Amongst all the bluster and hyperventilation is this,This spying business is a storm in a teacup that will soon blow over.
We want trade with Indonesia (but could get by OK without it).
They want trade with us. They also want the money we throw at them in foreign aid.
After a tense month or two things will return to business as usual.
The media will be most disappointed to lose a relatively trivial issue to blow out of all proportion.
Indonesia's top government ministers are now locked in a meeting with Mr Yudhoyono and the now-recalled ambassador to Australia, discussing the state of the relationship.
Arriving at the palace, the senior minister responsible for cooperation asylum seekers, Djoko Suyanto, indicated some agreements with Australia may not be reviewed if they are mutually beneficial.
Indonesia cutting ties with Australia
When you look at the calibre and politics of those who think Australia should grovel to Indonesia, then Abbott must be on the right track...ABC commentators, Fairfax commentators, the Greens and now the biggest joke of all, Bob Katter. Even the Opposition (except Shorten) aren't naive enough to ask for an apology.
And WHY NOT on the head of state and his wife, if they are silly enough to discuss state secrets on their mobiles?
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/na...p-with-australia/story-fni0xqrb-1226763788127
That's the point I was attempting to make in my post above although perhaps I didn't make it clear.Doc, it all a political nonsense by Indonesia who say "we don't spy on Australia"....Of course they do and it has been proven in the past.
Arriving at the palace, the senior minister responsible for cooperation asylum seekers, Djoko Suyanto, indicated some agreements with Australia may not be reviewed if they are mutually beneficial.
Chris Richardson's view on the debt ceiling from "The World Today":
This is all just the usual political theatrics on both sides. Labor have nowhere to go on this. They have tacitly admitted this by asking for justification of the $500billion by Treasury. Martin Parkinson will be duly wheeled out, will say all the right words, and the whole silly argument will be history.
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...ecretary-martin-parkinson-20131120-2xuzc.html
The Treasury has gone further, advising the government to consider abandoning Australia's debt limit.
If you go to bed earlier, you might stop having those dreams about Kevin Rudd.Rudd has turned out to have quite a bit of a sting in his tail!
If you go to bed earlier, you might stop having those dreams about Kevin Rudd.
It's not Kevin Rudd.you haven't done the homework to learn what actually makes the world go around.
Speaking in Jakarta today, an angry Mr Yudhoyono said Indonesia was suspending cooperation on people-smuggling issues, including combined maritime patrols.
And he said he was writing to Prime Minister Tony Abbott to demand an official explanation on why Australian spies monitored his phone and those of members of his inner circle, including his wife.
Mr Abbott later told the House of Representatives that he would be writing back "swiftly, fully and courteously" because "that is overwhelmingly in the interests of both our countries."
When listening to the ABC radio news yesterday at the top of the hour (6pm), the SBY spying claims was a significant story but within it there was mention of when.Another BTW:
Opposition Leader Bill Shorten said he supported Mr Abbott's stance, saying: "This is indeed a 'Team Australia' moment.
Another BTW:
It is interesting that Pravda is implying (by omission more than anything) that our Tones is somehow culpable in the spy controversy.
And Tones has had the good grace not to point out that all this occurred under Labor... not that Dullard/KRudd might have known, but imo there should be so bipartisan cooperation in handling this.
Well, the proverbial **** has hit the fan now!
Indonesia will call back its ambassador to Australia and "review" Australian diplomatic positions in Jakarta as anger rises in Indonesia over revelations that Australia tapped the phone of President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono and his wife.
Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/world/indones...pying-claim-20131118-2xr5x.html#ixzz2kzVFLsIP
Given everyone knows a certain amount of spying goes on and...
Last week during his visit to Canberra, Vice-President Boediono said the Indonesian public was concerned about the previous spying revelations and called for a truce on using information gathered by spying against each other.
"I think we must look forward to come to some arrangement which guarantees that intelligence information from each side is not used against the other. There must be a system,"' he said.
It would seem quite obvious that Abbott and Bishop would not call a truce and promise not to do it again in the future.
Documents released by whistleblower Edward Snowden reveal that in 2009 Australia's Defence Signals Directorate targeted the personal mobile numbers of both Dr Yudhoyono and his wife, Kristiani Herawati, as well as eight others in the President's inner circle, including the Vice-President.
So, for the Aus voter, the big unanswered question is who, knew what and when.
Did some sort of covert US intelligence get embedded in our intelligence service during Howards close friendship with George Bush and the war on terrorism, that Labor didn't know about... or is Labor responsible?
Former Coalition government foreign minister Alexander Downer said the revelations were damaging to Australia.
"It's a shocking situation in which Australia will pay a big price," Sky News cited Mr Downer as saying.
Is Downer speaking from experience and or knowledge?
No doubt it will blow over in time, but why couldn't they come to a truce? Was spying used in the 'turn back the boats' campaign causing that to blow out to be a big a thorn in the side? Not good for trade relations improving any time soon.
On the spying issue - it seems the damaging allegations happened in 2009 when Rudd was PM. Why would Fairfax and the ABC try to pin this on Abbott unless they are trying to undermine any progress Abbott has made on Asylum seekers? And now it's another massive mess left by labor for the Coalition to clean up.
How labor supporters can tolerate let alone support this sort of behaviour is beyond me.
Read more (bold above is mine):
http://www.smh.com.au/world/indones...stralia-over-spying-claim-20131118-2xr5x.html
What, Fairfax and the abc trying to pin it on Abbott!?
Someone better have a yarn to Rupert about his papers dareing to run the same story about spying and Indonesia withdrawing their ambassador. Is Rupert and News "trying to undermine any progress Abbott has made on Asylum seekers" too?
http://www.news.com.au/national/jak...er-spying-claims/story-fncynjr2-1226762823093
:thankyou:Not laying the blame at Howard feet... just pointing out that, Indo has closer affinity to Labor than Lib, and that Howard tested their tolerance (rightly so over Timor) before Abbott... hence my point about the legacy of earlier politics that Abbott seems to have underestimated before 'testing' them again.
Labor seemed to have a better repour and knew how far they could push Indo without sacrificing trade too much... well at least until Gillard lost the plot.
Anyone thinking they know better than someone as well respected as Chris Richardson, whose view was echoed in Martin Parkinson's comments today should do a bit of research into the background of why the so called debt ceiling is unnecessary.
Doc, it all a political nonsense by Indonesia who say "we don't spy on Australia"....Of course they do and it has been proven in the past.
Why should Abbott apologise for something that was susposed to have happened in 2009.....It is a political stunt no more and no less in an attempt to embarrass the Abbott Government.....it is a political stunt by the Indonesians in an attempt have Abbott cower to their whims and whinges....Stand your ground TA.
When you look at the calibre and politics of those who think Australia should grovel to Indonesia, then Abbott must be on the right track...ABC commentators, Fairfax commentators, the Greens and now the biggest joke of all, Bob Katter. Even the Opposition (except Shorten) aren't naive enough to ask for an apology.
And WHY NOT on the head of state and his wife, if they are silly enough to discuss state secrets on their mobiles?]
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