Same sex marriage - Yes or No?

Value Collector · 17 August 2017

Tink said:
VC, so you would give your children to the state to be raised?

You don't think children should be raised by their parents?

How much is the taxpayer paying for these peoples lifestyles?

Too many rights and not enough responsibilities.

As over hang said, this isn't about children, but yes I trust the education system to provide education, it's impossible for parents to teach their children everything.

Eg. I doubt your kids received a balanced view on sexuality from you, I sure hope none of your children or grandchildren are born gay, other wise you are going to mess them up.

Also, your organization has already let children down, while your complaining that we want to teach adolensents theory lessons on different sexualities, your church has been giving them practical lessons on paedophile behaviours.

SirRumpole · 17 August 2017

Value Collector said:
but yes I trust the education system to provide education, it's impossible for parents to teach their children everything.

I certainly wouldn't trust people like this to educate children.

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/s...founder-roz-ward-removed-20161216-gtctgs.html

Tink · 17 August 2017

I already added this from the ABC
http://www.mamamia.com.au/the-coupl...for-the-sole-purpose-of-sexually-abusing-him/

--------------------------

Off topic - are the state schools running our traditions/public holidays in the schools?
They are a part of our nation.
If not, make them private.

basilio · 17 August 2017

Thanks for the reference Tink to the couple who bought a child to abuse it. Ugly....
For the record I think it is worth quoting what Mia Freedman had to say about the story.

Note from Mamamia Publisher, Mia Freedman: The depravity and pure evil of this story is hard to comprehend. You are probably reeling right now – just as we are. And you should be. What happened to this little boy almost defies words.

But let’s be very clear that this post is in no way reflective of the vast majority of same-sex parents who adopt children or have them via surrogates.

Mark Newton and Peter Truong illegally ‘purchased’ a child and falsified birth documents in order to adopt him and remove him from Russia. For the sole purpose of sexually abusing him from the first weeks of his life.

Tragically, there are evil people in the world who should never have access to children. Sexuality is a seperate issue. Evil people come in all shapes, sizes, sexualities and genders. There have been heterosexual couples who have been convicted of similar heinous crimes as Newton and Truong. So while as a society we must do whatever we can to protect children and this story raises some hugely distressing and disturbing questions about how such a thing could happen, we will not allow any comments on this post that imply that there is a connection between homosexuality and pedophilia.

http://www.mamamia.com.au/the-coupl...for-the-sole-purpose-of-sexually-abusing-him/

SirRumpole · 17 August 2017

basilio said:
we will not allow any comments on this post that imply that there is a connection between homosexuality and pedophilia.

Isn't that pre judging the issue a bit ?

What if someone came up with a scientific correlation ?

I'm not saying there is one, but everything has to be looked at on its merits imo.

basilio · 17 August 2017

SirRumpole said:
Isn't that pre judging the issue a bit ?

What if someone came up with a scientific correlation ?

I'm not saying there is one, but everything has to be looked at on its merits imo.

Interesting observation Rumpy. What Mia Freedman was doing was running an absolutely appalling story of how two gay guys bought a baby and proceeded to turn it into a sexual plaything.
I can easily see how such a story would enable many people to conflate homesexuality with pedophilia - and Mia was totally determined that this wouldn't happen on her website.

Be interesting to see the response here..

Value Collector · 17 August 2017

SirRumpole said:
Isn't that pre judging the issue a bit ?

What if someone came up with a scientific correlation ?

I'm not saying there is one, but everything has to be looked at on its merits imo.

Pre judging would be assuming causation, before you had the scientific evidence that suggest causation (or correlation)

However, given that most child molestation cases involve straight males abusing females, would you seek to ban straight parenting?

I mean if it were shown scientifically that paedophiles tended to be straight men, would you seek to stop straight marriage? If not why not?

basilio · 17 August 2017

That was a devestating response VC. Certainly would make a rational person think very carefully before jumpng from gay parents to paedophiles..

SirRumpole · 17 August 2017

Value Collector said:
I mean if it were shown scientifically that paedophiles tended to be straight men, would you seek to stop straight marriage? If not why not?

Look at my post carefully. I made no correlation between paedophilia and marriage, or paedophilia and homosexuality, that was your typical straw man diversionary tactic.

My point was about self censorship on an issue even when evidence may exist to support a position that the owners of a blog may not like.

Value Collector · 17 August 2017

SirRumpole said:
even when evidence may exist to support a position that the owners of a blog may not like.

Evidence already exists that there is a correlation between straight men and paedophillia, do to the fact that most cases of child molestation are straight men abusing younger girls.

However, nobody accepts this as an argument against straight parenting.

But, the unfounded claim that gays are somehow more likely to be paedophiles is constantly thrown around, to the point that its exhausting, so I can see why a blog owner gets sick of addressing it, and would just ban it from the conversation.

I mean look at this thread, not a single valid argument against gay marriage has been raised, only claims about parenting and paedophillia and other red herrings, I can understand someone that wants to get to the bottom of a subject wanted to rule out the red herrings, and the end of the day it's their blog.

Tisme · 17 August 2017

Value Collector said:
Evidence already exists that there is a correlation between straight men and paedophillia, do to the fact that most cases of child molestation are straight men abusing younger girls.

However, nobody accepts this as an argument against straight parenting.

But, the unfounded claim that gays are somehow more likely to be paedophiles is constantly thrown around, to the point that its exhausting, so I can see why a blog owner gets sick of addressing it, and would just ban it from the conversation.

I mean look at this thread, not a single valid argument against gay marriage has been raised, only claims about parenting and paedophillia and other red herrings, I can understand someone that wants to get to the bottom of a subject wanted to rule out the red herrings, and the end of the day it's their blog.

You are very quick to defend homosexuals because they can't help what they are. so I'm guessing the same basis works for pedophiles?

he study in Springer’s journal Archives of Sexual Behavior adds to a growing body of evidence that suggests pedophilia develops prenatally, around the same time that such physical flaws develop.

“Evidence is steadily accumulating to support a neurodevelopmental basis of pedophilia,” says Dyshniku. “If we find that pedophilia has a biological basis, with a very early, even prenatal onset, this will influence and hopefully improve methods of treatment for this group.”

Facial anomalies could, among others, include having non-detached earlobes, malformed ears, or a high or steepled palate. These features develop during the sensitive first and early second trimesters while a baby is still in the womb, from the same primary embryonic tissue layer that gives rise to the central nervous system. They could develop because of prenatal exposure to viruses, alcohol or drugs, obstetric complications, or nutritional deficiencies. Such features are more prevalent among men, which might mean that the male brain is more susceptible to disruptive events during prenatal development.

https://www.springer.com/gp/about-s...likely-to-have-physical-irregularities/376770

SirRumpole · 17 August 2017

Value Collector said:
I can understand someone that wants to get to the bottom of a subject wanted to rule out the red herrings, and the end of the day it's their blog.

I guess it depends on whether PC should prevail over truth.

So if you ran a blog and a peer reviewed scientific paper was published that showed <insert minority group here> had a greater tendency towards pedophilia, would you publish it ?

Value Collector · 17 August 2017

Tisme said:
You are very quick to defend homosexuals because they can't help what they are. so I'm guessing the same basis works for pedophiles?

I already addressed this, I said someone who is a pedophile, has the right to life and to live free in society provided they never act on their urges, if they do assault a Child they should go to jail, perhaps for life.

But again, this is nothing to do with gay marriage.

Value Collector · 17 August 2017

SirRumpole said:
So if you ran a blog and a peer reviewed scientific paper was published that showed <insert minority group here> had a greater tendency towards pedophilia, would you publish it ?

Yes, but it would depend where it was peer reviewed, e.g. it has to be a credible reviewing organisation.

But until such a study existed, I might ban certain claims if they were constantly being brought up and were unfounded and had been debunked a 1000 times.

I mean what is the point of continually stating the same nonsense, certain claims can be delt with in a disclaimer linking you to a pre done explanation of why that claim is not accepted.

SirRumpole · 17 August 2017

Value Collector said:
I mean what is the point of continually stating the same nonsense, certain claims can be delt with in a disclaimer linking you to a pre done explanation of why that claim is not accepted.

Were all those Catholic priests who assaulted boys homosexuals do you think ?

grah33 · 17 August 2017

V C, what do you think about this?

should a christian minister be compelled to marry gays, or forward them to another minister who will, when both actions to him are against his religion? as i said before it is a bit like a jew having to eat pork .

this is happening overseas. christian charities have had to shut down e.g. christian orphanages, and christian marriage counseling services. the 'pious' wedding photographer who just can't take pics of 2 men together is getting in serious trouble with the law.

Smurf1976 · 17 August 2017

grah33 said:
should a christian minister be compelled to marry gays, or forward them to another minister who will, when both actions to him are against his religion? as i said before it is a bit like a jew having to eat pork.

My personal view is that all this should be about removing anyone from being forced into any particular action.

So no churches being forced to marry gays if they're opposed to that but equally no forcing their religious views on others (eg gays) who disagree.

Wysiwyg · 17 August 2017

Be interesting to see what the television ratings were if the The Batchelor was a group of blokes vying for the big boy.

Value Collector · 18 August 2017

SirRumpole said:
Were all those Catholic priests who assaulted boys homosexuals do you think ?

I don't know, but remember a lot of little girls were abused also.

I think with the priests it is caused by a life of sexual repression that causes them to opportunistically act out.

It's a bit like other wise straight men in jail raping other men, or wanting blow jobs etc from other men.

Sexual repression does strange things.

Value Collector · 18 August 2017

grah33 said:
V C, what do you think about this?

should a christian minister be compelled to marry gays, or forward them to another minister who will, when both actions to him are against his religion? as i said before it is a bit like a jew having to eat pork .

this is happening overseas. christian charities have had to shut down e.g. christian orphanages, and christian marriage counseling services. the 'pious' wedding photographer who just can't take pics of 2 men together is getting in serious trouble with the law.

Religious marriage is a separate topic to legal marriage, we are discussing the rights of gays to have their marriages recognized by our government, whether a church recognizes it is irrelevant.

But churches already can deny people for any reason they want, because they are a private club.

Same sex marriage - Yes or No?