Sentencing in Australia is a disgrace

[MrBurns]

It's a disgrace that it's come to this but the authorities clearly are unable to protect the public adequately.

It's really a matter of looking after your own.

When you see our Govt, for instance but not only , Gillard fully focused on buying votes, protecting her own back and intent on discrediting the opposition, and that's her only function..................what hope is there that attention would be given to an issue such as this.

 

[Julia]

If we build it, they will come.

Is this a tongue-in-cheek remark? What are you actually suggesting here?

 

[MrBurns]

Valentine's Day child rapist wins sentence reduction

A New South Wales man who kidnapped and raped a six-year-old girl on Valentine's Day three years ago has won an appeal against his jail sentence.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-04-16/valentines-day-child-rapist-has-sentence-reduced/4632162

I would have thought it more appropriate that they thanked him for his appeal took him outside and blew his head off.

 

[Calliope]

Is this a tongue-in-cheek remark? What are you actually suggesting here?

A quotation from Field of Dreams..."if we build it he will come".

Stewiejp is probably suggesting that if we build more jails there will be more candidates to fill them.

Parkinson's Law is similar;

Parkinson's Law:
Work expands to fill the time available for its completion.
Corollaries:
Data expands to fill the space available for storage.
Your stuff accumulates to fill the size of your home

 

[Julia]

A quotation from Field of Dreams..."if we build it he will come".

Stewiejp is probably suggesting that if we build more jails there will be more candidates to fill them.

Parkinson's Law is similar;

Parkinson's Law:
Work expands to fill the time available for its completion.
Corollaries:
Data expands to fill the space available for storage.
Your stuff accumulates to fill the size of your home

Yes, I know all that, Calliope. I was more interested in exactly what Stewiejp had in mind as there are various ways the comment could be interpreted when it comes to jails/offenders/criminal behaviour.
Stewiejp???

 

[stewiejp]

Julia,

Victorian prisons have been full (or close to full) for some years. Last time I checked the stats there were (in even numbers) 5000 prisoners in Victorian prisons, and a further 10,000 "offenders" who were "serving their sentences in the community" - ie they were on parole, or serving non custodial sentences such as suspended sentence (weren't these going to be scrapped) or Community Based Orders etc. Those numbers are a few years old though.

In the past year or two extra beds and/or units have been installed into the Melbourne Assessment Prison (city), Metro. Remand Centre, Port Philip Prison, Barwon, the 2 women's' prisons and all but maybe one or two of the country jails. They are all still full... hence the quote.

FWIW prison numbers have nothing to do with illegal immigrants numbers - they are housed in separate facilities (Detention Centres) as they have not been found guilty or remanded of an offence in an Aussie court - they are simply here illegally, or could be here illegally.

I don't pretend to have the answers, just throwing up a few stats.

 

[MrBurns]

Julia,

Victorian prisons have been full (or close to full) for some years. Last time I checked the stats there were (in even numbers) 5000 prisoners in Victorian prisons, and a further 10,000 "offenders" who were "serving their sentences in the community" - ie they were on parole, or serving non custodial sentences such as suspended sentence (weren't these going to be scrapped) or Community Based Orders etc. Those numbers are a few years old though.

In the past year or two extra beds and/or units have been installed into the Melbourne Assessment Prison (city), Metro. Remand Centre, Port Philip Prison, Barwon, the 2 women's' prisons and all but maybe one or two of the country jails. They are all still full... hence the quote.

FWIW prison numbers have nothing to do with illegal immigrants numbers - they are housed in separate facilities (Detention Centres) as they have not been found guilty or remanded of an offence in an Aussie court - they are simply here illegally, or could be here illegally.

I don't pretend to have the answers, just throwing up a few stats.

That's very interesting, you must be involved somehow, scary to think they let so many dangerous persons out to roam among us.

 

[Julia]

Julia,

Victorian prisons have been full (or close to full) for some years. Last time I checked the stats there were (in even numbers) 5000 prisoners in Victorian prisons, and a further 10,000 "offenders" who were "serving their sentences in the community" - ie they were on parole, or serving non custodial sentences such as suspended sentence (weren't these going to be scrapped) or Community Based Orders etc. Those numbers are a few years old though.

In the past year or two extra beds and/or units have been installed into the Melbourne Assessment Prison (city), Metro. Remand Centre, Port Philip Prison, Barwon, the 2 women's' prisons and all but maybe one or two of the country jails. They are all still full... hence the quote.

FWIW prison numbers have nothing to do with illegal immigrants numbers - they are housed in separate facilities (Detention Centres) as they have not been found guilty or remanded of an offence in an Aussie court - they are simply here illegally, or could be here illegally.

I don't pretend to have the answers, just throwing up a few stats.

Thanks for the full response, stewie.
I'd like to broaden the discussion, if anyone is interested in participating, to consider what role jails play in our society:

i.e. do we imprison people to punish them? (Seems pretty reasonable to most of us that if someone offends against another, there should be some punishment attached, but some might disagree.)

do we imprison them with the belief that in the process they will be rehabilitated?
(The rate of recidivism would suggest that this is not working.)

do we imprison them to keep the rest of us safe or at least provide us with the illusion that we are safe?

what alternatives could we use to jail?

 

[MrBurns]

Thanks for the full response, stewie.
I'd like to broaden the discussion, if anyone is interested in participating, to consider what role jails play in our society:

i.e. do we imprison people to punish them? (Seems pretty reasonable to most of us that if someone offends against another, there should be some punishment attached, but some might disagree.)

do we imprison them with the belief that in the process they will be rehabilitated?
(The rate of recidivism would suggest that this is not working.)

do we imprison them to keep the rest of us safe or at least provide us with the illusion that we are safe?

what alternatives could we use to jail?

Jail seems to be punishment for all crimes, trouble is there's a big difference between embezzling money and raping someone.
Victimless crimes can be handled with punishment but crimes of a violent nature are different, those offenders should be properly assessed and some of them should be locked away permanently but it doesn't work that way, they get out again, punishment does not cure a violent nature or criminally/mentally sick person.

 

[MrBurns]

Jail seems to be punishment for all crimes, trouble is there's a big difference between embezzling money and raping someone.
Victimless crimes can be handled with punishment but crimes of a violent nature are different, those offenders should be properly assessed and some of them should be locked away permanently but it doesn't work that way, they get out again, punishment does not cure a violent nature or criminally/mentally sick person.

I meant jail terms with a release date shouldn't apply to all crimes, some offenders should just be in for life, meaning life with no minimum term.

 

[Country Lad]

From today's Townsville Bulletin

Police union anger over sentence for man who urinated on cop
EMMA CHANNON | April 17th, 2013


A MAN who 'danced and laughed' while he urinated on a female police officer after pushing her down two steps has avoided jail in a decision that has stunned the police union.

Acting Magistrate Richard Lehmann sentenced Terare to three months' jail, but wholly suspended it for 12 months.

http://www.townsvillebulletin.com.au/article/2013/04/17/379525_news.html

Let's hope Acting Magistrate Richard Lehmann never becomes a real magistrate.

Cheers
Country Lad

 

[stewiejp]

I meant jail terms with a release date shouldn't apply to all crimes, some offenders should just be in for life, meaning life with no minimum term.

Doesn't really happen in this country. Even Julian Knight is eligible for parole soon, though I personally doubt he'll get it. Life, no minimum generally only happens with murderers and paedophiles who are repeat offenders and deemed too great a risk to society.
From memory, a law was passed (maybe in the 80's) stating everyone was entitled to a "minimum" - which is why Knight got one. His maximum (I'd guess) is life.

 

[MrBurns]

Man jailed for bashing boy to death

A New South Wales man has been jailed for up to eight years for bashing his partner's four-year-old son to death.

Nathan Forrest pleaded guilty to the manslaughter of Bailey Constable, who died in April 2011 near Warren, in western New South Wales.

Justice Elizabeth Fullerton has sentenced Forrest to eight years in jail, with a non-parole period of six.

The judge said Forrest was in a position of authority over the boy, who was sick and recovering from other injuries the night he was bashed.

The child's mother, Jessica Constable, previously told the Supreme Court Forrest had injected himself with speed and hit the child in the bathroom after the boy wet the bed.

She said after her son lost consciousness, Forrest shook him then tried to resuscitate him.

She also said Forrest wanted her to tell people they found Bailey face-down in the bath.

Forrest will be eligible for parole in 2017

.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-04-19/man-jailed-for-bashing-boy-to-death/4639764

This creep will be out soon, moving among us like a normal human being...........:bad:

 

[stewiejp]

It seems to be becoming more predominant, maybe to "plea bargain", as is common in the US, murder gets downgraded to manslaughter (which is a lot different to murder IMO), or defensive homicide - both resulting in a single figure sentence, on order for a quicker (some would say cheaper) trial.
Justice? Not even close your honour.

 

[MrBurns]

Here we go again, why should this animal ever be released, the only suitable punishment for him is a rope BUT no they'll let him out to mix with us all in 12 years.

Man jailed over Kiesha's death

Sydney man Robert Smith has been sentenced to 16 years' jail after pleading guilty to the manslaughter of six-year-old Kiesha Weippeart.

The body of the girl was found in bushland at Shalvey in Sydney's west in 2011, one year after she went missing from her Mount Druitt home.

Smith will serve a minimum of 12 years for the killing.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-05-03/man-jailed-over-kieshas-death/4668372

 

[MrBurns]

And this absolute psychopath will be out in 7

Kidnapper jailed over 'bizarre' open grave ransom bid

A kidnapper who terrorised a student before pushing her into an open grave has been jailed for at least seven years.

In what the sentencing judge said was a "bizarre" plan, Darren Saltmarsh, 37, of Endeavour Hills, kidnapped the woman in October 2011 after meeting her online.

Victoria's Supreme Court heard Saltmarsh held a knife to her throat, bound her hands and legs, and threatened to kill her.

He stole from her bank accounts before demanding a $20,000 ransom from her family.

The court heard when the money was not paid, he dug a grave in the backyard and pushed the woman into it.

Moments later police raided the house, fearing he was about to kill her.

Saltmarsh has been sentenced to nine-and-a-half years in jail for multiple offences, including kidnapping and attempted murder.

He will serve a minimum of seven years.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-05-03/man-jailed-for-kidnapping-woman-he-met-online/4667908

 

[sptrawler]

Yes here we go, building a better Australia.
Two of the guilty are complaining that the third perpetrator got less of a sentence.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/newshome/17217528/teens-behind-bars-for-gang-attack/

What about the Innocent Victim, who gives a $hit about him, he doesn't even rate a mention.

 

[Bill M]

I just saw the Sydney news tonight and there was a story about a bus driver that whilst going about his job a female teenager took it upon herself to punch this guy 30 times in the head. He called for help and a passenger assisted him in stopping the girl. The call went out to Police and they arrested her at a shopping square. The bus driver was 64 years old. It was all captured on video. She was out on bail less the 24 hours later. Why let scum like this out on bail so easily?

 

[pixel]

I just saw the Sydney news tonight and there was a story about a bus driver that whilst going about his job a female teenager took it upon herself to punch this guy 30 times in the head. He called for help and a passenger assisted him in stopping the girl. The call went out to Police and they arrested her at a shopping square. The bus driver was 64 years old. It was all captured on video. She was out on bail less the 24 hours later. Why let scum like this out on bail so easily?

Why let scum like that stay at all?
Send her as an exchange student to Afghanistan for example. Exchange, that is, for refugees from there, who are serious about making an honest effort and live in peace.

 

[polpak]

Sentencing is less a problem than social associations with other prisoners (aka crime school).


Spend their time in a cell, with video-connection for counselling, educational tasks, then after hours for TV and/or online family contact time.

Extra video-time as rewards for completing appropriate tasks or courses.


Bess Price MLA provided her clear view:

http://www.alicespringsnews.com.au/2013/05/17/mla-bess-price-on-the-killing-of-our-women-and-abuse-of-our-kids/



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