Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

Second stimulus package discussion

I guess the only saving grace for Australia is if we can string our debt on debt out for long enough, eventually the global cycle will swing back our way and we can use our big holes in the ground to pay it all off again ... what a clever country we are.:rolleyes:
 
Yesterday our news bullitin friends here, Compare Shares, reported that US senators were trying to explain to the average Joe how much a trillion dollars is. So they gave the example that laying dollar notes end to end would go around the Earth over 38 times. I suggest Mr Rudd should use Uranus as an example for Oz.

Be careful how you pronounce Ur-anus. :D
 
I agree with the quality of Labour MP's but irrigating the Darling - Murray with Northern Australia's floodwater would create a world food bowl creating many more permanent jobs for our kids future not just the current drop in the ocean effect, the typical Labour management of finances is to spend now on anything and pay later with increased taxation etc.

I read somewhere, that ancient Persia( now Iran) like many centuries ago(maybe even in BC times), the region was crippled by droughts & lack of rain, so the rulers of the day, in their wisdom & foresight, built aqueducts or similar from the mountains to the lowlands I turned the area into flourishing agriculture area. It might have even been a main contributor to the rise of the ancient Persian Empire. I don't know how long it took or how may slaves used etc.

It could be a load of bunk but I'll try to find more details. If true interesting how the ancients had it seems greater vision than today's leaders.... or maybe just plenty of slaves!
 
...The only result I can see after spending $4 billion on insulation is that all the businesses that were created as part of the exercise will fold afterwards, all of the people that were working putting in the insulation will be out of a job afterwards, and all that will be left are some well insulated homes...

If lots of people were feeling hot and bothered and had considered getting roof insulation OR a small aircon, what solution might they now plump for?

They can either fork out $1,000-1,500 for a small aircon, OR get roof Batts, essentially for FREE. I think I know which way the aircon industry might go from here & it won't be up. I wonder how many aircon installers and associated industries will now close down?

Let's face it, the pollies are all exhorting us to NOT use aircons when it gets hot anyway!

Of course, the gummint would have considered this side effect of "insulating" Oz from the dreaded "R" word.

Sure. They're clever.

:cool:
 
What I want to know is what happened to Rudd being an economic conservative? Wasn’t he spouting this off during the election?
I also have a problem having any faith in Swan. I remember Costello mentioned a financial tsunami was headed our way a while back. But didn't Swan say we were light years away from a recession? It feels like there is no well thought out economic leadership. And I doubt the libs would be better off in control at the moment either.
And the RBA didn't help with pushing interest rates up so high. Was it timed right? Or did it put economic activity in a tailspin considering how low it has gone now? Did they just get it wrong?
I suppose it did reign in debt and stop people splurging but now they are trying to do the opposite:confused:
 
I also have a problem having any faith in Swan. I remember Costello mentioned a financial tsunami was headed our way a while back. But didn't Swan say we were light years away from a recession? It feels like there is no well thought out economic leadership. And I doubt the libs would be better off in control at the moment either.

Swan's an idiot, totally clueless.
 
Perhaps there is sense in building infrastructure now which will be needed when the recovery occurs.

Right. In essence, we are burning up future demand now which will result in less jobs in the future.

This "want it now" attitude is the reason for the slump. If you buy a TV this month, you won't buy one the next. And we have already bought enough stuff that we don't need.
 
Swan's an idiot, totally clueless.

Rudd and Swam both wait until after the **** hits the fan, then quickly scramble to come up with a policy, add a heap of spin and trick the majority of people into believing they saw it coming.

Furthermore Rudd has got to be one of the most uninspiring people on the planet, when he talks its basically monotone, he has no enthusiasm or energy in his voice and he comes across as weak.

Given the economic conditions we need strong leadership, we need someone to speak with conviction and say regardless of the situation life goes on and we will come out of this stronger, we do have a proper plan, we will implement it properly. This then needs to be followed through with actions.

Rudd is all talk, he has flown around the world numerous times to have his photo taken with leaders, called numerous summits and talk sessions, including the 2020 summit which was just a bunch of his mates (who already agree with him) and therefore no debate was stimulated. They should have just called it an agreement session, where everyone sits around and agrees with Rudd. If we follow Rudds line of thinking all we would believe is: The worlds doomed because of climate change, the worlds doomed because of the economic situation, the worlds doomed because of capitalism, the worlds doomed because the liberals delivered 10 yrs of economic growth, with low unemployment and economic prosperity, the worlds doomed because of this that and the other.
 
Rudd and Swam both wait until after the **** hits the fan, then quickly scramble to come up with a policy, add a heap of spin and trick the majority of people into believing they saw it coming.

Furthermore Rudd has got to be one of the most uninspiring people on the planet, when he talks its basically monotone, he has no enthusiasm or energy in his voice and he comes across as weak.

Given the economic conditions we need strong leadership, we need someone to speak with conviction and say regardless of the situation life goes on and we will come out of this stronger, we do have a proper plan, we will implement it properly. This then needs to be followed through with actions.

Rudd is all talk, he has flown around the world numerous times to have his photo taken with leaders, called numerous summits and talk sessions, including the 2020 summit which was just a bunch of his mates (who already agree with him) and therefore no debate was stimulated. They should have just called it an agreement session, where everyone sits around and agrees with Rudd. If we follow Rudds line of thinking all we would believe is: The worlds doomed because of climate change, the worlds doomed because of the economic situation, the worlds doomed because of capitalism, the worlds doomed because the liberals delivered 10 yrs of economic growth, with low unemployment and economic prosperity, the worlds doomed because of this that and the other.

Good post, sums up the present situation very well.
 
Could I get insulation for my car?


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This package is the most irresponsible economic pile of claptrap produced by Keynesian lemmings, that this country has ever seen. There may be merit in boosting infrastructure spending (there always is justification for that) but the pork barrelling give aways indicates the total lack of experience and naievity that these politicans exhibit. It will not have any positive impact on the world's state of finanical affairs (Australia is irrelevant in thie equation)and is simply a populist exercise on the masses, who have about as much knowledge of finance and economics as a gnat. (that does not include ASFers, who are a very knowledge bunch - maybe we should be running the country).

The commentators, as usual, as slamming Turnbull. Of course, they have all lived through a recession/depression and have the wisdom of Solomon. But politics aside, it strikes me that this man has more credibility in finance and Australia's future wellbeing than this lot. Keynesian policies might work to tinker the levers wheels and buttons but have never worked when things get critical. And it strikes me as ironic that these people really believe that spending the future wealth of Australia is going to get them out of this mess. They must have a greater sense of their own (and Australia's) importance than everyone else on the planet.

None of this will work, and thanks to these policies, the country is inextricably sliding into the mud.

Even though (some) people say the USD will tank, and maybe it will, the US bond yield is increasing. IMHO I think the world will see a period of deflation followed by potentially severe inflation. At the same time the AUD is probably heading for the low 50s (maybe lower). This does not bode well for Australia, and the krudd/duck policies will hasten this decline. And leave a lasting debt for the future. Of course, there is a theory going around that this is exactly what these Keynesians are all about (debt reduction via inflation).

If any of this is true, and I suspect it is, then every single person over the age of, say 50, should be extremely worried by this government's policies. You're savings/superannuation are rapidly erroding. I hope you like working. And every single person under the age of, say 50, should be extremely worried by this governemnt's policies. You will have a massive debt burden. I hope you like working.

This bunch of nincompoops has to be, as cuttlefish says, physically restrained. What really worries me though is that the great unwashed out there think that krudd/duck/and the woman with the horrible voice, are doing a good job. Have a look at the newspaper polls. Just shows how easy it is to corrupt the Australian dumbed down population via bribery. There is no hope and the light at the end of the tunnel is surely a large freight train.

It seem to me that virtually a 100% of ASFers hold the view (and lets face it, we are a pretty intelligrent buch) that this lot are practicing economic vandalism. So what are we going to do about it? :confused: Hmmmmm!
 
This package is the most irresponsible economic pile of claptrap produced by Keynesian lemmings, that this country has ever seen. There may be merit in boosting infrastructure spending (there always is justification for that) but the pork barrelling give aways indicates the total lack of experience and naievity that these politicans exhibit. It will not have any positive impact on the world's state of finanical affairs (Australia is irrelevant in thie equation)and is simply a populist exercise on the masses, who have about as much knowledge of finance and economics as a gnat. (that does not include ASFers, who are a very knowledge bunch - maybe we should be running the country).

The commentators, as usual, as slamming Turnbull. Of course, they have all lived through a recession/depression and have the wisdom of Solomon. But politics aside, it strikes me that this man has more credibility in finance and Australia's future wellbeing than this lot. Keynesian policies might work to tinker the levers wheels and buttons but have never worked when things get critical. And it strikes me as ironic that these people really believe that spending the future wealth of Australia is going to get them out of this mess. They must have a greater sense of their own (and Australia's) importance than everyone else on the planet.

None of this will work, and thanks to these policies, the country is inextricably sliding into the mud.

Even though (some) people say the USD will tank, and maybe it will, the US bond yield is increasing. IMHO I think the world will see a period of deflation followed by potentially severe inflation. At the same time the AUD is probably heading for the low 50s (maybe lower). This does not bode well for Australia, and the krudd/duck policies will hasten this decline. And leave a lasting debt for the future. Of course, there is a theory going around that this is exactly what these Keynesians are all about (debt reduction via inflation).

If any of this is true, and I suspect it is, then every single person over the age of, say 50, should be extremely worried by this government's policies. You're savings/superannuation are rapidly erroding. I hope you like working. And every single person under the age of, say 50, should be extremely worried by this governemnt's policies. You will have a massive debt burden. I hope you like working.

This bunch of nincompoops has to be, as cuttlefish says, physically restrained. What really worries me though is that the great unwashed out there think that krudd/duck/and the woman with the horrible voice, are doing a good job. Have a look at the newspaper polls. Just shows how easy it is to corrupt the Australian dumbed down population via bribery. There is no hope and the light at the end of the tunnel is surely a large freight train.

It seem to me that virtually a 100% of ASFers hold the view (and lets face it, we are a pretty intelligrent buch) that this lot are practicing economic vandalism. So what are we going to do about it? :confused: Hmmmmm!

Partake in interlocutorial intercourse?

:)
 
Rudd's policy (unlike God's) is to help people who won't help themselves. In a country of heat extremes like ours who are these people who have never bothered to have their homes insulated? As rental houses don't qualify for the handout it won't help the very ones it could benefit either.
 
It seem to me that virtually a 100% of ASFers hold the view (and lets face it, we are a pretty intelligrent buch) that this lot are practicing economic vandalism. So what are we going to do about it? :confused: Hmmmmm!

Nice post but it would have been better if you would have devoted even a little of it to suggestions of a better alternative.
You can't be an ostrich in these times.
I'm sure you can agree that the best and most logical way of trying to soften the blow to the economy is to go and build something that will benefit society and which is something that we NEVER do in boom times when we are trying to break budget surplus records.
As for the cash give aways, you do need instant measures to ensure the money will keep circulating. That is why we won't get any because they know that we will either pay down debt or save.
IMV,inaction is the danger here, not if we overspend by a few billion.
The boom will be back and my kids will be happy to sacrifice a bit of hard earned to pay for the work entailed in ensuring their future education,health and economic welfare have been met :)
 
Nice post but it would have been better if you would have devoted even a little of it to suggestions of a better alternative.
You can't be an ostrich in these times.
I'm sure you can agree that the best and most logical way of trying to soften the blow to the economy is to go and build something that will benefit society and which is something that we NEVER do in boom times when we are trying to break budget surplus records.
As for the cash give aways, you do need instant measures to ensure the money will keep circulating. That is why we won't get any because they know that we will either pay down debt or save.
IMV,inaction is the danger here, not if we overspend by a few billion.
The boom will be back and my kids will be happy to sacrifice a bit of hard earned to pay for the work entailed in ensuring their future education,health and economic welfare have been met :)

I guess there's always war:eek:
 
Nice post but it would have been better if you would have devoted even a little of it to suggestions of a better alternative.
You can't be an ostrich in these times.
I'm sure you can agree that the best and most logical way of trying to soften the blow to the economy is to go and build something that will benefit society and which is something that we NEVER do in boom times when we are trying to break budget surplus records.
As for the cash give aways, you do need instant measures to ensure the money will keep circulating. That is why we won't get any because they know that we will either pay down debt or save.
IMV,inaction is the danger here, not if we overspend by a few billion.
The boom will be back and my kids will be happy to sacrifice a bit of hard earned to pay for the work entailed in ensuring their future education,health and economic welfare have been met :)

Well, yes, I did agree that infrastructure spending in not a bad thing. However, I cannot agree that handouts are anything more than that. They dont do much apart from lining the pockets of gambling owners in NSW:mad:, and funnel debt overseas. If handouts are so wonderful then why not give to everyone on the proviso that they have to spend on consumables. And what differentiates the so called rich against the poor with regards to this sort of claptrap policy on the run. By the way have you asked your kids about this sacrifice? If you have, and they said fine, then all I can say is well done for bringing with such a fine sense of civic duty :D. And forget about the "boom will be back". That's years away, and besides I hardly think this last "boom" really had any lasting long term benefit for Australia. IMO it was an opportunity lost by government.

As for a "better alternative", that's not my job. ;) But I will say that if the politicans followed Austrian economic theory rather that Keynesian, then IMO we would not even be in this mess. Although having said that, so would other countries.
 
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