Resisting Climate Hysteria

[noco]

Sums up Bolt





http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Bolt

What really sets Bolt apart was speaking against Climate Change as a journalist but being paid by vested interests. He got pinged on the insiders by the other Jurno's

And this great article one of my all time favorites



http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/30182.html

It was interesting to read that article from start to finish and the comments that came thick and fast thereafter. There were more comments favouring Andrew Bolt than Luke Walladge.
It is most evident Luke Walladge is a socialist left and tarred with the same brush as David Maher who also is no fan of Andrew Bolt.
It is also common practice for the likes of Luke Walladge in an endeavour to silence their opponents, will use what ever method they can to intimidate and discredit the likes of Andrew Bolt. I doubt this would bother Bolt in the least. He would most likely laugh it off as a joke.
This recently happened on another ASF thread and I was so pleased to see Joe Blow, the moderator, pull that particular member into line for his personal abuse to another ASF member. We have not heard from that ASF member since.

 

[Julia]

I don't suppose you would consider cheap imports of food products has anything to do with a drop of in farmers in Australia! The increase in the Australia dollar to the Green back has not helped our exports. Good for importers though.

I know of a farmer in Victoria who ten years ago exported 150 tonne of asparagus each year to Japan. Japan can now buy it cheaper from Vietnam.

Go to Woolworths and you buy cheap imported prawns at half the price of Australian prawns. You buy a ham with local and imported products marked on the ham; it does not quote what content. Most of the various types of nuts are now imported from Vietnam. Banana farmers have had to fight tooth and nail to stop imports from the Philippines. We poduce more bananas than we can eat so why import?

Is it any wonder our farmers are growing broke. How many farmers will be in business in 10-20 years if this Labor Government continues to allow such imports of food products? At least we won't have to worry about using too much rural water from the Murray because we won't need it.

Noco, I understand what you're saying here, but don't we have to remember that we function in a global trading environment and imports from other countries are just as valid as our exporting to other countries. You really can't expect to have one without the other, and Australia without its exports is going to be in deep ****.

Besides, consumers demand a year round supply of pretty much everything
And doesn't it simply make sense? i.e. that when a fruit or vegetable is out of season here, there's a surplus in the northern hemisphere, so fairly obviously we can mutually benefit both countries by allowing in these imports.

During times of peak seasonal availability here, I don't see too many competing products from overseas. All up, it seems to me it's a pretty efficient system from everyone's point of view.

I don't see why farmers should necessarily be a protected species any more than the manufacturers of anything else.

Labor haven't been elected long, most of what happened occured during the Liberal watch. What will the Liberals do that is different, in my opinion they are less likely to do anything to help. Tell me I am wrong.

You're not wrong at all. I very much doubt the Libs would change much in this respect (unless perhaps they are desperate for Bob Katter's vote!)

 

[noco]

Noco, I understand what you're saying here, but don't we have to remember that we function in a global trading environment and imports from other countries are just as valid as our exporting to other countries. You really can't expect to have one without the other, and Australia without its exports is going to be in deep ****.

Besides, consumers demand a year round supply of pretty much everything
And doesn't it simply make sense? i.e. that when a fruit or vegetable is out of season here, there's a surplus in the northern hemisphere, so fairly obviously we can mutually benefit both countries by allowing in these imports.

During times of peak seasonal availability here, I don't see too many competing products from overseas. All up, it seems to me it's a pretty efficient system from everyone's point of view.

I don't see why farmers should necessarily be a protected species any more than the manufacturers of anything else.


You're not wrong at all. I very much doubt the Libs would change much in this respect (unless perhaps they are desperate for Bob Katter's vote!)

So Julia, what are you suggesting, we close down the farms and send our farmers to work in the mines and buy what ever food we can from overseas at cheaper prices? I really can't see that happening. Most farms are handed down from generation to generation
So what happens if or when when China pulls the pin on coal and iron ore shipments and it could happen, do we then try to resettle our farmers again?
What do you believe would happen if the Australian dollar went back to say half the US dollar like it was a few years ago? Yes, out imports would be dearer and our exports would be more competitive. Petrol would most likely be $3.00 + a litre.
I might question the effiency of the system in light of the likes of the USA who are still subsidising many of their industries. On a recent trip to the Philippines, I bought eight very cheap good quality shirts all made in the USA at half the Australian price. Given that the majority of our clothing comes from China. Now tell me how could they possibly compete with the cheap Filipino labour if the Yanks were not subsidising their clothing industry.
It does not appear to be on a level playing field when that happens.

 

[tothemax6]

On a recent trip to the Philippines, I bought eight very cheap good quality shirts all made in the USA at half the Australian price. Given that the majority of our clothing comes from China. Now tell me how could they possibly compete with the cheap Filipino labour if the Yanks were not subsidising their clothing industry.
It does not appear to be on a level playing field when that happens.

Better t-shirt making machines?

I thought this thread was about Climate change.

 

[noco]

Better t-shirt making machines?

I thought this thread was about Climate change.

Yes tothema, the thread is all about Climate Change which led to a statement made by Christine Jones that 10,000 farming families have left the agriculture sector in the past 5 years blaming the problem on drought.
My point came as a follow through, that many had left farming, not because of the drought, but from imported foods from oversaes. This led to my statement that the USA (as an example) heavily subsidise their manufacturing and agricultural industries.
I doubt the USA would have any better t-shirt making machines than the Chinese. There is still labour involved which is cheap in China and the Philippines. In the USA it is all about protecting jobs. Without it their unemployement would be sky high.
So I trust you understand the catalyst that triggered my diversion from the thread
which in effect is still related.
I repeat, we (Australia) do not operate on a level playing field and it is more a fact of competition from overseas which leads to our farming industry becoming unviable. If you were in business would you operate at a loss? I doubt it!!!!!!!

 

[noco]

Better t-shirt making machines?

I thought this thread was about Climate change.

Yes tothema, the thread is all about Climate Change which led to a statement made by Christine Jones that 10,000 farming families have left the agriculture sector in the past 5 years blaming the problem on drought.
My point came as a follow through, that many had left farming, not because of the drought, but from imported foods from oversaes. This led to my statement that the USA (as an example) heavily subsidise their manufacturing and agricultural industries.
I doubt the USA would have any better t-shirt making machines than the Chinese. There is still labour involved which is cheap in China and the Philippines. In the USA it is all about protecting jobs. Without it their unemployement would be sky high.
So I trust you understand the catalyst that triggered my diversion from the thread
which in effect is still related.
I repeat, we (Australia) do not operate on a level playing field and it is more a fact of competition from overseas which leads to our farming industry becoming unviable. If you were in business would you operate at a loss? I doubt it!!!!!!!

 

[noco]

Well, love him or hate him, Andrew Bolt has proved to the public what a 'FAKE' this Tim Flannery has turned out to be. His predictions on climate change which was acted upon by the eastern Labor states has cost the tax payers plenty of misdirected money. He shoild migrate to Siberia and stay there.


http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/.../comments/column_flannery_cant_take_the_heat/

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

I still reckon its all weather. Calamities such as the Rockhampton, Condamine, Theodore and St.George floods have been occurring for eons.

The main debate is whether they are on the increase, and whether we will "be rooned".

To this date, I have seen no evidence that can predict weather in to the future.

NEVER EVER SEEN EVIDENCE

Sorry for shouting, but none of the climate change believers predicted even 6 months ago, a cooler summer and floods in Queensland and a colder winter and snow in Europe and the USA, such as has occurred over the last 6 weeks.

I am predicting rain in Townsville tomorrow, with scattered showers on Sunday, fineing up to a generally blue sky week.

gg

 

[Smurf1976]

Sorry for shouting, but none of the climate change believers predicted even 6 months ago, a cooler summer and floods in Queensland and a colder winter and snow in Europe and the USA, such as has occurred over the last 6 weeks.

It's like being a stock market "expert" by claiming that whatever the market is doing at the moment is due to this, that or something else and presenting yourself as very knowledgeable on the subject but failing to predict anything before it happens, thus being COMPLETELY USELESS to anyone wanting to invest based on that advice.

If you look at the past few years then we basically had a "mania" in drought in terms of psychology. Much like those who believe xyz will never go down in price and will keep doubling every few weeks, some people actually did seem to believe that it would never rain again. Sadly, some of those people are in decision making positions and spent a fortune of taxpayers' money based on their being caught up in the mania.

 

[tothemax6]

Yes tothema, the thread is all about Climate Change which led to a statement made by Christine Jones that 10,000 farming families have left the agriculture sector in the past 5 years blaming the problem on drought.
My point came as a follow through, that many had left farming, not because of the drought, but from imported foods from oversaes. This led to my statement that the USA (as an example) heavily subsidise their manufacturing and agricultural industries.
I doubt the USA would have any better t-shirt making machines than the Chinese. There is still labour involved which is cheap in China and the Philippines. In the USA it is all about protecting jobs. Without it their unemployement would be sky high.
So I trust you understand the catalyst that triggered my diversion from the thread
which in effect is still related.
I repeat, we (Australia) do not operate on a level playing field and it is more a fact of competition from overseas which leads to our farming industry becoming unviable. If you were in business would you operate at a loss? I doubt it!!!!!!!

But why is this a bad thing? If the yanks want to subsidize our consumption of their food, why should we complain? It is only the yanks that suffer for this. Yes, it hurts the business of farmers, but they are only a minority, eaters are a majority. People do not have to become farmers.

 

[Wysiwyg]

I still reckon its all weather.
NEVER EVER SEEN EVIDENCE

Sorry for shouting, but none of the climate change believers predicted even 6 months ago, a cooler summer and floods in Queensland and a colder winter and snow in Europe and the USA, such as has occurred over the last 6 weeks.
gg

I don't believe the subject is centrally concerned with "predicting" weather. The main "concern" is what effect human pollution and deforestation is having on the planet.

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

I don't believe the subject is centrally concerned with "predicting" weather. The main "concern" is what effect human pollution and deforestation is having on the planet.

I must disagree with you.

The "warming mob" predict ruination based on carbon pollution alone, due to human intervention such as industrialisation and deforestation, farting, over-breeding and driving fast cars which attract wild women. The latter by the way lead to all the foregoing.

These as my ole mate Don Rumsfeld used say are the known knowns.

The warmers use too few inputs in to their models, and remember they are only models, not Mose's tablets from his tete a tete with God.

Its a bit like tech/a's attempts at present to humour the Gann folk on another thread.

Anything that happens weather or climate wise can be explained, just as with Gann they can whip out another coincidence to explain a change in the market.

Tim Flannery is talking about bloody Gaia now, for gawd's sake.

Its a flight to religion by lapsed Christians and folk gone broke trading the Gann method.

gg

 

[joea]

I don't believe the subject is centrally concerned with "predicting" weather. The main "concern" is what effect human pollution and deforestation is having on the planet.

Please do not shoot me down when i make the following comments.
There is always a healthy debate on this subject.

I see people commenting about climate change as a whole but I think there are two main elements....
1 The deforestation which may cause temperature increase, and if you look at the
science it probably does. (25%of our land mass has been cleared of forestation.
2 CO2 emissions. ( AND OTHER NASTY TYPES). CO2 in the atmosphere is an important
part of of the plant life, and as reforestation is implemented the Carbon will be
incorporated into the soil as DOC (dissolved organic carbon).
As mankind learns to respect the planet a little more ( a lot would be good) we will see
that the signs of an unhealthy planet start to dissipate.
I have mentioned this before. There is more happening in the last 10 years than the previous 50 years.
I believe in my lifetime we will see the beginning of a reversal.

Wysiwyg, has commented on pollution.
In the second world war there was a river in Britian so polluted that the navy would dock their ships there to clean the outside of the hull. That's unreal!!!
Cheers

 

[IFocus]

I don't believe the subject is centrally concerned with "predicting" weather. The main "concern" is what effect human pollution and deforestation is having on the planet.

This what I don't get...... all the argument on global warming when we are seeing the rapid expansion of depletion of the ecosystems required to support our existance.

The impact on the systems that support the human life form being ripped apart while the p!ssing arguments about data.

The rate of depletion of energy sources is beyond comprehension

Go to China and take a really deep breath without choking.............

The arguments are really all pointless as some point in the not so distance future ( 1 or 2 generations) we are all screwed.

Other than that everything is fine......

 

[IFocus]

Probably all true, but the only thing that separates Bolt from most journos is his politics. All the red and watermelon journos are guilty of the same... you just agree with their politics.

Did someone mention bias?

I would agree re the politics but I do read most of the conservative journos / publications of which there are some excellent content and argument.

Bolt's political views I understand but the shock jock aspect of his commentary I find disturbing.

This is a business model used around the world as a sure money maker by a number of media organizations (call me a snob) that dum's down the issues along the lines FX expressed in the immigrant thread.

Its all very subtle but sucks in an awful lot of people.

 

[Smurf1976]

But why is this a bad thing? If the yanks want to subsidize our consumption of their food, why should we complain? It is only the yanks that suffer for this. Yes, it hurts the business of farmers, but they are only a minority, eaters are a majority. People do not have to become farmers.

It leaves us incredibly vulnerable immediately in terms of national security (there have ALWAYS been wars and conflicts and sooner or later we'll be involved in another one, that is almost certain).

And longer term, we'll be in real trouble if the subsidies are cut off. Just like the Americans (and Australia) are today vulnerable should the Saudi's cut off the oil or the Chinese cut off the supply of rare earths (as they've sort of done...) or manufactured goods.

Depending on others for essential supplies carries huge risk. We can't even do it without conflict in our own country - look at the situation in South Australia with water. Qld, NSW and Vic could have South Australians dying of thirst if they wanted to, indeed they've come pretty close to doing so in recent years.

Just like NSW used to cut off the coal to Vic and SA until those states developed their own mines and became self sufficient. It caused real pain at the time, blackouts in SA and at one point the Victorians resorted to shovelling green timber soaked in oil into the boilers to try and keep the lights on. That game went on for half a century or so until Vic and SA were finally in a position to tell NSW where to shove their coal.

Then SA thought they'd try banning the supply of natural gas to NSW. And now, Tasmania experiences natural gas shortages every time there's a hiccup with production in Victoria (though of course there are no interruptions to Victorian consumers, it's just the supply to others that is cut back...).

There are countless such examples around the world and the lesson is clear. Depending on others for food, fuel or water is something that should be done only if there really is no alternative. Sooner or later, there will be some sort of "reason" why supplies are cut back or cut off entirely.

One of the problems I have with the climate change issue is the often stated notion that the Vic brown coal industry should be closed in favour of greater reliance on natural gas. Now, where are we going to get all that gas from? There certainly aren't enough known reserves in Vic, and nor are there in SA or Tas. Back to the old days of depending on supplies from interstate, avoiding which was the very reason the brown coal industry was set up in the first place.

And it's not just the politics, but other reasons too. Imagine if we were all depending on gas from Qld to keep the lights on in SE Australia at the moment? It's bad enough having one state under water, even worse if the rest of the country was literally left in the dark as a result.

 

[Julia]

Other than that everything is fine......

Well, thank goodness for that.
Sorry.

 

[Wysiwyg]

1 The deforestation which may cause temperature increase, and if you look at the
science it probably does. (25%of our land mass has been cleared of forestation.

Yes there is a price to pay for all steel, wood, plastic, rubber, glass, fuel & electricity we all consume at overall increasing rates.
I caught some of a program called 'Home' and saw aerial footage of Haiti as an example. I am sure there are other examples of a lesser extent.
Haiti residents only wanted wood to fuel their fires. An example of stupid human (of which we are all inherent sufferers) is consuming the whole damn forest. Stripped bare like locusts do a field.

In 1925, Haiti was lush, with 60% of its original forest covering the lands and mountainous regions. Since then, the population has cut down an estimated 98% of its original forest cover for use as fuel for cookstoves, and in the process has destroyed fertile farmland soils, contributing to desertification.

Trouble is, one human takes a fair bit of earth to live simply. Let alone living a lavish life with the cars, boats, planes and mod. cons.

 

[Wysiwyg]

The impact on the systems that support the human life form being ripped apart while the p!ssing arguments about data.

The rate of depletion of energy sources is beyond comprehension

Go to China and take a really deep breath without choking.............

The arguments are really all pointless as some point in the not so distance future ( 1 or 2 generations) we are all screwed.

That's right Focus. Slowly moving the wrong way and for the most part it seems the larger populated areas get swept along, *automaton like, oblivious or ignorant of the consequences. Placing their faith in the governing body.

"Man lives his life in sleep, and in sleep he dies. As a result of this condition, each person perceives things from a completely subjective perspective. Gurdjieff stated that maleficent events such as wars and so on could not possibly take place if people were more awake. He asserted that people in their typical state function as unconscious automatons, but that one can "wake up" and become a different sort of human being altogether.

 

[GumbyLearner]

That's right Focus. Slowly moving the wrong way and for the most part it seems the larger populated areas get swept along, *automaton like, oblivious or ignorant of the consequences. Placing their faith in the governing body.

People are moving very slowly where I am at present. Skiing home is an option.

Coldest winter in memory!

http://www.arirang.co.kr/News/News_View.asp?nseq=110698&code=Ne2&category=2

Freezing Low Temperatures in Korea
A cold snap is sweeping the nation on this Friday.
Morning temperatures in many regions around Korea dropped below minus ten degrees Celsius due mostly to a cold continental high pressure front.
Morning temperatures plummeted to minus 13.9 degrees in Seoul and minus 15 degrees in Daegwallyeong in Gangwon Province.
But with the wind-chill factor it is feeling much colder than the thermometer readings.
Afternoon temperatures are expected to remain low with most part of the country staying below zero.
Seoul will stay in a deep freeze at minus eight Celsius while Chuncheon is forecast to hit minus six and Daejeon minus four degrees.
This cold bout is expected to continue into Christmas Day with the mercury to remain around minus 10 degrees in most central regions.

DEC 24, 2010

AND IT HASN'T STOPPED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! DAMN RIGHT IT'S COOL!