RNE - ReNu Energy

[StatsMan]

Re: GDY - Geodynamics Limited

There are definite advantages of 80 degree H2O if you use it to preheat water for use in conventional power stations. ie it takes less coal/gas etc to boil water if its already at 80 degrees, and also less CO2 emissions, which in itself has value.

They are also involved in geothermal heating for building complexes (currently exploring and developing a project in Madrid - Spain) where 80 degrees is fine to provide cheap/green heating for domestic use.

Check out the company web page for their recent announcements in regards to that project.

Aha! Excellent point... I hadn't considered the fact that they could couple it with a gas heating unit or similar to get the steam. Thanks! Also, I had another thought about GDY which I'd like to hear people's opinions on. Lets say (hypothetically) that they don't end up being able to build the infrastructure to connect their powerstation to the national grid, surely they could use the electricity for hydrolysis to split water into oxygen and hydrogen to produce clean fuel (?) Could this be another option for GDY?

 

[Smurf1976]

Re: GDY - Geodynamics Limited

Also, I had another thought about GDY which I'd like to hear people's opinions on. Lets say (hypothetically) that they don't end up being able to build the infrastructure to connect their powerstation to the national grid, surely they could use the electricity for hydrolysis to split water into oxygen and hydrogen to produce clean fuel (?) Could this be another option for GDY?

Technically it's very doable. But if they can manage the massive infrastructure to get a hydrogen industry up and running then, well, let's just say building a transmission line is an awful lot easier. Hydrogen's not exactly easy to transport which makes even a long transmission line seem comparatively attractive in most situations (there are some niche hydrogen applications that might be a goer however).

 

[ronnieling]

Re: GDY - Geodynamics Limited

Hi all,
From what I read, PTR are trying to do similar things, but are targeting shallow hot rocks that lie above the deeper, hotter granites. The idea is that this saves money because they don't have to drill so deep and don't go through so many drill bits etc. However, I found the story a little hard to follow, because these shallow hot rocks that PTR are interested in only have temperatures of like 60 degrees or 80 degrees... much lower than the 200-220 degrees that GDY is targeting. Now, PTR is quoting the temperature of the rocks, but also the thermal gradient (e.g. 180 degrees per km) as if this is the key to their energy generation. What I don't understand is how they will be able to generate power from 60 degree rocks? This won't generate steam. Are they planning to use some other method of power generation (i.e. by using air or something in conjunction with the thermal gradient)? How likely is this approach to succeed and will it hamper investment into GDYs much needed infrastructure to link them to the national grid?

What source are you reading and getting the 80 ° figure from?

Petratherm’s website (http://petratherm.com.au/projects/paralana.htm) has a figure for Paralana-1B at 60 °C. That’s for an exploration well drilled 3 years ago only to 500m to test the viability of the field. That well was extended to 1800m in 2006 and it reached 109 °C - enough to boil water.

You’ve got it right that geothermal gradient figures are critical because drilling is expensive and risky – Geodyanmics “lost” part of the drilling rig in Habenero-2 which set them back a wee bit.

The drilling rig for Paralana-2 (the main production well) was just secured from Ensign and that was announced on the ASX a few weeks ago (Geodynamics have their own, slightly more powerful rig by the same manufacturer which gave them a head start and is going to let them drill like crazy over the next year in Joloika). Paralana-2 is going to target a deeper formation than Paralana-1B and going by the geothermal gradient reached at 1800m (~50 °C/km) they’re estimating Paralana-2 to reach about 200 °C at their target depth of 3.6km. No funky Russian methods or milk pasteurisation required.

Paralana-2 is going to spud in Feburary 09 as the first production well and then Paralana-3 in early 2010 as the other well (you need one to pump the water in and then another to suck it back out the formation).

Have a look at the Petratherm Paralana Brochure – a corker image on Page 3
http://petratherm.com.au/brochures/PTRParalanabrochure.pdf

It shows the exploration well Paralana-1B, the Phase 2 expansion and the new well they are drilling in Feb.

Now to draw comparisons between the two, if Petratherm can get their estimated 200 °C at 3600-4000km, that’s on par with Habenero-2 at 4200km. We probably aren’t going to see Petratherm to start flowing in the Cooper until at least mid 2010 but the plan is there, they have enough funding to see them through then and the economics of the project at Paralana once the drilling has been completed are more favourable.

Network connection is a huge cost, you lose money in transmission, you lose power in transportation, stability is sketchy over long distances etc. Petratherm is located alot closer to Adelaide and the National Market than Geodynamics.

PIRSA’s Geothermal Department have a great map that demonstrates part of this
http://www.pir.sa.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0003/81327/geothermal_exploration.pdf

 

[StatsMan]

Re: GDY - Geodynamics Limited

Thanks smurf1976 and ronnieling,

great info!

Ronnieling - I think you may be right, that 80 degree figure was from something I dredged up off the web, so it might have been a little out of date

Cheers for the info.

 

[Smurf1976]

Re: GDY - Geodynamics Limited

Network connection is a huge cost, you lose money in transmission, you lose power in transportation, stability is sketchy over long distances etc. Petratherm is located alot closer to Adelaide and the National Market than Geodynamics.

I'm not certain of the locations of the various geothermal companies but being close to existing major transmission lines, and preferably near a major load, is certainly desirable.

Electrically, I'm very close to Sydney, Brisbane, Melbourne and Adelaide where I'm sitting right now - and that's in Tasmania. It's all one big interconnected system (though it has capacity constraints). But outback SA is in the middle of nowhere electrically and that's an additional cost.

For a medium scale (100 - 500 MW) plant there is certainly an advantage in being able to connect easily to existing transmission.

Larger than that is getting pretty serious, it's a major power station, in which case there will need to be new transmission built anyway unless it's right next to an existing plant that's being closed. But even then it's a lot cheaper to be building a 200km line than 2000km. A lot less problematic to keep it running too.

 

[StatsMan]

Re: GDY - Geodynamics Limited

I'm not certain of the locations of the various geothermal companies but being close to existing major transmission lines, and preferably near a major load, is certainly desirable.

Electrically, I'm very close to Sydney, Brisbane, Melbourne and Adelaide where I'm sitting right now - and that's in Tasmania. It's all one big interconnected system (though it has capacity constraints). But outback SA is in the middle of nowhere electrically and that's an additional cost.

For a medium scale (100 - 500 MW) plant there is certainly an advantage in being able to connect easily to existing transmission.

Larger than that is getting pretty serious, it's a major power station, in which case there will need to be new transmission built anyway unless it's right next to an existing plant that's being closed. But even then it's a lot cheaper to be building a 200km line than 2000km. A lot less problematic to keep it running too.

So what do you guys think - Is GDY likely to be providing power to the grid or is it just pie in the sky? It sounds like their are a lot of problems with the infrastructure (i.e. not just as simple as building some power lines).

 

[ronnieling]

Re: GDY - Geodynamics Limited

So what do you guys think - Is GDY likely to be providing power to the grid or is it just pie in the sky? It sounds like their are a lot of problems with the infrastructure (i.e. not just as simple as building some power lines).

http://www.petratherm.com.au/hotrock/economic.htm

The demand is definitely there and I think alot of it comes down to just the economics. Theres nothing challenging about building transmission lines to Habenero and Joloika; its at what price would it become viable?

ETS is going to have a big impact on whether GDY can supply this electicity at market prices.

 

[travwj]

Re: GDY - Geodynamics Limited

Geodynamics has taken an absolute belting this week. i think it got down to 89cents today. Is there any new news on the "proof of concept", and how far away are we from the new well being started. I am in this company for the long run, and don't have to sell, but it has been a very fast drop in to no mans land. Best of luck people, hopefully a bounce back soon, but i can't see it happening. Need a lot of good news to help it get back up a little.

Trav

 

[Hawkeye]

Re: GDY - Geodynamics Limited

Actually stopped at 77cents today Trav, but like you I'm in for the long haul. Will consider buying more at this price...could see it edge toward $1 toward the new year if we see some sort of pre-Christmas rally - however I would suggest that would be best case scenario and would need continued good news between now and then...unfortunately I can't see too many of the top 20 shareholders buying up big lots in the short term.

 

[Tysonboss1]

Re: GDY - Geodynamics Limited

Actually stopped at 77cents today Trav, but like you I'm in for the long haul. Will consider buying more at this price...could see it edge toward $1 toward the new year if we see some sort of pre-Christmas rally - however I would suggest that would be best case scenario and would need continued good news between now and then...unfortunately I can't see too many of the top 20 shareholders buying up big lots in the short term.

to many other bargins around at the moment, At the end on the day this is still a speccy stock,.... I hold a small parcel as a spec, but until it's producing income I won't be loading up,

 

[travwj]

Re: GDY - Geodynamics Limited

Has there been some bad news released that i don't know about?? Geo had dropped 12c then when i checked 12.20 WST...thats a decent drop on no news. We need some good news frm the cooper basin, but doesn't seem to be any at the moment. What is happening with the Closed loop test? will it ever go ahead?

Trav

 

[ronnieling]

Re: GDY - Geodynamics Limited

Funnily enough they came out with an announcement of largely positive news not too soon after your post.

A quaterly report was mailed out to shareholders about a fortnight ago detailing their plans to complete the closed loop test - it'll take a couple of weeks and the pump was sent back to Schlumberger. The new well thats being drilled today is to assess whether the resources in the Cooper are going to be viable to scale generation up past 50MW beyond 2012.

 

[Smurf1976]

Re: GDY - Geodynamics Limited

50MW is useful but it's not really that much. To put it into perspective, total demand across Qld, NSW/ACT, Vic, Tas and SA is about 26,970 MW right now. The major source of that is coal with gas and hydro supplying almost all of the remainder. Minor sources such as wind, bagasse and some small hydro plants are collectively supplying 223 MW at the moment.

50MW is where Victoria was with brown coal and Tasmania was with hydro in 1920. A foundation from which something much bigger was built but not in itself as major energy source by today's standards. So 50MW is a start, but they'll need to ramp up big time to turn that into a major energy source for Australia.

 

[travwj]

Re: GDY - Geodynamics Limited

That is true Smurf, 50mw is just a drop in the ocean...i thought this savana well was to test the boundries of the hot fractured rock, that have the temp that is needed...something like 200+ degrees. And if this well is sucsessful they can then drill another 10 wells, maybe it is more, between savana and habanero...please correct me if i am wrong. These 10 well should then beable to provide the steam they need to have 10 of the 50mW power plants, making it a 500mW power station...it then comes down to distance from population to transmit the power.

Trav

 

[Smurf1976]

Re: GDY - Geodynamics Limited

And if this well is sucsessful they can then drill another 10 wells, maybe it is more, between savana and habanero...please correct me if i am wrong. These 10 well should then beable to provide the steam they need to have 10 of the 50mW power plants, making it a 500mW power station...it then comes down to distance from population to transmit the power.

Sounds fine in theory. My point is just that they actually have to do the additional wells before it becomes significant - the first one is really just a pilot plant.

As for the transmission, technically very doable but it's a significant cost.

 

[thinker]

GDY GEODYNAMICS

i think is where we should put are money cause geothermal energy is the next in thing.... also they have got th grant from gov... i think for the labour party to keep greens happy they will have to go higher in carbon emission trading policies so companies like GDY will benifit. in the next few years..


let me know your views also can any onle tell me which other compaines do related work...

 

[long$$]

Re: GDY - Geodynamics Limited

It seems to me that there could be room for geothermal boosted by solar, since the major resource is in the desert with plenty of sun. The higher temps achievable should be more efficient - any thoughts on this?

 

[Justthinkin]

Re: GDY - Geodynamics Limited

I know a little about this technology. The hurdles are basically remoteness from conumers (and so large transmission infrastructure investment required), costs / risks associated with deep (as in really deep) drilling; getting energy to surface; efficiently converting energy all against a backdrop of competing with low (as in really low) cost coal fired electricity. Other than that I supposes its a wonderful idea.

Kevin Dudd has assisted the industry but the industry keeps stumbling... largely because of the cheap coal alternative.

For heavens sake if there are any greenies please don't give me the lecture about "but if we were to fully cost coal including the environmental damage blah blah blah..." I've heard it , understand it and agree with it. But today in tough economic times it is difficult to see all but the smallest projects get air play for political and demonstration pruposes only.

We do have a number of geothermal coys on the ASX including PTR and GRK. There is also a Victorian coy I think... there is an association also....google it!

Good luck. I'm not holding any geothermal.

 

[Naked shorts]

Re: GDY - Geodynamics Limited

well, this is a new company/technology. Do new companies/technologies get investment when the world is in a financial crisis?

Energy prices have come down (due to recession), making green alternatives less competitive in price.

There is no doubt this company has a future, but i think it is a bit to early to jump on for the ride

 

[ColB]

Re: GDY - Geodynamics Limited

I dont hold but some of you might be interested in this!

Hawaiian drillers hit magma chamber
Posted 10 hours 18 minutes ago

A drill team looking for geothermal energy in Hawaii has inadvertently given scientists a rare opportunity to study geological processes usually hidden deep underground.

The drill broke into a chamber of molten rock, which pushed back up the borehole before solidifying.

The rock temperature was 1,000 degrees.

Geologists normally have to study such rock when it has been exposed by millions of years of erosion and is cold and dead.

Scientists now want to turn the site on Hawaii's Big Island into a laboratory.

Source: ABC News Online