Sentencing in Australia is a disgrace

explod · 11 December 2012

MrBurns said:
5 years what a joke..........

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-12-11/stabber-jailed-over-attack-which-left-man-quadriplegic/4420780

Yes it looks bad and there are two victims and one culprit which is the community.

Why was he drunk and on drugs?

Perhaps and most likely in my experience because of bad upbringing, lack of education and support to his family.

Five years is a long time if we consideer the community costs of keeping him there too.

We need a community to focus more on family supports, work for all as much as possible but ensure that the envioronment brings equal opportunity to all of our children growing up regardless of wealth.

But whilst we allow casinos, pokies, and liberal liquor laws, and so many other facets in this direction we deserve what we get

MrBurns · 11 December 2012

I dont think there's any "touchy feely"answer, I think some people are just bad.

Bigger jails, no parole.

Julia · 11 December 2012

explod said:
Yes it looks bad and there are two victims and one culprit which is the community.

If it were 'the community' why are the majority living in the community not afflicted with similar behaviour?

Why was he drunk and on drugs?

Perhaps and most likely in my experience because of bad upbringing, lack of education and support to his family.

Certainly factors which contribute to a sense of being a victim and consequent desire to hit back, but plenty of young people from 'good' families who lose their way also.

JTLP · 11 December 2012

It really irks me that people's upbringing can be used as a disposition for their disgraceful behaviour.

Julia has noted that plenty of good people turn bad - I think it is the biggest suckers defence to drop that XYZ went through ABC so deserves a lighter sentence. It's a multitude of things that need to be done to fix crime - but we really do need minimum mandatory sentencing...i.e.

Drunk on a Saturday night and you assault someone - 1 year in the slammer
As per above but any form of permanent/long term damage/manslaughter - 5 years to 25 years

I've obviously put about 20 seconds thought into the above - but I'd love to give it a run to see how heroic all those jocks would feel on a Saturday night with a bit of dutch courage in them. You could guarantee you'd at least get 1 of their friends pulling them back saying "you'll get a year "

cynic · 11 December 2012

explod said:
Yes it looks bad and there are two victims and one culprit which is the community.

Why was he drunk and on drugs?

Perhaps and most likely in my experience because of bad upbringing, lack of education and support to his family.

Five years is a long time if we consideer the community costs of keeping him there too.

We need a community to focus more on family supports, work for all as much as possible but ensure that the envioronment brings equal opportunity to all of our children growing up regardless of wealth.

But whilst we allow casinos, pokies, and liberal liquor laws, and so many other facets in this direction we deserve what we get

Great idea Plod!

Let's just remove all freedom of choice whilst simultaneously indoctrinating the masses into the belief that society is wholly to blame for the harmful actions of its members. That way, anyone committing a crime won't be truly guilty as it will be society's fault for having allowed the member sufficient liberty to perpetrate the crime. After all, history has already demonstrated the efficacy of prohibition, so we know we're definitely onto something here!

We might have to chryogenically freeze the entire human race in order to achieve this lofty goal, but at least it'll lower the crime rate and that has to be a good thing! Am I right?

explod · 12 December 2012

None of you above live in the real world.

An eye for an eye does not and has never worked.

Unless of course you want a totalitarian police state.

cynic · 12 December 2012

explod said:
None of you above live in the real world.

An eye for an eye does not and has never worked.

Unless of course you want a totalitarian police state.

I'm no fan of "eye for an eye" style justice either, but I do find the total abrogration of personal accountability for one's actions abhorrent.

Negative repercussions (i.e. prosecution via our justice system) have served as deterrants to criminal behaviour in the past, particularly for those citizens not already endowed with a moral compass. The efficacy of such deterrance was evidenced by the dramatic increase in unlawful behaviour during the police strikes of the last century.

I shudder every time I see our liberty further encroached by a "knee-jerk" reaction to crimes perpetrated by those "morally-challenged" members of our society. It would seem that our society believes everybody, innocent and guilty alike, ought to be held to account for the criminal actions of the few.

My preference is for a society that allows freedom of choice, and, at the same time, demonstrates a commitment to holding those whom abuse said freedom fully accountable for their misdeeds.

Tink · 12 December 2012

How much more education and support can be given -- honestly.

Once upon a time, people were more involved with what was going on in society, well I think they were.
People seem concerned today to give a helping hand in fear of their own lives, the way everything has escalated, be it drugs, alcohol.

-- is it the media that has portrayed this so badly, or has society really become so feral?

explod · 12 December 2012

cynic said:
I'm no fan of "eye for an eye" style justice either, but I do find the total abrogration of personal accountability for one's actions abhorrent.

Negative repercussions (i.e. prosecution via our justice system) have served as deterrants to criminal behaviour in the past, particularly for those citizens not already endowed with a moral compass. The efficacy of such deterrance was evidenced by the dramatic increase in unlawful behaviour during the police strikes of the last century.

I shudder every time I see our liberty further encroached by a "knee-jerk" reaction to crimes perpetrated by those "morally-challenged" members of our society. It would seem that our society believes everybody, innocent and guilty alike, ought to be held to account for the criminal actions of the few.

My preference is for a society that allows freedom of choice, and, at the same time, demonstrates a commitment to holding those whom abuse said freedom fully accountable for their misdeeds.

I do not disagree.

We need to deploy the youth properly, HECS fees for university discriminate's for a start.

We should have a compulsory two year conscription for those leaving year 12, on military lines if you like, where they are deployed for peaceful and useful community purposes.

After the 2nd WW my Farther and his peers were led back into work, farming and the community in a way that saw our society prosper for 50 years. Government needs to have the balls to really go outside the square to get this wonderful country back on such a track.

MrBurns · 12 December 2012

explod said:
I do not disagree.

We need to deploy the youth properly, HECS fees for university discriminate's for a start.

We should have a compulsory two year conscription for those leaving year 12, on military lines if you like, where they are deployed for peaceful and useful community purposes.

After the 2nd WW my Farther and his peers were led back into work, farming and the community in a way that saw our society prosper for 50 years. Government needs to have the balls to really go outside the square to get this wonderful country back on such a track.

Non of that addresses the issue at hand.
The woman murdered recently , forget the name, was murdered by some creep who was out on parole after killing someone else.
I'm fed up with this piss weak system to be honest, we need more justice and less "law"

explod · 12 December 2012

MrBurns said:
Non of that addresses the issue at hand.
The woman murdered recently , forget the name, was murdered by some creep who was out on parole after killing someone else.
I'm fed up with this piss weak system to be honest, we need more justice and less "law"

Well it is not going to change as things are heading. Of course such tyrants need to be locked away and the key thrown away too.

But lets look for some real change so that we stop breeding so many of them. Saying that you are sick of the "piss weak system" does not help.

Calliope · 12 December 2012

explod said:
Well it is not going to change as things are heading. Of course such tyrants need to be locked away and the key thrown away too.

But lets look for some real change so that we stop breeding so many of them. Saying that you are sick of the "piss weak system" does not help.

So what does ex-high-ranking-police-officer Mr Plod suggest we do to stop criminals breeding more criminals?

MrBurns · 12 December 2012

explod said:
Well it is not going to change as things are heading. Of course such tyrants need to be locked away and the key thrown away too.

But lets look for some real change so that we stop breeding so many of them. Saying that you are sick of the "piss weak system" does not help.

You can't correct this by consultation and counseling, this society breeds some bad people it always has, they need to be kept in cages away from the general public, no point spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on trials and wasting police time when they take a lenient attitude and let them out again.
That womans death was directly caused by the system as it stands now and you better look over your shoulder because you're at risk too as are all of us.

MrBurns · 12 December 2012

Why would you bother joining the police force.

Confessed drug trafficker walks free

A man who admitted to drug trafficking charges has had a case against him dropped.

A judge has ruled a police search was illegal.

In his own evidence, Michael Anthony Daniele, 27, from Ingle Farm in Adelaide admitted to packaging and transporting cannabis in a hire car, on the Stuart Highway near outback Coober Pedy last year.

At a District Court hearing at Port Augusta, Judge Michael Boylan said he was not convinced by Coober Pedy police statements that officers smelt cannabis in the car, as the drugs were in sealed packaging.

He said that gave them no reasonable suspicion to search the car, making the search illegal.

The evidence from the search was excluded and the case dropped

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-12-12/confessed-drug-trafficker-walks-free/4423220

pixel · 12 December 2012

The examples and cases given in this discussion make you ever so much more sympathetic to Sharia Law, don't they? Not all of it, to be sure; but if a crim would feel a few lashes on his back, maybe there'd be much less re-offending. Especially if reinforced by giving the chop to those parts of the body used in committing the crime.

Likewise, I think our legal system is going mad with making excuses for criminal acts: If a rapist did what he did because he was abused as a child, bring his abuser(s) to justice and apply the same punishment to them. That might, over time, reduce the number of backyard laboratories, drug dealers, scout masters, even priests, but overall, it would have a very sanitizing effect on society at large.

McLovin · 12 December 2012

MrBurns said:
Why would you bother joining the police force.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-12-12/confessed-drug-trafficker-walks-free/4423220

Good to see police being pulled into line for breaking the law.

MrBurns · 12 December 2012

McLovin said:
Good to see police being pulled into line for breaking the law.

Yep he's back on the street selling drugs to your kids

McLovin · 12 December 2012

MrBurns said:
Yep he's back on the street selling drugs to your kids

He wouldn't be if the police knew how to do their job or, even, basic laws covering reasonable suspicion.

Police have a long sordid history of corruption in this country, they have no right to be given a free pass for breaking the law.

explod · 12 December 2012

Calliope said:
So what does ex-high-ranking-police-officer Mr Plod suggest we do to stop criminals breeding more criminals?

I thought that I had made myself clear enough.

Governments and community focussed on providing better educational opportunities;

assistance, support and in some cases supervision for families at the lower end of the socio-economic scale;

deployment of all youth during their late education on community work;

at the first offender stage they be supervised by the state for more years for the community; (In fact those in gaol should be all doing productive work for the state)

and, instead of most politicians coming from the legal fraternity how about more from a sociological background.

And yes we could cut hands off, but that in my view will not deter the deranged in our society. It has been shown that heavy handedness merely displaces a problem and does not solve it.

Tink · 12 December 2012

McLovin said:
He wouldn't be if the police knew how to do their job or, even, basic laws covering reasonable suspicion.

Police have a long sordid history of corruption in this country, they have no right to be given a free pass for breaking the law.

Oh, come on -- and where would we be without the police.

Corruption in everything, doesnt mean you have to shoot down the lot.

Sentencing in Australia is a disgrace

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