Second stimulus package discussion

[gfresh]

Turnbull has some balls standing against the package. To be honest though, I think he has some valid points.

I don't think the near $10bn cash handouts part of the package are a good idea. While it may be nice, I think the money could be better put towards further infrastructure, or saved for later plans later on in the year. I think that is more likely to keep people in work, kick off further projects, or even cushion the recession slightly.

Here is a slightly random thought - $10bn would be enough to directly pay the salary of 200,000 people at $50,000 a year for 12 months. 30% of that money would come directly back the government in income tax. 70-90% would probably be spent, and somewhere near 30% of that would go back to the government indirectly in company taxes.

Cash payments are an individually greedy idea at the end of the day. We've seen them given out in the US last year.. they possibly gave some short-term reprieve, but several months on it's like they never existed.

 

[MrBurns]

Turnbull has some balls standing against the package. To be honest though, I think he has some valid points.

I don't think the near $10bn cash handouts part of the package are a good idea. While it may be nice, I think the money could be better put towards further infrastructure, or saved for later plans later on in the year. I think that is more likely to keep people in work, kick off further projects, or even cushion the recession slightly.

Here is a slightly random thought - $10bn would actually pay the salary of 200,000 people at $50,000 a year for 12 months.

Cash payments are an individually greedy idea at the end of the day. We've seen them given out in the US last year.. they possibly gave some short-term reprieve, but several months on it's like they never existed.

I agree this is all aimed at confidence. The Govt simply havent got the money to bail us out of this, problem is their lame attempts will burden future generations with enormous debt, Rudd doesn't give a root , this is his moment in the sun.

 

[gav]

I'd prefer income tax cuts for lower & middle class, I think that would stimulate the economy a lot more than simply giving people $950. As gfresh said, it only helps for the very short term and several months later we will see no benefits.

 

[juw177]

Reckless borrowing and spending is what caused this problem. And what do we do? Spend more money we don't have.

Deficit spending is extremely short sighted. It assumes that someone will lend us huge amounts of money and that we can pay the interest on it. You would think that the current rise in US treasury yields market may be of some warning to Rudd?

We need to do the opposite, that is, encourage savings and cut back public sector spending. There is no other way to weather this out.

 

[Dowdy]

Some things are good like the infrastructure spending but the one-off hand outs are a waste and will make things worst.

Instead of the free insulation, he should of done free water tanks. Water is alot more precious then saving energy

This won't stop a recession. Will probably make it worst since he's trying to stop the market response for decades of excessive spending and debt

 

[CoffeeKing]

I agree this is all aimed at confidence. The Govt simply havent got the money to bail us out of this, problem is their lame attempts will burden future generations with enormous debt, Rudd doesn't give a root , this is his moment in the sun.

Could this mean that when the Govt run out of money to hand everyone and
we are in the deepest of it, next election will the masses turn on the ALP "cause they got no more"
and get the LIBS in hoping they might have a few squillion tucked away somewhere?

 

[cuttlefish]

The only result I can see after spending $4 billion on insulation is that all the businesses that were created as part of the exercise will fold afterwards, all of the people that were working putting in the insulation will be out of a job afterwards, and all that will be left are some well insulated homes.

Nothing to pin any kind of future on, nothing to build on, nothing to utilise, no seeds of growth planted, its highly unlikely any innovations will have resulted from it, nobody reskilled or educated as a result of it.

Just a lot of insulation bats in roofs.

Clearly the best thing to save the nation.

It is demented.

I hope that this part at least gets excised out.

Geez build the railways up in the Northern territory to exploit the minerals out of there. Or build a gas pipeline up to Asia. Solve water and erosion problems. Spend on a complete overhaul and consolidation of health administration in Australia and related health services which are back in the 19th century in a lot of instances - this will encourage all sorts of innovation - health is an area crying out for innovative ideas and any significant spending will result in all sorts of side benefits and will likely create lasting, internationally competitive businesses. It will also help out all of the ageing Australians that will need those health services.

But no lets put the money into pokies, alcohol and insulation bats - in quantities unheard of.

What a disgraceful waste of years of Australian productivity and savings - current and future. Banana republic here we come.

Someone wake me up ... or is it April 1st? ... or did the Chaser team somehow manage to take over the Australian media for a day?

 

[juw177]

Some things are good like the infrastructure spending

No. Infrastructure spending is only good if there is a demand for it and right now there is little. Every dollar the government spends is one less dollar for more essential social services later. We taxpayers will end up paying it all back plus interest.

Building bridges to nowhere will only make the recovery take longer.

 

[gfresh]

The insulation scheme reminds me of the water tank scheme they had up here.

Worked great for a few businesses, made some in the industry very rich for some 12 months. They had to employ extra workers, etc to cope with demand.. so in theory it worked out fairly nicely when it lasted. But at the start of this year the QLD government canned the rebates, these businesses went bankrupt, laid off staff, and as they thought the times would never end, they never really had a contingency.

 

[Nyden]

No. Infrastructure spending is only good if there is a demand for it and right now there is little. Every dollar the government spends is one less dollar for more essential social services later on and that does not factor in interest on the deficit.

Building bridges to nowhere will only make the recovery take longer.

Well, although I don't think the handout is entirely a good thing - I most certainly want it, and I believe it will sincerely help a lot of people.

Students could certainly use it - to help with fees, books, computers, rent, you name it; students need it.

A thought has occurred, what about those that have jumped the gun and already spent it? Irresponsible, yes - but surely there are quite a few out there, who in the excitement of it all went out and bought that new TV ... only to find out that they might not get the money now

I know I'm certainly peeved. I was all thrilled yesterday, and now I'm just somewhat distraught. Dangle a $1900 carrot in front of my face, and now Turnbull wants to take it away - one can only imagine these sorts of feelings are amplified across the voting public. The man has just commited political suicide, I'm afraid.

I think infrastructure spending is a fantastic thing, people were calling for this not too long ago! Now, all of a sudden people are arguing against it. It's irrelevant if the infrastructure will be used at this time, the point is that it will be ready for when the recovery begins - hopefully this will prevent another blooming 'boom/bust' scenario!

The reality is, what Australia does, or doesn't do - has nearly nill effect on the world economy. Australia is dependant on the world economy, it really is as simple as that. Creating (even temporary) jobs, and at least lessening the fall can only be a good thing, surely.

Finally, if we do nothing - we're stuffed anyway. If this thing drags out long enough, the AUD will be devalued to a point where none of this will matter for many, many years

What can I say? It's unlikely that I'll ever turn down $1900. Darn, I really am annoyed. I got all excited for potentially nothing ... perhaps I can sue the federal government for mental anguish.

 

[SenTineL]

Turnbull is a jackass.

What has he offered as an alternative? Do nothing while every other country is doing similar things?

 

[Nyden]

Turnbull is a jackass.

What has he offered as an alternative? Do nothing while every other country is doing similar things?

Oh, that reminded me!

On the ABC interview tonight, he mentioned how unlike Australia was to the US. To me, that sounded a little too much like the spin they were spouting a while back - about Australia being immune. I really think he's underestimating as to how bad it could get here.

 

[Grumpy Old Man]

Oh, that reminded me!

On the ABC interview tonight, he mentioned how unlike Australia was to the US. To me, that sounded a little too much like the spin they were spouting a while back - about Australia being immune. I really think he's underestimating as to how bad it could get here.

I dont think he was saying that. More that we might need to do something else in 6 months time and if we spend all the money now - where do we go next? Borrow another trillion $???

And how do we pay it back?

Personally, I earn and pay tax and would like to understand a few of the details. Given that I am working and paying tax, I dont have time. So I am glad Turnbull is sticking his knackers on the line to do it for me.

 

[nunthewiser]

Bugga the insulation . what australia needs is .........LAMB CHOPS !

 

[juw177]

Turnbull is a jackass.

What has he offered as an alternative? Do nothing while every other country is doing similar things?

How is it working in these "other countries" and the markets? Are you talking about the US tax payer money that went into a black hole that is the Federal Reserve?

The alternative is to cut back public spending and encourage savings. We can take the hit now and get it over with or we can go in more debt, dragging this on for many years to come.

 

[Calliope]

Rudd and Swan are convinced that they can spend their way out of recession, and they admit they don't know if it will work. But they say it has to be done urgently just in case it does work. If it fails, and it probably will, they think they can at least fall back on the gratitude of those who get the handouts.

A large part of the 28 billion going on infrastructure will go down the gurgler. Like all money spent in a hurry there will be little control on waste, graft and bad management. Governments are notoriously bad at getting value for the taxpayers buck.

I am disgusted that this naive, inexperienced government can impose this horrific debt on taxpayers and future taxpayers.

 

[juw177]

The AUD has declined 20% against the Yen and 15% against USD in the last 30 days. That is what the market thinks of our stimulus.

 

[CoffeeKing]

Rudd and Swan are convinced that they can spend their way out of recession, and they admit they don't know if it will work. But they say it has to be done urgently just in case it does work. If it fails, and it probably will, they think they can at least fall back on the gratitude of those who get the handouts.

A large part of the 28 million going on infrastructure will go down the gurgler. Like all money spent in a hurry there will be little control on waste, graft and bad management. Governments are notoriously bad at getting value for the taxpayers buck.

I am disgusted that this naive, inexperienced government can impose this horrific debt on taxpayers and future taxpayers.

it's called "The labor party"

 

[moXJO]

Turnbull is a jackass.

What has he offered as an alternative? Do nothing while every other country is doing similar things?

Are you kidding me.... I for one do not want $42b rushed through with no thought. I don't disagree with all of the package. But at the same time, I can see us heading into a lot more debt down the track after we blow this lot.

 

[grace]

I think I might have to vote for Kev.

$4000 in Dec (I've got 4 young children)

$5700 over the next few months (you know, they are off to School, and so on and so forth).

Do I need it? No......why don't they asset test these things.....

I'll save every cent though Kev, buy some shares for the kids when the time is right.

Money should have been put into health. Good that money is being spent on buildings in Schools.

Vote for Kev,......NEVER.