 

[bellenuit]

Bellenuit, I am bringing in some balance, and that is exactly what the Church/Religion has contributed through the years, and what they stand for, hospitals, orphanages, schools, founded university, the list goes on.

I wonder if they considered the words of their God, when the produced that ad?

Matthew 6:2: “When you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by others.” Instead, give discreetly, “Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.”

 

[bellenuit]

Unlike the Vatican Press Bureau, the new pope seems to have read his Bible. Good on him, if true.

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2013/12/03/3011421/pope-francis-homeless/

 

[Tink]

Yes, he is doing a great service.

Time magazine has selected Pope Francis as the 'Person of the Year 2013'

For pulling the papacy out of the palace and into the streets, for committing the world's largest church to confronting its deepest needs and for balancing judgment with mercy
The magazine said the Catholic Church's new leader has changed the perception of the 2000-year-old institution in an extraordinary way in a short time.

"Rarely has a new player on the world stage captured so much attention so quickly - young and old, faithful and cynical - as Pope Francis.

"In his nine months in office, he has placed himself at the very centre of the central conversations of our time: about wealth and poverty, fairness and justice, transparency, modernity, globalisation, the role of women, the nature of marriage, the temptations of power.''

Pope Francis says he isn't interested in praise or fame but in preaching and living the Gospel. If being person of the year, draws people to this very message then he welcomes being selected.
http://ti.me/1goGKWV

 

[Chris45]

Time magazine has selected Pope Francis as the 'Person of the Year 2013'

Excellent choice! And the cardinals seem to have got it right in voting for him.

Pope Francis certainly has a huge job ahead to repair the damage done by the recent scandals.

 

[Tink]

Merry Christmas everyone.

We went to the Carols by Candlelight last night, was absolutely beautiful and too many songs to share, but sharing this one..

With Christmas around the corner, the beauty in religion is shown around the globe, Carols by candlelight sang around the country, nativity scenes in their alcoves, so beautiful to see.
St Francis of Assisi is one of my favourite saints, he loved animals, and I often go to the St Francis Church in Melbourne.

I love this time of year, families and friends gathering together enjoying its true meaning -- love one another as I have loved you -- peace, love and blessings.
Making that time for people that are alone.
God taught us to treat people as we want to be treated, help one another, and through religion and Church, Gods meaning moves on through our children and all future generations, and through our community.

Merry Christmas.

 

[Ruby]

Sums up the Beauty in Religion, throughout History
2,000+ years

Tink, this is a piece of very biased, and in parts, fallacious, propaganda. And no, you are not bringing in balance - your view is quite unbalanced. The catholic church has NOT had 2000 years of unbroken leadership (was the term "shepherds"?). Have you not heard of the Schism? The history of the papacy is riddled with greed, corruption, cruelty, fraud........ For example, Popes and the hierarchy right down to bishops in the middle ages had mistresses, wielded enormous political power, lived in great wealth, frequently had people tortured and sent to their death.

There is no time in its history that the catholic church has been squeaky clean, or has not brought misery to many of its adherents.

How can anyone be so gullible! There may be beauty in religion, but it also has its dark and very dirty side.

 

[Tink]

Merry Christmas, Ruby

You know what the Pope said today, we should all strive for PEACE.
Atheists jump on board and follow Jesus teachings, the world would be a better place.

We all know the bad Ruby, but you can't say that the Church didn't contribute through the years for all the people misplaced in society, they don't run on survival of the fittest.

Throw the babies overboard, they aren't wanted, or the elderly, they are useless.
They will stand up for all life, no matter where they are.

The balance is there, as without religion, there was no moral compass, and as we can see in society its slowly taking a dive as people become more selfish and its all about themselves rather than having responsibilities and caring for others.

The Mental Health units are all booming with drugs and alcohol as we have a crisis with all these children that have no direction in life.

As I have said, Ruby, I am glad the Church is there standing up for family values.

 

[FxTrader]

Atheists jump on board and follow Jesus teachings, the world would be a better place.

Some of his teachings are useful along with many others over the centuries who have contributed much more to our understanding of the human condition, moral principles, ethics and philosophy than Jesus ever did. Your singular focus on Jesus as the only moral philosopher of significance is typical of Christians who believe the fantastic, unsubstantiated and totally unverifiable claim that he was "God in the flesh".

We all know the bad Ruby, but you can't say that the Church didn't contribute through the years for all the people misplaced in society, they don't run on survival of the fittest.

True, churches run on the money contributed by millions of gullible believers who are conned into believing the church is the best institution to dispense charity (usually after a heavy dose of religious indoctrination) to the needy.

Churches exist to perpetuate themselves and their influence using religious myth as the primary tool of control over their congregations. Their "survival" depends solely on the generosity those held captive by the religious fiction they peddle.

The balance is there, as without religion, there was no moral compass, and as we can see in society its slowly taking a dive as people become more selfish and its all about themselves rather than having responsibilities and caring for others.

Presumably you mean Christian religion here and not religion in general. Human society needs laws regarding how we treat each other to form a civil society. The argument that human society would descend into some amoral abyss without religion is utter nonsense. The basis of this argument is that the edicts of religious mythology of whatever variety should dictate how we all conduct our lives irrespective of whether or not the incredible claims made by the underlying religious doctrine are true or not. So then, religion is good and true because it's useful - ridiculous reasoning.

The Mental Health units are all booming with drugs and alcohol as we have a crisis with all these children that have no direction in life.

The religious indoctrination and brainwashing of children is an evil in itself and should be recognized as such in modern human societies. Telling a child they are evil by nature and fallen creatures who must pay homage to an imaginary God to redeem their sinful nature is more than mental abuse and insidious manipulation, it's a gross betrayal of the trust a child places in a parent to tell them the truth about what is myth and legend versus what is known, true and real.

 

[CanOz]

You know, I've got to agree that religion has shaped western morals to a great degree, for the better. Here in China there is no 'care' for the common man. Its like an absence of humanity...family is strong though.

I suspect this is because most of the growth of this nation took place without any religion as the center of the culture.

An example. My wife and i were returning home from dinner one night when we saw a car stopped in front of us a few hundred meters....as we got closer i saw there was a woman just off the road in front of the car, she was covered in blood from a head injury. My wife was driving as i had a couple of glasses of red with dinner so i instructed her to pull over in a way that would protect the injured woman from another car running her over, clearly a risk at that stage.

I ran over to see if the women was ok and my wife spotted a group of people talking off the side of the road and went over to find out what happened. The women had a gash in her scalp line somewhere and a badly injured leg. After a while i just held her and told her that everything was going to be ok...she was in shock and wanted to lay down. While my wife was talking to people, the driver of the car told my wife to tell me to leave the woman alone, she replied to him that i was a foreigner and "there would be no way that i would leave that woman alone"...

After a while the ambulance came and what looked like her boyfriend arrived on a scooter, who was covered in what looked like her blood, not his own. They'd had a scooter accident, hit the car and she took the full brunt and he'd gone to get help.

Riding back home in the car, i couldn't help but wonder with my wife why no-one had come the side of the women to keep her calm and safe while they'd gone for help. My wife explained that no-one wants to get involved and people are afraid the person will accuse them of being responsible for their injuries and ask for money...

Its sad though, that women could have been run over by a car that was not so observant as us that night. There at times, such as this when i wonder where the lack of care comes from...its part of the culture for sure.

Culture is the beliefs, values and attitudes of the people. Clearly their beliefs and moral compass has not been shaped by religion.

Then again, neither have my beliefs....but my parents parents had their beliefs and moral compass shaped by it and my friends and relatives as well...and that's been passed on, thankfully.

 

[FxTrader]

You know, I've got to agree that religion has shaped western morals to a great degree, for the better. Here in China there is no 'care' for the common man. Its like an absence of humanity...family is strong though.

Contributions to modern thought on ethics and morality have come from many sources over time including religious teachings. The idea though that without religion we would have "no moral compass" is a nonsense that must be challenged. Even if true, it would not validate any of the fantastic, magical claims made in iron-age scrolls. Morality is concept that varies from culture to culture and has a relative rather than absolute definition.

Personally, I find Asian culture family centric values to be more appealing than the focus on individualism in western societies. The real appeal of religion in my view is communitarianism it engenders among believers (and rejection of individualism), bringing them together to (hopefully) support one another based on shared values.

I have seen many examples in western societies of neglect for the welfare of others of the kind you describe here. Sadly, this is not a problem excusive to eastern cultures.

 

[CanOz]

I have seen many examples in western societies of neglect for the welfare of others of the kind you describe here. Sadly, this is not a problem excusive to eastern cultures.

I haven't seen it as much as I've seen it here in China. But then I'm a country boy and I've lived in rural areas all my life, perhaps i have a different view than those that live in cities...

 

[Ruby]

Merry Christmas, Ruby

And merry xmas to you too, Tink!

........ Atheists jump on board and follow Jesus teachings, the world would be a better place.

Such sweeping generalisations are your trade marks Tink! How dare you be so arrogant as to suggest that atheists don't follow the teachings of Jesus! What evidence do you have that connects atheism with any lack of morals? Which leads me to two further points:- Firstly, the world would be a better place if the catholic church followed Jesus' teachings; and secondly, the teachings of Jesus did not originate with him and are not "owned" by the Christian church. They are the guiding principles of all good people - and have been for thousands of years - long before Jesus was born - as others before me have pointed out. You might say that JC hijacked them from other ancient philosophies.

.......... you can't say that the Church didn't contribute through the years for all the people misplaced in society, they don't run on survival of the fittest.

I haven't said that, but that is only one part of the story. The church has also been responsible for untold misery and upheaval in society since its beginnings.

Throw the babies overboard, they aren't wanted, or the elderly, they are useless.

And your point here is........?

They will stand up for all life, no matter where they are.

Who? The catholic church? History will tell you otherwise.

The balance is there, as without religion, there was no moral compass, and as we can see in society its slowly taking a dive as people become more selfish and its all about themselves rather than having responsibilities and caring for others.

Throughout history people have been selfish, greedy and irresponsible - it has nothing to do with religion.

The Mental Health units are all booming with drugs and alcohol as we have a crisis with all these children that have no direction in life.

You would discover (if you did some research) that many of these people come from good Christian homes; and there are many mental health patients and drug addicts whose lives have been totally ruined by the abuse of catholic nuns and priests in church run schools and homes, and by the sexual abuse of paedophile priests. At the same time, many of society's finest, most balanced, community minded people have no religious affiliations.

As I have said, Ruby, I am glad the Church is there standing up for family values.

Hmmm! yes....... allowing children to be abused; taking children away from their families; forbidding couples to use contraception, and therefore forcing them to into poverty and untold misery through repeated pregnancies ...... all that family friendly stuff!!!

Tink, I am happy to accept that religion gives some of its adherents comfort, but please stop trying to white wash it. You have obviously been brainwashed but others among us haven't.

 

[Tink]

Ruby, this nation was built on Christianity and has shaped it to what it is today. I don't know where you get Jesus isn't a Christian.

If you cant see how much the Church contributed through the years, then that's your choice, and that video sums it up perfectly.

Its my choice to choose that I prefer the teachings of the Church.
I prefer what they stand for which is for all life, for the common good, and family values.

I am glad they are there standing up for what I believe in.