The Australian Greens party

wayneL said:

In the spirit od Voltairian apocrypha, I support their right of the Rhianninite faction to express their opinion; in fact I encourage it.

We need to be fully aware the type of people within the Greens.

From the naive and misinformed true greenies like Plod, to the subversive totalitarian Stalinists like Rhiannon.

Speak up Greens, speak up.

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Wayne, there are lot more Marxists in the Green camp like Lee Rhiannon....A lot more than people realize.....They are true Fabians and their motto is "WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING"....They use this Greening stunt as a shadow to cover their real agenda.

noco said:

Wayne, there are lot more Marxists in the Green camp like Lee Rhiannon....A lot more than people realize.....They are true Fabians and their motto is "WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING"....They use this Greening stunt as a shadow to cover their real agenda.

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You are both so out of touch with reality that it is a waste of time trying to talk common sense.

If all else fails try to discredit by attacking the individual.

Have a good festive.

noco said:

They use this Greening stunt as a shadow to cover their real agenda.

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Tarring all Greens with one brush...invalid.


De Natalie is a doctor and a farmer. I think he would have experience what it's like to run a business so I doubt if he's a gung-ho commo.

SirRumpole said:

Tarring all Greens with one brush...invalid.


De Natalie is a doctor and a farmer. I think he would have experience what it's like to run a business so I doubt if he's a gung-ho commo.

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I don't think every Greens member is a Commo, but Lee is a genuine Soviet relic. To the Greens discredit, they allowed her to enter the Parliament. She's about 40 years past her use by date.

Seriously, the number of Greens voters who are socialists, let alone Communists, would be small. From what I've observed they're upwardly mobile middle-class inner city types who worry more about the environment and social issues than who owns the means of production.

McLovin said:

I don't think every Greens member is a Commo, but Lee is a genuine Soviet relic. To the Greens discredit, they allowed her to enter the Parliament. She's about 40 years past her use by date.

Seriously, the number of Greens voters who are socialists, let alone Communists, would be small. From what I've observed they're upwardly mobile middle-class inner city types who worry more about the environment and social issues than who owns the means of production.

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They are leftists in the mold of Bernie Sanders. Feelgood politics, pathologically virtuous without thought of economic and social implications, ignorant of the law of unintended consequences and absolutely bereft of critical thinking.

It is these that will push the rest to the extreme right, as is starting to happen in Europe.

Very bad mojo.

Di Natalie, you know the doctor come farmer come politician, Di Natalie the one who underpaid workers on his farm......Di Natalie, the one who forgot to declare his assets.

Now he wants Aussie workers to work less hours......A 4 day week....Does that mean workers will get 20% less pay for taking one day out of their week.....The majority of workers want to work longer hours.

What a dumb a$$.
https://au.news.yahoo.com/a/34659258/greens-open-debate-on-four-day-week/#page1

noco said:

The majority of workers want to work longer hours.

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How do you know that ? Source ?

SirRumpole said:

How do you know that ? Source ?

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Read the link FFS ...You might just learn something about people wanting to work longer hours not shorter hours.

https://au.news.yahoo.com/a/34659258/greens-open-debate-on-four-day-week/#page1

noco said:

Read the link FFS ...You might just learn something about people wanting to work longer hours not shorter hours.

https://au.news.yahoo.com/a/34659258/greens-open-debate-on-four-day-week/#page1

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Did YOU read the link FFS ?

"We rightly talk about the 16 per cent of people who want to work more hours, but we never hear about the more than one-in-four Australians who want to work less," he told the National Press Club in Canberra on Wednesday.

Since when does 16 percent mean most ?

SirRumpole said:

Did YOU read the link FFS ?

"We rightly talk about the 16 per cent of people who want to work more hours, but we never hear about the more than one-in-four Australians who want to work less," he told the National Press Club in Canberra on Wednesday.

Since when does 16 percent mean most ?

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So do you think workers will be happy to accept 20% less in their wages on a 4 day working week?

noco said:

Read the link FFS ...You might just learn something about people wanting to work longer hours not shorter hours.

https://au.news.yahoo.com/a/34659258/greens-open-debate-on-four-day-week/#page1

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Are those wanting to work more hours currently not working enough hours? i.e. they're part-time workers.

Or do they want more hours because their already long hours aren't paying enough to cover their cost of living?

Working 50 to 70 hours a week. fark! An 8 hour day, at 5 days is 40 hours.

So there are people who work 6 to 7 days equivalent.

And they should work more?

There's this Uber exec in the US who praise an Uber driver who works real hard, so hard that she have to take a last drive to earn a few dollars while she was in labour! You know, in pain, about to give birth but life is so tough that she drop off a customer just before she drop herself off at the hospital to deliver her baby.

Isn't that great? A heart warming story of hard working people who's being screwed.

I like some of what the greens say but alot of it is not practical. Also they don't avoid the brush that tars all politicians in my mind and many others in the community.

I think they provide a balancing view although in my opinion Australia is a bit too far left in most areas and too right in a few areas but not as much. Interesting to also see that primary vote as been hovering around the 10% mark for a while.I think this is due to the extremity on many issues, if this extremity was lessens by a shift in society or by policy that could take alot of the votes from labor.

I like:

- Political donation reform
- Multinational company taxation reform
- Competition in the banking sector
- Removing subsidies on carbon intensive energy

I don't like

- Welfare increase and availability
- Subsidising green technology and other areas
-Increasing taxation to pay for increased spending
-Spending on non productive arts projects

The four day work week is an interesting discussion by I feel that alot of areas are legislated unfairly. I think penalty rates and opening hours is a classic example. If I want to open my shop, that is my shop I should be allowed to open it. If I want to pay someone penalty rates I can but that is my choice. If no one works then I will pay more. Workers are still protected by unfair dismissal and harassment and minimum wage, which even in the supermarket, the wage was higher that that. etc

Sometimes on sunday there would be hardly anyone working and I would get paid $40-50 an hour but other people would miss out. Also shops were closed early if open at all which was ridiculous.


I think discussion is good but legislating by force is a step to far although given the advance of technology it will come up more often as labour is replaced by robots and eventually in a time far far away. Hardly anyone will work at all. That is my prediction

luutzu said:

Are those wanting to work more hours currently not working enough hours? i.e. they're part-time workers.

Or do they want more hours because their already long hours aren't paying enough to cover their cost of living?

Working 50 to 70 hours a week. fark! An 8 hour day, at 5 days is 40 hours.

So there are people who work 6 to 7 days equivalent.

And they should work more?

There's this Uber exec in the US who praise an Uber driver who works real hard, so hard that she have to take a last drive to earn a few dollars while she was in labour! You know, in pain, about to give birth but life is so tough that she drop off a customer just before she drop herself off at the hospital to deliver her baby.

Isn't that great? A heart warming story of hard working people who's being screwed.

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Many young people over stretch then selves when buying a house on a mortgaga and and buying house hold goods on HP just to keep up with Jones next door....They also have to have a car, most likely on time payment, so this some of the reasons they have to take a second job and on top of that they probably want to have kids as well.......In my day, you could borrow money for a house on 25% deposit but if you did not have the money to buy house hold stuff you did with out until you could afford it......The problem today is money is too easy and young couples wonder why they get into financial trouble.

Now back to Richard Di Natalie and his 4 day week....None of you lefties are saying it is OK to drop the wages 20% if one day a week is taken away to give people a more balanced life style.

WHAT IS YOUR ANSWER WITHOUT BEATING AROUND THE BUSH WITH MORE DIVERSIONS?

noco said:

Di Natalie, you know the doctor come farmer come politician, Di Natalie the one who underpaid workers on his farm......Di Natalie, the one who forgot to declare his assets.

Now he wants Aussie workers to work less hours......A 4 day week....Does that mean workers will get 20% less pay for taking one day out of their week.....The majority of workers want to work longer hours.

What a dumb a$$.
https://au.news.yahoo.com/a/34659258/greens-open-debate-on-four-day-week/#page1

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It's not so dumb as it seems at first sight. In fact it may be the only way we can have a balanced society as more jobs get lost to automation in the future as we are being warned about.

This is just a generalisation, but consider the following.

If everyone worked 20% less per week, then potentially we could employ 20% more to make up the difference eliminating involuntary unemployment and under-employment.

People's salaries should be reduced 20% so that there isn't an extra cost to manufacture or to provide services.

But will people have 20% less take home pay? Probably not and possibly they may have as much as they do currently.

If taxation no longer has to cater for all those currently on unemployment benefits and other welfare benefits (that come with unemployment), there will be a huge drop in tax requirements. Also, when one considers some of the other attributes of high unemployment such as crime levels, petty vandalism, medical related issues (alcoholism, depression), other social issues, etc., there could be considerable additional tax savings. If the saved tax leads to a significant reduction in tax rates for individuals, it is possible that people may end up with a comparable take home pay even though working 20% less hours.

I know the above is a generalisation and one can think of exceptions to everything, but there is nothing sacrosanct about a 5 day working week that requires it to be the norm forever.

Many often bring up the fact that increased automation has not led to increased leisure time for the population as it should do. But the increased leisure time is there, it is just that it is distributed wrongly. Instead of full employment being maintained and everyone getting more leisure time by working less hours, we allocate 100% of the additional leisure time to just 20% (say) of the population in the form of full unemployment or part unemployment (which requires increased taxes as described above) and 0% to the other 80% (who are worse off as they have to pay the increased taxes needed to cater for the 20% unemployed).

It is certainly an idea worth exploring. That and the idea of a minimum fixed income for everyone (I think Finland are trialing that). The latter has many advantages too in relation to maintaining an incentive to work to earn additional income (whereas unemployment benefits often discourage people seeking work) and potentially reducing so many social ills.

I have normally little time for The Greens, but this is certainly an issue worth exploring, particularly as we seem to be on the cusp of a robotic explosion.

noco said:

Many young people over stretch then selves when buying a house on a mortgaga and and buying house hold goods on HP just to keep up with Jones next door....They also have to have a car, most likely on time payment, so this some of the reasons they have to take a second job and on top of that they probably want to have kids as well.......In my day, you could borrow money for a house on 25% deposit but if you did not have the money to buy house hold stuff you did with out until you could afford it......The problem today is money is too easy and young couples wonder why they get into financial trouble.

Now back to Richard Di Natalie and his 4 day week....None of you lefties are saying it is OK to drop the wages 20% if one day a week is taken away to give people a more balanced life style.

WHAT IS YOUR ANSWER WITHOUT BEATING AROUND THE BUSH WITH MORE DIVERSIONS?

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Why wouldn't it be OK to drop wages when people work less hours?

Though that does not mean their hourly wages ought to be drop too, does it?

People are working longer hours mainly because their hourly rate can't cover their living costs. Why is it a great thing when business owners earn more and more at the expense of workers getting less and less pay?

Right wing people do work too right?

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Yea I know right? Dam young hippies... wanting a car to drive around like the train can't take them to work anywhere or something. Then wanting a stable home with proper roof over their heads... and also starting a family!

What have they been smoking. Dream on.

bellenuit said:

I have normally little time for The Greens, but this is certainly an issue worth exploring, particularly as we seem to be on the cusp of a robotic explosion.

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Very good post , I agree.

Company profits are going up, wages are going down. We need to redistribute some of the cash flow so that consumers can continue spending and keep the companies in business.

SirRumpole said:

Very good post , I agree.

Company profits are going up, wages are going down. We need to redistribute some of the cash flow so that consumers can continue spending and keep the companies in business.

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Typical leftie approach....The rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer but you don't mention the number of those who have gone bankrupt trying to make a dollar.
You don't think of the effort a business owner put into that business with long hours of work...You don't hear too much about the suicides as a result of a business failure.

You who have never been in business sit in your glass houses and look out and think to yourselves, thank goodness I worked for the PS and now living on my fat PS pension as do politicians..

Have a read and say to yourself, I am pleased I have not been in business to tolerate employee complaints, worry about green tape, red tape, pay roll tax, GST, income tax, the long working hours many of us have to endure after the workers have gone home to their families at 5 pm when sometimes I would get home for dinner at 8 or 9 o'clock at night. and all the other crap one has to put up with...Having had 4 business of my own and managing one for 28 years, I believe I can speak with some authority....I made money, I lost money and made money again with plenty of grey hairs to prove it.

So next time you say company profits are up and wages are down and WE need to redistribute some of those profits, think hard again......Who in the hell are WE?.....you and the unions?

http://www.smh.com.au/business/rising-number-of-australian-companies-going-bust-20160705-gpywr4.html

luutzu said:

Isn't that great? A heart warming story of hard working people who's being screwed.

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As she was about to give birth I would say you got that right.

SirRumpole said:

Very good post , I agree.

Company profits are going up, wages are going down. We need to redistribute some of the cash flow so that consumers can continue spending and keep the companies in business.

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Yeah buy shares if you want some profit sharing.
We have some of the richest and well paid employees on the planet.

moXJO said:

Yeah buy shares if you want some profit sharing.
We have some of the richest and well paid employees on the planet.

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They are becoming less rich and more unemployed all the time.