MichaelD
Not fooled by randomness
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btw, if you actually try this you can't see a thing on the screen as the sun's too bright (yes, I've tried this).It's Snake Pliskin said:
So who's given up their day job to trade?
- Thread starter caleb2003
- Start date
Havent worked for 3 months or so now and wouldn't change it for the world. Being able to spend more time with my 2 year old (who is currently beside me crying out because mum's outside) is priceless. While i've found trading rewarding and gives me more freedom it is hard work. When you take into account the hours of research, the hours of price fluctuations, that you can or cannot stomach and the hits and the miss hits. Some days you are better off turning of the screen and reintroducing yourself to the sunlight! But for me it has suited my reclusive nature and so far i"ve found it mentally stimulating and a journey of self exploration. Like waynel ,you do look at the wage slaves and realise you could never go back!
"Trading is not for the faint of heart or weak of bowel" , be warned! But the rewards are there if you are not one of the 90%.
"Trading is not for the faint of heart or weak of bowel" , be warned! But the rewards are there if you are not one of the 90%.
professor_frink
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A question for any of the full timers-
Are there any out there that solely trade shares? If so, what are the plans for a bear market, or directionless market?
Are there any out there that solely trade shares? If so, what are the plans for a bear market, or directionless market?
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Setting the background: I've been trading shares successfully for the past 5 or 6 years. Initially buy and hold as I had a day job and couldn't monitor the sharemarket throughout the day.
A year or so ago, my wife was transferred overseas, so I gave up the day job and the kids and I accommpanied her on the posting. Initially I had some short term work contracts but they have progressively dried up. The pay was rat**** too, and I was only working to give myself something to do and earn a bit of pool/beer money!
For the past four months I have been day trading full time. I have a CFD account that I funded with 20k. It was enough to lose without getting too worried about it, should things not work out.
The first month was a bit of a disaster in that I lost a bit of money. Held a couple of trades too long as they "were cheap and had to come back" but didnt.
2nd month was also a losing month, but not so bad - same sort of scenario as the first month. With CFD's a decrease in price is painful and you have to dump stocks quickly that aren't moving in the right direction.
I seem to have got my **** together now and the last two months have been great. 3rd month saw profit of $4000. This month I am up a bit over $5200 with a week to go. Those figures indicate a return on capital of 20%+ per month. Maybe just a winning streak though.
A typical day for me is out of bed at 5.30 as the market opens at 6am (local time here in Jakarta). By about 8.30ish, I have itchy feet and usually looking for some company so jump in the car and motor down to the local mall for breakfast/coffee etc. I have a laptop and the mall has wireless so no problem watching the market. I'm only off the air for around 20 minutes durng the travel/setup etc. Can spend anywhere up to a couple of hours there reading the paper, chatting up the waitresses and perving at some of the sweet young things!! Gotta love Jakarta.
Another plus is that I can do whatever I want when I want. ie go and play golf. But like any job, if you arent working (trading) you arent making any money.
I think Wayne has summed up the mental side of it fairly well. It's a lonely business and he is correct when he says you are surrounded by envy and jealousy.
Having the mrs earning all our money needs, or having regular income from elsewhere, is essential. I'd hate to have the additional pressure of having to earn our spending money.
It can be a grind sometimes, but I wouldn't give up this job for anything!
Looking at the trade summary screen, three trades on the go, I''m down $250 for todays efforts. It ain't easy!!
Nearly time to move operations to the mall.....
cheers all
A year or so ago, my wife was transferred overseas, so I gave up the day job and the kids and I accommpanied her on the posting. Initially I had some short term work contracts but they have progressively dried up. The pay was rat**** too, and I was only working to give myself something to do and earn a bit of pool/beer money!
For the past four months I have been day trading full time. I have a CFD account that I funded with 20k. It was enough to lose without getting too worried about it, should things not work out.
The first month was a bit of a disaster in that I lost a bit of money. Held a couple of trades too long as they "were cheap and had to come back" but didnt.
2nd month was also a losing month, but not so bad - same sort of scenario as the first month. With CFD's a decrease in price is painful and you have to dump stocks quickly that aren't moving in the right direction.
I seem to have got my **** together now and the last two months have been great. 3rd month saw profit of $4000. This month I am up a bit over $5200 with a week to go. Those figures indicate a return on capital of 20%+ per month. Maybe just a winning streak though.
A typical day for me is out of bed at 5.30 as the market opens at 6am (local time here in Jakarta). By about 8.30ish, I have itchy feet and usually looking for some company so jump in the car and motor down to the local mall for breakfast/coffee etc. I have a laptop and the mall has wireless so no problem watching the market. I'm only off the air for around 20 minutes durng the travel/setup etc. Can spend anywhere up to a couple of hours there reading the paper, chatting up the waitresses and perving at some of the sweet young things!! Gotta love Jakarta.
Another plus is that I can do whatever I want when I want. ie go and play golf. But like any job, if you arent working (trading) you arent making any money.
I think Wayne has summed up the mental side of it fairly well. It's a lonely business and he is correct when he says you are surrounded by envy and jealousy.
Having the mrs earning all our money needs, or having regular income from elsewhere, is essential. I'd hate to have the additional pressure of having to earn our spending money.
It can be a grind sometimes, but I wouldn't give up this job for anything!
Looking at the trade summary screen, three trades on the go, I''m down $250 for todays efforts. It ain't easy!!
Nearly time to move operations to the mall.....
cheers all
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when is i first started investing at beginning of this year i thought i would end up on a boat somewhere with my laptop. haha.
i think you could only do that in a short period of time if you had 10k or more on CDU or same amount in PDN for 3 years.
i have learnt that chasing a company who is going to be a ten bagger or more is a VERY VERY difficult task and they dont come along everyday.
so over this year ive learnt that small gains are still gains and they are much better than large losses. i changed my whole attitude towards trading around 3 months or so ago and began investing based on fundamental analysis and using a macro-economic analysis.
i have mostly just invested in resources. i began by determining what types of resources would be in demand. it may sound simple but it is very efficient and it works. for eg i would not want to be investing in any pure play copper stocks now as the macro-economic demand has gone for that metal.
so determine what will be in demand for the future then identify which stocks will benefit most (fundamental). i still have a long way to go and only consider myself a beginner but do realise i have come a long way from when i was throwing money on penny hopefuls and expecting a huge return.
i think you could only do that in a short period of time if you had 10k or more on CDU or same amount in PDN for 3 years.
i have learnt that chasing a company who is going to be a ten bagger or more is a VERY VERY difficult task and they dont come along everyday.
so over this year ive learnt that small gains are still gains and they are much better than large losses. i changed my whole attitude towards trading around 3 months or so ago and began investing based on fundamental analysis and using a macro-economic analysis.
i have mostly just invested in resources. i began by determining what types of resources would be in demand. it may sound simple but it is very efficient and it works. for eg i would not want to be investing in any pure play copper stocks now as the macro-economic demand has gone for that metal.
so determine what will be in demand for the future then identify which stocks will benefit most (fundamental). i still have a long way to go and only consider myself a beginner but do realise i have come a long way from when i was throwing money on penny hopefuls and expecting a huge return.
CanOz
Home runs feel good, but base hits pay bills!
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wayneL said:/\ heheheheheheheheeeh
You crack me up, an avatar for every occasion!
CanOz
Home runs feel good, but base hits pay bills!
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au:xao
Hi Caleb
Interesting topic
I to would like to be able to give up work to be able to trade. But I don't think I have the mindset at the moment to be able to do this. I have given it a short burst but found that I was a bit of a personal battle as well.
The buck stops with you completely and there is noone to blame for any mistakes but yourself.
Definitely get something else to do during the day also and make sure that you try and only spend a set amount of time in front of the screen. And as WanyeL said be prepared for people who will not understand that just because you are at home you are free to talk or go out. There will be people that will know that you trade and will have much delight coming up and telling you that they saw on the TV that the market took a hammering. I used to then try and talk to them about shorting but realised it was a waste of time.
With some of the tech stuff that you can get these days at work monitoring is a bit easier, with alerts and Txts for quick info.
But have fun. I found that when I had a good earn I would draw out some money and reward myself with something tangible. A nice paintings for the office or a weekend away somewhere.
Jump in. That waters fine.
Cheers Martin
Interesting topic
I to would like to be able to give up work to be able to trade. But I don't think I have the mindset at the moment to be able to do this. I have given it a short burst but found that I was a bit of a personal battle as well.
The buck stops with you completely and there is noone to blame for any mistakes but yourself.
Definitely get something else to do during the day also and make sure that you try and only spend a set amount of time in front of the screen. And as WanyeL said be prepared for people who will not understand that just because you are at home you are free to talk or go out. There will be people that will know that you trade and will have much delight coming up and telling you that they saw on the TV that the market took a hammering. I used to then try and talk to them about shorting but realised it was a waste of time.
With some of the tech stuff that you can get these days at work monitoring is a bit easier, with alerts and Txts for quick info.
But have fun. I found that when I had a good earn I would draw out some money and reward myself with something tangible. A nice paintings for the office or a weekend away somewhere.
Jump in. That waters fine.
Cheers Martin
Thanks for the comments up to now. I think theres been some real good advice and real life examples been posted and hopefully it's helping others who are watching this thread.
From my point of view I will definitely stop working for others soon, possibly after Jan when my next contract runs out. Even as a contractor I'm still treated like an employee which wasn't my initial plan 5 years ago when I started this.
So I've been looking to invest in a business for a couple of years but really am a bit suss about the start up costs, the hassle and responsibilty of having staff possibly and also even the high rate of failure, so Trading seems like a good business from the point of view of those things, whilst obviously the start up capital is required at least it doesnt have to be spent in a job lot.
As I've already prepared myself for starting a business and knowing that in many cases this can mean not realising a profit for up to 2 years then I can apply the same principle to trading but hopefully by utilising sensible money management I won't blow my account and then go back to working for others again!!!
I know it's a long and rocky road but as I seem to have a similar mindset to most of the people who seem to have done it on here then it's possibly worth a stab, I should add that the main reason for me personally is not the possible riches of money but the greater richness of time for me and my young family.
So up to now I'm getting the opinion that a home trader should be very self disciplined, not a social junkie and have strict attitudes towards risk management and should also be able to motivate ones self to work.
Am I on the right path
Thanks
From my point of view I will definitely stop working for others soon, possibly after Jan when my next contract runs out. Even as a contractor I'm still treated like an employee which wasn't my initial plan 5 years ago when I started this.
So I've been looking to invest in a business for a couple of years but really am a bit suss about the start up costs, the hassle and responsibilty of having staff possibly and also even the high rate of failure, so Trading seems like a good business from the point of view of those things, whilst obviously the start up capital is required at least it doesnt have to be spent in a job lot.
As I've already prepared myself for starting a business and knowing that in many cases this can mean not realising a profit for up to 2 years then I can apply the same principle to trading but hopefully by utilising sensible money management I won't blow my account and then go back to working for others again!!!
I know it's a long and rocky road but as I seem to have a similar mindset to most of the people who seem to have done it on here then it's possibly worth a stab, I should add that the main reason for me personally is not the possible riches of money but the greater richness of time for me and my young family.
So up to now I'm getting the opinion that a home trader should be very self disciplined, not a social junkie and have strict attitudes towards risk management and should also be able to motivate ones self to work.
Am I on the right path
Thanks
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1 week to go
I'm currently spinning LSL and annual leave to 5 months leave to see how I go trading for a living. I'm currently doing dividend trading and some short term (holding for 2-3 days trading both short and long - I call it trading the noise).
I hope to be able to quit by the end of the 5 months. I agree with others that you need to have cash set aside to cover the dry spells. Having a family I will have 7 months in cash and another 2 years if I sell some IPs. Also my trading capital is large enough to pay 150% of my initial "salary" so I can sock my money away.
I agree if you like your job the best thing you can do is trade part time and sock away the profits. I think it would be hard to get rich trading full time unless you are either
1/ Single and can live on baked beans during the lean times.
2/ Have so much capital that your "salary" pales into insignificance to the annual returns.
MIT
I'm currently spinning LSL and annual leave to 5 months leave to see how I go trading for a living. I'm currently doing dividend trading and some short term (holding for 2-3 days trading both short and long - I call it trading the noise).
I hope to be able to quit by the end of the 5 months. I agree with others that you need to have cash set aside to cover the dry spells. Having a family I will have 7 months in cash and another 2 years if I sell some IPs. Also my trading capital is large enough to pay 150% of my initial "salary" so I can sock my money away.
I agree if you like your job the best thing you can do is trade part time and sock away the profits. I think it would be hard to get rich trading full time unless you are either
1/ Single and can live on baked beans during the lean times.
2/ Have so much capital that your "salary" pales into insignificance to the annual returns.
MIT
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caleb2003 said:
In trading if you are not realising profits then you are losing money.
Now if you earn some income from trading that covers expenses it still is very difficult due to taxes, the time value of money etc.
Being an employee and walking through the door, you start making money by simply doing that.
WayneL,
Nice avatar!
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Pays my bourbon bill...the more crap I talk the more money I have .....buuurrrrpppp!!!....lol..........MADE.....:
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professor_frink said:
Professor some ideas:
1. One can use a counter-trend system.
2. Trade multiple markets.
3. Focus on the stocks that are trending up - with patience.
4. Be mentally prepared to lose money and for reduced profits.
Disclaimer: This is not representative of what I do or what anyone else should do.
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