Sentencing in Australia is a disgrace

[Calliope]

I think society needs to move away from the idea of punishment of sociopathic offenders and instead move towards the notion of protecting the rest of us from such people. Lock them up and throw away the key would achieve this without causing all the emotional conflict regarding death sentencing.
If it means that we, as taxpayers, have to support them for the rest of their miserable lives then personally I think that’s a small price to pay for our protection and security.

Daisy you are right. Dare I suggest the dreaded words "Concentration Camps" where the predators could be segregated quite cheaply, and at the same time put to useful employment.

 

[Happy]

While I have also expressed similar thoughts, regarding the death sentence, from time to time, it’s usually been in frustration at sentencing and recidivism. I kind of understood the facebook posts. But, I don’t know if I would actually be comfortable with the reality.

..

I don’t have the same hesitation; maybe I got used to life being snuffed out for no reason, that I quietly accept the need of terminal punishment too.

In Australia annual road fatality about 1000 a year, US about 25,000 a year.
Various accidents, recent bushfire took 208, maybe more.

There are numerous murders too, so for me few more few less doesn’t make that much difference.

I rather see them as liability, there is danger of wrongful death, but it would not be deliberate and taking into account that so many innocent lives are taken out for no other reason than being in a wrong place, I can live with that too.

I would rather spend $60,000 a year for the rest of life on free dental care / hospitals instead any day.

In recession it makes even more sense.

Maybe one day.


But Australia is not alone with lenient sentencing >

From ABC, 20 Feb. 09

MEN GET LIFE FOR NZ DRIVE-BY SHOOTING
By New Zealand correspondent Kerri Ritchie

In New Zealand, six men have been sent to jail for their involvement in a drive by shooting which killed a two-year-old girl.
Jhia Te Tua died instantly when members of the Mongrel Mob gang fired shots into her home in the north island city of Wanganui in 2007.
The two-year-old was hit by a bullet as she lay sleeping on the couch.
The group meant to kill her father who was a member of the rival Black Power gang.
The two men who planned and carried out the attack, Karl Check and Hayden Wallace, were jailed for life.
The judge described their actions as disgraceful and chilling and set a minimum non-parole period of 15 years.
Four others who were involved were also jailed.
A line of police had to separate rival gang members in court.

 

[Calliope]

It's a crazy world. The other day we were talking about the dangers of releasing the Yorkshire ripper. The doctors say he will not re-offend providing he continues to take his schizophrenia medication.

And now we have the case of Cornelia Rau being arrested in Jordan for behaving erratically after failing to take her medication. The very rich Ms Rau has, of course, many supporters and advisers, and they are blaming the Australian authorities for failing to protect her. Ironically the only way to make Ms Rau take her medication would be to lock her up again, and that could lead to another compo claim.

NewsCom

Cornelia Rau detained
AUSTRALIAN consular officials in Jordan have met with a South Australian woman, believed to be Cornelia Rau, who was detained by local authorities on Wednesday.
Ms Rau was wrongfully detained by Australian immigration officials four years ago.

She has reportedly been wandering the Middle East for months without taking her psychosis medication, causing her to behave erratically.

A Department of Foreign Affairs (DFAT) spokesman said consular officials met with a 43-year-old woman in Amman on Thursday.

He said the woman refused consular assistance. "Our consular staff remain ready to assist at any time," the spokesman said.

The spokesman could not confirm the woman was Ms Rau.

Last year, the Federal Government paid German-born Ms Rau $2.6 million in compensation for the 10 months she was wrongfully detained at a Brisbane jail and South Australia's Baxter detention centre.

Authorities had mistakenly believed she was an illegal immigrant.

She was sent to an Adelaide mental hospital after being found in the detention centre.

 

[Happy]

It's a crazy world.

Another example >

From Illawarra Mercury, 19/02/2009 9:56:00 AM

ILLAWARRA FAMILY LEFT DESTITUTE BY KILLER
BY MICHELLE HOCTOR

The family of murdered Woonona miner Stephen Holmes has been forced into crisis housing after losing their home.
Wife Angela and her daughters were evicted just after Christmas when she was unable to continue the rental payments on what was intended to be the family's dream home.
Mrs Holmes is now grappling with how one man's act of violence has robbed her of almost everything she held dear.
"We were just the Joneses, just a normal family with a wonderful husband and father who worked hard as a coalminer to give us a better life," she said. "Now it's just me and the girls and setbacks keep happening to the point where I'm just speechless."
Since her husband was shot and killed by neighbour Stanley Maguire 15 months ago, Mrs Holmes has been on a hellish journey that has included post-traumatic stress disorder and drug addiction.

Today she lives in a Wollongong unit with her two daughters and Mr Holmes' eldest child from a previous relationship, waiting for rental accommodation to become available that will meet her $250-a-week budget.
"Stephen's murder led to a severe drug addiction for me. I tried to numb what was going on," Mrs Holmes said. "I took drugs to go to sleep and drugs to wake up.

"I pulled myself out of it ... I never want to go back there again."
Mrs Holmes, 31, said she was still haunted by the nightmare of November 24, 2007, when her husband, a father of four girls aged three to 18, rushed into the street outside their home to confront Maguire, only to be fatally shot in the chest.

"John (as Maguire was known) was mouthing off about my husband. Steve was sitting on the front porch just listening. But then he said something about me and the kids and that was it. Steve took off."
It emerged later that 59-year-old Maguire, a paranoid schizophrenic, had been convicted of manslaughter in 1994 and served almost eight years in prison before being released in 2002.

He was relocated to a Department of Housing home in Lassiter Ave, where he allegedly verbally abused his neighbours before killing Mr Holmes, 41. Maguire fled the scene and his car was found abandoned on the Central Coast.
Skeletal remains were discovered by a bushwalker last October, just 40m from where Maguire's car was found.

A preliminary examination suggested Maguire may have killed himself with a shotgun.
Four months later, DNA tests to positively identify Maguire's body have still not been finalised.
Mrs Holmes is suing the NSW Government for failing to protect the community from Maguire.
(But) at the moment I am just trying to get us settled with a roof over our head. We are so desperately trying to rebuild our lives."

Of course, miner could die in a road accident or mining accident, but he didn’t and died from hand of paranoid schizophrenic!

 

[Julia]

Jail is not the place for people who are mentally ill.

Once upon a time we had functional psychiatric institutions with secure wings where people whose violent behaviour made them unsafe to be at large were kept. Better for them and better for the community.

The whole experiment of 'treating mentally ill people within the community' has been a dismal failure.

 

[MrBurns]

It emerged later that 59-year-old Maguire, a paranoid schizophrenic, had been convicted of manslaughter in 1994 and served almost eight years in prison before being released in 2002.

I wish these people who are so clever and release these creeps actually were the ones who were effected

 

[daisy]

Jail is not the place for people who are mentally ill.

Once upon a time we had functional psychiatric institutions with secure wings where people whose violent behaviour made them unsafe to be at large were kept. Better for them and better for the community.

The whole experiment of 'treating mentally ill people within the community' has been a dismal failure.

Agree Julia. Deinstitutionalisation was just a cynical cost cutting exercise. Apart from the criminally insane there are so many others with psychiatric illnesses who have suffered neglect from this policy. (small town... I see them every day...some are kind of local identities)

What I have always found puzzling is the definition of criminally insane. e.g. your everyday murdering raping psychopath is, in most cases, not considered so.

 

[Julia]

What I have always found puzzling is the definition of criminally insane. e.g. your everyday murdering raping psychopath is, in most cases, not considered so.

They're not considered insane because they have full awareness of right and wrong This is a pretty good summary of the psychopathic personality:

http://law.jrank.org/pages/1885/Psychopathy-Psychopathy-criminal-law.html

 

[traderc]

They aren't.

There are stories here of prisoners wanting to help other prisoners to learn how to read, but are disallowed from doing so. No wonder they end up back there.

They're not in jail to better themselves; they've had that chance in the outside world before they committed the crime. They're in there to serve the time they've been sentenced to. Why should the government be providing any services to prisoners. They should be locked in cells the entire time with a food slot and a window when it comes time to get out, they get out; that simple.

And there have been recent cases where prisoners are released without having the appropriate treatment (sex offenders) when they were having that treatment on the outside, which is a disgrace.

Sex offenders shouldn't be let out. They don't understand the word NO. Even a dog understands that simple command if you train it properly. Don't give me this crap about "they're insane, they didn't know what they were doing".

I believe all men have the capacity for rape; the difference is most know when to stop themselves or at least ask permission first.

Most of them have jobs inside.

Most of the jobs they do hardly pay for their crimes they committed is what the previous poster was getting at. They should be worked till they collapse then be at it again the next day. Today's sentences hardly fit the severity of their crimes.

Or you don't have a clue.

You must be one of those civil libetarian types. What if it was your child that was raped or your brother or sister murdered or a family member that was run down by a drunk idiot in a car? Sure you wouldn't think it was funny then.

Amazing how often people look at a crime and the resulting sentence and think, "pathetic, they should have gotten longer". What does that tell you? That the government, that used to be for the people is now hardly anything of the sort and the "do-gooders" that are trying to save the criminals from themselves should be taking more of a "rot in hell" type stance.

For the final year of their sentence I think they should maybe be moved to a reasonable type share accommodation like a parole system where they have to report in still but they live with some type of guardian (non-prisoner) to help get them work that they HAVE TO STAY AT and assist their reintegration into society and show them how to live a settled "human" life again; not that of the animal they used to be.

...and anyone has the capacity to become an animal. Back anyone into a corner and abuse them and they'll turn, be sure of it.

Christian

 

[daisy]

.

Sex offenders shouldn't be let out. They don't understand the word NO. Even a dog understands that simple command if you train it properly. Don't give me this crap about "they're insane, they didn't know what they were doing".

Christian

Agree.
My question about criminal insanity was in support of this statement not against it. If they are not redeemable/treatable then why let them out?
If you forget about punishing them and just work on protecting us from them...
Calliope's 'concentration camp' suggestion seems highly practical.

Thanks for that article Julia. It explained it very well.

 

[daisy]

Apart from the sentencing of sociopaths and psychopaths, which put all of us at risk, is the other question of sentencing people who do not fit into the above category.
What is this rubbish about a judge handing down, say a fifteen year sentence, and then in the next breath substantially reducing it?
And also the one that allows offenders to serve sentences concurrently?
How insulting is that to the victims of these offenders?

 

[nulla nulla]

Hang murderers, Castrate violent sex offenders, multiple crimes multiple sentence (no concurrent sentences) throw away the key and forget all this bulldust about criminal rights. They couldn't respect the rights of others and accordingly thier rights are forfeit.

 

[Happy]

Hang murderers, Castrate violent sex offenders, multiple crimes multiple sentence (no concurrent sentences) throw away the key and forget all this bulldust about criminal rights. They couldn't respect the rights of others and accordingly thier rights are forfeit.

Looks like perfect start to slowly change this great country to safer place for all those who just want to live safely here.

 

[Calliope]

No mention of what the victim had to say about all this.

SMH

Teen 'drunk for first time' raped woman, 82
February 24, 2009 - 3:52PM
A teenager who raped an elderly woman in a Sydney park has been jailed for at least three years.

Robert el-Chammas, 18, approached the 82-year-old woman while she was walking through the park in Anzac Avenue, West Ryde, early on May 11 last year.

The NSW District Court was told that the night before the attack el-Chammas had been drunk for the first time, and had no memory of the incident.

The court heard that el-Chammas approached the woman from behind and threw her to the ground.

The teenager had been drinking with friends in Kings Cross the previous night, his barrister Ian McClintock, SC, said.

He said the teenager spent $200 on a shout that night, and got drunk for the first time.

"He indicates that in his life he has never been drunk before and he is at a loss to explain his behaviour," Mr McClintock said.

"He indicates that he does not have any recollection of the event ... he expresses his disgust at the event."

Mr McClintock said there was no alcohol in his client's system 10 hours after the attack.

The court was told that, while the attack was aggravated due to the victim's age and vulnerability, el-Chammas's youth was a mitigating factor.

A number of referees vouched for the teenager's good character and honesty, Mr McClintock said.

In imposing a maximum five-year term on el-Chammas, Judge Peter Johnstone said there were a number of mitigating factors.

"There are factors that call for a departure from the standard non-parole period, the fact that this was the first and only offence this offender has committed, his extreme youth, his prospect of rehabilitation and the unlikelihood of his reoffending," Judge Johnstone said.

 

[bunyip]

Give crims the Singapore treatment and then see if they still think they can thumb their noses at the law.
Singapore is one of the safest countries with one of the lowest crime rates in the world.
No lenient treatment over there, no ifs buts or maybes.......you break the law, you get hit, and you get hit hard.
We should copy their model if we're serious about drastically reducing crime in Australia.

 

[Julia]

No mention of what the victim had to say about all this.

SMH

Yet another example that the law has little to do with justice.
What a ***** coward to pick on an 82 year old woman!

 

[Happy]

Give crims the Singapore treatment and then see if they still think they can thumb their noses at the law.
Singapore is one of the safest countries with one of the lowest crime rates in the world.
No lenient treatment over there, no ifs buts or maybes.......you break the law, you get hit, and you get hit hard.
We should copy their model if we're serious about drastically reducing crime in Australia.

I wander if it is possible to apply Singapore punishment model in Australia?

 

[Ageo]

I wander if it is possible to apply Singapore punishment model in Australia?

Why because we have people here that care more about animals than humans?

I think bunyip has hit the nail on the head, if you steal then a nice flogging, next time you steal again a finger goes (if your dumb enough to do it again) a hand goes etc..........

When you have zero tolerance towards punishment people learn quickly.

 

[Calliope]

I wander if it is possible to apply Singapore punishment model in Australia?

Definitely not. Our jails are not big enough. In Singapore discipline starts in the home, so fewer kids grow up to be criminals.

 

[MrBurns]

Definitely not. Our jails are not big enough. In Singapore discipline starts in the home, so fewer kids grow up to be criminals.

I would happily pay more tax to build more jails and keep the streets clean, but it's not just that is it it's the Judiciary and the "system".