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explod said:
Not a "FACT" at all, it is a well held view of the right who can everyone with a different or opposing perspectve.

I requested your description of "a red" a few weeks back, but still no answer.
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The RED is for communism and that is why they call the Greens the watermelon party.

GREEN outside and RED inside.

And all this time I thought you knew that.

 
noco said:
The RED is for communism and that is why they call the Greens the watermelon party.

GREEN outside and RED inside.

And all this time I thought you knew that.
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Tell that to the increasing Green membership in Sydney who come from the right wing elite of the Liberal Party. On labour left wingers I would agree with Red but you sling off with wild words out of context regarding anything or anyone who will not bow under your arrogant thumb.

Now answer my question about the ABC?
 
We really do need to lift the discourse of the the thread, if we are going to degenerate to 'Reds and Greenie's', Julia will roll in her grave.IMO

Let's try and keep the debate, to sensible, thought out argument.:xyxthumbs

Otherwise, I for one won't be involved in the forum, it had robust meaningful debate.

If it degenerates, we all lose.

Noco, I'm sure that not all Labor and Green politicians are communists.

Also Explod, I'm sure all Greenies, don't give a rat's ar$e about the enviroment. More likely they are concerned about their public persona, and the vote pulling power of it.

So let's keep it real, sensible and relevant..
This is the Abbott thread.
 
noco said:
It is a well known fact that the ABC is controlled by the Green/Labor left wing socialists and that is where the bias towards the Labor come in.
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Who in particular and how does he/she feel about you looking over his/her shoulder at the voting booth?


James Spigelman
Cheryl Bart
Jane Bennett
Peter Lewis
Simon Mordant
Matt Peacock
Mark Scott
Steven Skala
Dr Fiona Stanley
 
Tisme said:
Who in particular and how does he/she feel about you looking over his/her shoulder at the voting booth?


James Spigelman
Cheryl Bart
Jane Bennett
Peter Lewis
Simon Mordant
Matt Peacock
Mark Scott
Steven Skala
Dr Fiona Stanley
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Not to mention Janet Albrechtsen, well known right wing commentator.

Wouldn't surprise me if Andrew Bolt or Alan Jones get appointed to the board soon.
:rolleyes:
 
Another stupid Abbott/Pyne idea rejected by sensible people

Students praise UWA for ditching controversial $4m Bjorn Lomborg Consensus Centre think tank



Audio: Listen to Jessica Kidd's report (AM)

"The fact that we had international partners saying they wanted to pull out because of the association. So the reputational damage was probably the main complaint.

"There are a number of people who take issue with Lomborg's methodology, and with Lomborg's sort of research standing.

"The example that I use is there was a unit at UWA that used to use Lomborg's book as an example of bad science, and what not to do for students, and so a primary concern was the fact that he would be allowed to be associated with UWA when we hold our first year students who are 17, right out of high school, to a higher standard than that."

Education Minister Christopher Pyne has told newspaper journalists he is seeking legal advice about the university's decision to hand back the funding, but he said he would find another university to host the consensus centre.

It's absolutely not censorship, it's about the academics being really concerned about academic standards and the integrity of the institution.
Gabe Gooding, National Tertiary Education Union

Mr Pyne on Friday tweeted that UWA's decision marked "a sad day for academic freedom".

Agriculture Minister Barnaby Joyce said the decision did not give university students enough credit, to decide for themselves which facts are relevant.

"I like an exciting world where you can hear challenging points of view, even if you disagree with them," he said.

"Universities, they're supposed to be the crucible of allowing people to investigate and ponder an idea and come up with their own conclusions."

Meanwhile, National Tertiary Education Union's WA division secretary, Gabe Gooding, said members would be relieved and rejected suggestions that Dr Lomborg's views were being censored.

"Those people who were particularly supportive of it will be painting this as censorship but it's absolutely not censorship, it's about the academics being really concerned about academic standards and the integrity of the institution," Ms Gooding said.

"It's never been about shutting down an alternative view."

Labor's higher education spokesman Senator Kim Carr said the Government's support for the centre was politically motivated and the grant for the think tank was an inappropriate use of public money at a time when other universities and research institutes have had their budgets cut.

"What this government has to understand is that the Australian research program is not the plaything of individual ministers, nor a slush fund for the Liberal Party," he said.

"This is clearly not an appropriate way to fund research in Australia.

"We need to protect the integrity of the research program to ensure that it is not subject to the political fortunes of individual ministers or the political prejudices of the Prime Minister."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-05-...for-ditching-bjorn-lomborg-think-tank/6457210
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sptrawler said:
We really do need to lift the discourse of the the thread, if we are going to degenerate to 'Reds and Greenie's', Julia will roll in her grave.IMO

Let's try and keep the debate, to sensible, thought out argument.:xyxthumbs

Otherwise, I for one won't be involved in the forum, it had robust meaningful debate.

If it degenerates, we all lose.

Noco, I'm sure that not all Labor and Green politicians are communists.

Also Explod, I'm sure all Greenies, don't give a rat's ar$e about the enviroment. More likely they are concerned about their public persona, and the vote pulling power of it.

So let's keep it real, sensible and relevant..
This is the Abbott thread.
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SP, I am deeply concerned at the subtle way the Green/Labor party are going about their ideology of democratic socialism...In my mind, democratic socialism is all about central control and they start off by controlling the media, particularly the ABC....Where ever possible the ABC will discredit the Liberal Party and Fairfax is right up there with them.
The majority of the Greens and the Labor left are members of the Fabian society which is an off shoot of communism.
Democratic socialism do not believe in free enterprise and profits are a dirty word, so Labor do all they can to tax business as high as they can which results in business taking their investments overseas....Is it any wonder business Chanel their money to Singapore where the corporate tax rate is only 17%.....They have done it legally and I do believe Hockey has endeavored to plug the hole.
 
Fundamentally, it seems reasonable to me that if you do business in Australia then you pay tax in Australia in relation to that business activity. I don't see anything wrong with that concept as such.

Where it gets complicated is with the rate of tax applied and the means of collection.

What rate? 17% seems rather low in view of the overall financial situation, rates of taxation on other things (eg individual income tax) and society's expectations of government. But at the other end, we don't want to end up with something ridiculous like 50% or more. :2twocents
 
sptrawler said:
We really do need to lift the discourse of the the thread, if we are going to degenerate to 'Reds and Greenie's', Julia will roll in her grave.IMO

Let's try and keep the debate, to sensible, thought out argument.:xyxthumbs

Otherwise, I for one won't be involved in the forum, it had robust meaningful debate.

If it degenerates, we all lose.

Noco, I'm sure that not all Labor and Green politicians are communists.

Also Explod, I'm sure all Greenies, don't give a rat's ar$e about the enviroment. More likely they are concerned about their public persona, and the vote pulling power of it.

So let's keep it real, sensible and relevant..
This is the Abbott thread.
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SP, although a bit off beat of this thread, here is something to digest regarding the Fabian society, what they stand for and some of the notable Labor people who are members...I repeat this list are the notables......I know for a fact the likes of Labor MP'S Chris Bowen, Tony Burke and Jenny Macklin are also members of the Fabian society......The Greens are all members of the Fabians and use the environment as a front.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Fabian_Society

The Australian Fabians have historically had close ties with the Australian Labor Party, also known as the ALP. This is evidenced by the number of past ALP prime ministers, federal ministers and state premiers who were active members of the Australian Fabians while in office. The role of patron of the Australian Fabians is currently vacant, but ceremonially filled by former Australian prime minister, the late Gough Whitlam.[3] This is a temporary arrangement and the position will be filled when an appropriate person to fund and uphold the society's values is found.

The Australian Fabians have had a significant influence on public policy development in Australia since the Second World War,[citation needed] with many of its members having held influential political offices in Australian governments.[citation needed]

A list of the notables.


Gough Whitlam (ALP Prime Minister 1972–75)
Bob Hawke (ALP Prime Minister 1983–1991)
Paul Keating (ALP Prime Minister 1991–1996)
John Cain (ALP Premier of Victoria)
Jim Cairns (ALP Deputy Prime Minister)
Don Dunstan (ALP Premier of South Australia)
Geoff Gallop (ALP Premier of Western Australia)
Neville Wran (ALP Premier of NSW 1976–86)
Frank Crean (ALP Deputy Prime Minister)
Arthur Calwell (ALP Former Leader)
Race Mathews (ALP MHR and Victorian MLA)
John Faulkner (ALP Senator and National President)
Julia Gillard (ALP Australia's first female Prime Minister)
John Lenders (ALP Treasurer of Victoria)
Clarrie Martin (ALP Attorney General of New South Wales)
Tanya Plibersek (Federal member for Sydney (ALP) 1998 - )
Henry Hyde Champion (Journalist)
Nettie Palmer (Writer)
Charles Strong (Clergyman)
Charles Marson (Clergyman)
David Charleston (Trade Unionist)
Bernard O'Dowd (Writer)
Phillip Adams (Broadcaster)
 
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If one wants to win the argument yet not have the answers then the slinging of mud seems to be effective here.

This thread is touching on winning the argument being uppermost, almost to the non-objective.

Thown up has been the "fabians, lefties, commos and reds" as the opposing threats to the Libs and society itself.

One could equally on the right side of politics, introduce the Freemasons, the Carbonara and the banking system ie Rothchilds who are the real ones controlling all Governments.

Allthough being aware of the above, it is my view in discussions that we respect each others different point of view so that we may learn of where we are at here, on the ground, today in society. I for example am not involved in some undermining dark group, but just wanting to live in harmony with the people (of all persuasions) whithin my own suburb and community.

Lets talk of ideas, where are the jobs coming from, can we help the poor and business alike, can we stop our inventions from going offshore, would we be better to create jobs with a livable pay rate for the unemployed, and so on.

Can we be objective.
 
explod said:
If one wants to win the argument yet not have the answers then the slinging of mud seems to be effective here.

This thread is touching on winning the argument being uppermost, almost to the non-objective.

Thown up has been the "fabians, lefties, commos and reds" as the opposing threats to the Libs and society itself.

One could equally on the right side of politics, introduce the Freemasons, the Carbonara and the banking system ie Rothchilds who are the real ones controlling all Governments.

Allthough being aware of the above, it is my view in discussions that we respect each others different point of view so that we may learn of where we are at here, on the ground, today in society. I for example am not involved in some undermining dark group, but just wanting to live in harmony with the people (of all persuasions) whithin my own suburb and community.

Lets talk of ideas, where are the jobs coming from, can we help the poor and business alike, can we stop our inventions from going offshore, would we be better to create jobs with a livable pay rate for the unemployed, and so on.

Can we be objective.
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Slinging "MUD"????????...I don't see any mud, what I see is fact and you when it is pointed out to you, you do not like it because it is a slur on Labor..

Where are the fobs coming from?????????????
Certainly not from the Queensland government...Palsazczuk is destroying jobs in Queensland.
One of her Ministers stated this week that miners have no right to mine in Queensland.

Private enterprise is the work engine of the country...Destroy their incentive with higher taxes and red and green tape like the Labor did and you will have higher unemployment....Governments don't create jobs except in the PS which normally gets over loaded under Labor.

More frontline jobs are at threat under the Palaszczuk-Gordon Government.
The LGAQ is today warning 1500 frontline jobs are at threat because of State Government moves to unionise councils.
This follows the sacking of 65 frontline health workers yesterday. It comes just hours after Energy Minister Mark Bailey told parliament – “I regard all of our staff in the public sector as frontline staff. We will defend them.”

The only job the Palaszczuk-Gordon government has saved this week, is Billy Gordon’s, the Member for Cook.

Queensland’s unemployment rate is 0.5% above the national average, as Labor’s infrastructure freeze continues.More frontline jobs are at threat under the Palaszczuk-Gordon Government.
The LGAQ is today warning 1500 frontline jobs are at threat because of State Government moves to unionise councils.
This follows the sacking of 65 frontline health workers yesterday. It comes just hours after Energy Minister Mark Bailey told parliament – “I regard all of our staff in the public sector as frontline staff. We will defend them.”

The only job the Palaszczuk-Gordon government has saved this week, is Billy Gordon’s, the Member for Cook.
Queensland’s unemployment rate is 0.5% above the national average, as Labor’s infrastructure freeze continues.
 
Smurf1976 said:
Fundamentally, it seems reasonable to me that if you do business in Australia then you pay tax in Australia in relation to that business activity. I don't see anything wrong with that concept as such.

Where it gets complicated is with the rate of tax applied and the means of collection.

What rate? 17% seems rather low in view of the overall financial situation, rates of taxation on other things (eg individual income tax) and society's expectations of government. But at the other end, we don't want to end up with something ridiculous like 50% or more. :2twocents
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Maybe get rid of all company profits tax and just tax the distribution to shareholders at their marginal rate.

No expenses or deductions to worry about for the tax department and would be a saving on compliance costs for business.

Overseas distributions of dividend would be taxed at say 30%, equal to the old corporate tax. Of course you would get shareholders moving offshore to reduce their tax, but they will at least pay their fair share.
 
The childcare stuff is a good idea but they need to go harder on the oldies:

The Abbott government has unveiled its long-promised childcare package pledging more money for many families from 2017 but stripping others, such as stay at home mothers, of nearly all of the childcare assistance they currently receive unless they meet a new more rigorous work activity test.

The plan would see some parents substantially better off with a claimed $1500 a year average advantage - a sweetener for a budget to released on Tuesday that was supposed to continue the task of deficit reduction, while being otherwise dull and routine.

The model introduces a means tested single payment and a new childcare card in the $3.5 billion package in which childcare centres are paid directly by government for the baseline costs of service provision.

http://www.smh.com.au/business/fede...eveals-childcare-reforms-20150509-ggy4y6.html
 
Here's one way that tax is being avoided. The very sort of thing that needs to be clamped down on well before we start raising the rates for those actually paying tax or throwing those in genuine need on the scrap heap.

http://www.watoday.com.au/business/...ler-of-the-highest-order-20150509-ggwvm3.html

appears to be merrily making after-tax net profits from lending to its subsidiaries. Put another way, it is getting foreign taxpayers to pay for its third-party loans. There is $15 billion in related-party loans.
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I watched Bowen on the ABC today, it was quite interesting, he suggested the government needs to apply strict fiscal management.
Actually the whole spiel was weird, I wondered why the presenter didn't ask him, why Labor were so inept for six years.

It would appear Howard, Costello and Abbott, Hockey are to blame for our situation.
The Labor years, are seemingly being removed, from our history.:rolleyes:

At street level, my mates who work for the council, are worried we are going to end up like Greece.

The next election, will see a big majority, one way or the other.IMO
 
sptrawler said:
Here we go go again, the Government needs to tighten middle class welfare, Labor want to torpedo it.

http://www.theage.com.au/national/f...ss-out-in-childcare-plan-20150510-ggye85.html

The budget keeps blowing out.:D

The problem is compounding up, and up, and up.

It won't be too many years, before the debt payments exceed our capacity, to meet our obligations.
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Both parties have their blinkers.

labor doesn't want reasonable changes to the pension.

Liberals don't want to touch the sacrosanct super tax concessions.

Labor wont support an increase in fuel excise, even though it would marginally help with the environment.

Liberals foiled Labor's attempts to stop the car FBT rort.

Neither party is particularly coherent in their economic claims.

The question is why is it OK for the Liberals to bring in a $45B deficit, when Labor was being howled down for less? Hockey now talks not about reducing the absolute deficit, but just stabilising it as a % of GDP ie as long as the deficit increases at a slower rate than GDP growth that's OK. If Labor was proposing this I'm sure there's be plenty of vitriolic comments on this forum.
 
Latest budget = what emergency!!?? Actually we are such good shape we can run a bigger deficit, no probs.

I'm starting to think Abbott and his fawning ministers might have sold his adoring fans a pup insofar as the dire warnings of our fiscal and financial affairs. :rolleyes: The solution all along was simply to take away the undeserved freebies being given to the poor, needy and lower income earners ... you know that humanity anchor around all our collective necks who spoil an otherwise hard working latte lifestyle followed by a deserved early, tax payer subsidised, retirement. If only the no hopers would go out and get a job and pay tax so we didn't need to suffer.

Apparently governance is a three year cycle :

First year is a honeymoon period where you do nothing but blame the previous administration as an excuse for doing that same nothing;

Second year is for bringing in the serious ambit control measures that apparently should have been done urgently done by the previous administration, but required a gap year to work out by the same highly paid public servants who recommended the spend in the first place;

Third year is to go into election mode and grease pork barrels in readiness for the tough fight to keep the previous administration from wrecking all the good work done in the last three years, come election time.
 
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