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noco said:
These illegals have been a problem for Indonesia for years and they have been quite happy to pass on the problem to Australia by turning a blind eye to the people smugglers. It is also a fact that the Indonesian police are actully assisting the smugglers to load their boats with human cargo.
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Not just the Indonesian police, the Indonesian army as well apparently......one of the English speaking survivors of the latest boat wreck off Java said that Indonesian soldiers escorted the people on to the boat.

Interesting to hear one of the survivors blaming the Australian government for what happened!
Why should our navy be expected to come running to the aid of a boat load of illegals that gets into trouble only a short distance out from Indonesia.
It should be the Indonesian authorities who respond – after all, it’s them who allow the boats to leave Indonesia despite knowing full well that they’re engaged in people smuggling.

Corruption is rife in Indonesia, from the police to the army to government officials. No wonder they object to the Australian government’s moves to put a stop to their lucrative little game. Not only would they lose a nice little money spinner, but the illegal immigrants would become Indonesia’s very expensive problem instead of being able to just palm them off on to us.
 
bunyip said:
Not just the Indonesian police, the Indonesian army as well apparently......one of the English speaking survivors of the latest boat wreck off Java said that Indonesian soldiers escorted the people on to the boat.

Interesting to hear one of the survivors blaming the Australian government for what happened!
Why should our navy be expected to come running to the aid of a boat load of illegals that gets into trouble only a short distance out from Indonesia.
It should be the Indonesian authorities who respond – after all, it’s them who allow the boats to leave Indonesia despite knowing full well that they’re engaged in people smuggling.

Corruption is rife in Indonesia, from the police to the army to government officials. No wonder they object to the Australian government’s moves to put a stop to their lucrative little game. Not only would they lose a nice little money spinner, but the illegal immigrants would become Indonesia’s very expensive problem instead of being able to just palm them off on to us.
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I just posted a similar comment on the thread "ASYLUM IMMIGRANTS-GREEN LIGHT"
http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/...ving_a_boat_now_lying_on_an_indonesian_beach/

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bunyip said:
Not just the Indonesian police, the Indonesian army as well apparently......one of the English speaking survivors of the latest boat wreck off Java said that Indonesian soldiers escorted the people on to the boat.

Interesting to hear one of the survivors blaming the Australian government for what happened!
Why should our navy be expected to come running to the aid of a boat load of illegals that gets into trouble only a short distance out from Indonesia.
It should be the Indonesian authorities who respond – after all, it’s them who allow the boats to leave Indonesia despite knowing full well that they’re engaged in people smuggling.

Corruption is rife in Indonesia, from the police to the army to government officials. No wonder they object to the Australian government’s moves to put a stop to their lucrative little game. Not only would they lose a nice little money spinner, but the illegal immigrants would become Indonesia’s very expensive problem instead of being able to just palm them off on to us.
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I just posted a similar comment on the thread "ASYLUM IMMIGRANTS-GREEN LIGHT"
http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/abbott_blamed_for_not_saving_a_boat_now_lying_on_an_indonesian_beach/
 
bunyip said:
Corruption is rife in Indonesia, from the police to the army to government officials. No wonder they object to the Australian government’s moves to put a stop to their lucrative little game. Not only would they lose a nice little money spinner, but the illegal immigrants would become Indonesia’s very expensive problem instead of being able to just palm them off on to us.
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This has occurred because a more compassionate society as we are allowed ourselves to soften the sovereignty of our borders. It was our compassion to help these people that has caused so many deaths at sea, a great deal many of them children.

Regardless on the flip side even if we "allowed" people smuggling to continue many people and children would continue to die at sea as authorities are corrupt enough to want to make a fast buck.

We simply cannot rescue them in time.
 
sydboy007 said:
It's more the double standards that gets me. The witch hunt of Slipper and Thompson and then the I've paid the money back so it's OK.

I just don't understand the reasoning behind going to a friends wedding and looking for some sort of excuse to bill it to tax payers. Even if there's some small legitimate reason, it's such a bad look

Even worse, there doesn't seem to be anything in place to easily show person X made claim on Y date for this reason. While Joyce should be able to provide the info, the parliament systems should be able to provide the information easily or it needs to be set up so that it does. Joyce should have been able to log in and provide the information pretty much instantly.
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Slipper and Thomson were not witch hunts. They are facing actual problems of their own making.

Labor I suspect won't campaign too hard on this one. It's a potential can of worms for both sides.

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/...ents/shorten_drove_our_dollars_a_lot_further/
 
drsmith said:
Slipper and Thomson were not witch hunts. They are facing actual problems of their own making.

Labor I suspect won't campaign too hard on this one. It's a potential can of worms for both sides.

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/...ents/shorten_drove_our_dollars_a_lot_further/
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There's the hypocrisy from both sides.

From the information that's been provided Brandis broke the rules. There should be more consequences than just paying the money back.

If you mix pleasure and business the ATO expects you to claim proportionately. Brandis seems to think 10 minutes talking about how to carry on the crusade against Labor, somehow makes up for the hours of fun he had at the wedding.

I don't understand how Joyce could claim a comm car to the hotel he stayed at for the wedding. It wasn't on any official business.

brandis was the holier than thou of the LNP during their time in opposition. If this had been someone from the ALP what do you think he'd be saying right now? i dobut he'd accept paying back the money would be all that is required.
 
IFocus said:
Neither will be the pursuit of Brandis and Joyce resignations from the front bench............
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Not sure of the relevance to the comparison between Shorten and Brandis.

Shorten was a minister, Brandis in opposition. I dare say you compare a lot of Howard ministers against labor opposition and things would look the same.

The simple fact is that the system is broken. When you can go out of your way to make a dodgy claim, and with the exception of Slipper, never face any consequences but paying it back if the media attention gets a bit hot.
 
sydboy007 said:
Not sure of the relevance to the comparison between Shorten and Brandis.

Shorten was a minister, Brandis in opposition. I dare say you compare a lot of Howard ministers against labor opposition and things would look the same.

The simple fact is that the system is broken. When you can go out of your way to make a dodgy claim, and with the exception of Slipper, never face any consequences but paying it back if the media attention gets a bit hot.
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I think the damming point is they tried (still trying)to justify the claim rather than ops simple mistake pay it back.
 
IFocus said:
I think the damming point is they tried (still trying)to justify the claim rather than ops simple mistake pay it back.
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Very true. I suppose it's too much to ask for them to admit they stepped over the line.

It was a bit like Abbott resisted paying back the money he claimed while doing his book signing tour, and that was for quite a bit more than these two parasites claimed.

The parliament expenses system needs to be like the tax system. Get caught with a fraudulent claim and you start paying interest costs plus penalties. Might make our Dear Leaders to think whether they should really be claiming the winery tour or wedding party or...
 
While Indonesian ministers were banging on about our infringement of their sovereignty, the obvious thing for Abbott to do was to tell Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono to stop Indonesian boats infringing on our sovereignty. Game, Set and Match.

He chickened out. Apparently his trip was to suck up to them. With this attitude, he hasn't got a hope in hell of stopping the boats. The Indonesians will continue to play on his weakness...and fill the leaky boats.
 
Calliope said:
While Indonesian ministers were banging on about our infringement of their sovereignty, the obvious thing for Abbott to do was to tell Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono to stop Indonesian boats infringing on our sovereignty. Game, Set and Match.

He chickened out. Apparently his trip was to suck up to them. With this attitude, he hasn't got a hope in hell of stopping the boats. The Indonesians will continue to play on his weakness...and fill the leaky boats.
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Possibly the best way to help ourselves is to help the Indonesians with their problem of being a transit country. If he help stop the refugees getting to Indonesia, we help stop them trying to get here.

It's basically the regional solution the Indonesians have been saying all along. Less chest thumping, more looking at the problem from multiple view points, and over time we might get to a solution.

3 words slogans work in opposition, but the reality of international politics is much harder work.

ps. Why did it surprise you Abbott chickened out? He did it when he last met SBY in opposition? He didn't have the cajones - oops ticker in Howard speak - to talk about his tow back the boats policy.
 
Calliope said:
While Indonesian ministers were banging on about our infringement of their sovereignty, the obvious thing for Abbott to do was to tell Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono to stop Indonesian boats infringing on our sovereignty. Game, Set and Match.

He chickened out. Apparently his trip was to suck up to them. With this attitude, he hasn't got a hope in hell of stopping the boats. The Indonesians will continue to play on his weakness...and fill the leaky boats.
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Thankfully, Abbott has a bit more nouse than you Calliope.

It's called political expediency. He had to talk tough to get voter attention here in Aus (albeit a bit lose tongued) but now has to eat a bit of humble pie and suck-up a bit to repair the Indo relations.

He's got the job ahead of him to get any significant results soon. But, he has to start somewhere.
 
Whiskers said:
Thankfully, Abbott has a bit more nouse than you Calliope.
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Why thankfully? And how can you be sure?:rolleyes:


Definition: Nouse

"Portland Oregon slang term for penis. Derived from Pen-nouse".

(Urban Dictionary)

It's also a computer mouse operated with the nose.:D
 
Calliope said:
While Indonesian ministers were banging on about our infringement of their sovereignty, the obvious thing for Abbott to do was to tell Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono to stop Indonesian boats infringing on our sovereignty. Game, Set and Match.

He chickened out. Apparently his trip was to suck up to them. With this attitude, he hasn't got a hope in hell of stopping the boats. The Indonesians will continue to play on his weakness...and fill the leaky boats.
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LOL at thinking Abbott was going to do anything but suck up to Indonesia once he was in Government. The macho stuff in opposition was fresh meat for his more gullible and slow-witted followers (like yourself).
 
Calliope said:
Why thankfully? And how can you be sure?:rolleyes:

Definition: Nouse

"Portland Oregon slang term for penis. Derived from Pen-nouse".

(Urban Dictionary)

It's also a computer mouse operated with the nose.:D
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Context... it's elementary! Self evident whether you have nouse or wankin the nouse.

"It’s not where you take things from - it’s where you take them to.”​

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=nouse
 

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banco said:
LOL at thinking Abbott was going to do anything but suck up to Indonesia once he was in Government. The macho stuff in opposition was fresh meat for his more gullible and slow-witted followers (like yourself).
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Not sure it was a case of "was going" as in pre-planned, so much as had no choice but too, as in misjudged the cultural divide a bit.

This is probably the wisest statement I heard from the trip.

Mr Yudhoyono welcomed Mr Abbott's assurance on Indonesia's sovereignty, saying both Australia and Indonesia were "victims" of people smuggling
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-09-...indonesian-sovereignty-asylum-seekers/4989734
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Sometimes I think I like this Yudhoyono fella more than any of our lot! :eek:

He always strikes me as being very diplomatic... probably more corrupt and inconsiderate of his great southern neighbour... but very diplomatic about it all none-the-less.

More of a bipartisan approach as opposed to partisan - of, pertaining to, or carried on by military partisans or guerrillas... as Abbotts loose tongue policy comments would have come across to the Indo's.

You need to understand their sensitivity of 'military' as in our "military led" border protection campaign & intervention (think East Temor) in their country for intelligence and to buy boats etc. That hits a very raw nerve with them. I suspect it's going to take a bit of time more than anything else to warm back up from that bit of a chill.
 
Calliope said:
While Indonesian ministers were banging on about our infringement of their sovereignty, the obvious thing for Abbott to do was to tell Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono to stop Indonesian boats infringing on our sovereignty. Game, Set and Match.

He chickened out. Apparently his trip was to suck up to them. With this attitude, he hasn't got a hope in hell of stopping the boats. The Indonesians will continue to play on his weakness...and fill the leaky boats.
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You might be jumping to conclusions a little hastily there.

Time will tell.
 
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