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Then the changing share of annual CO2 emissions.
Resisting Climate Hysteria
- Thread starter Mickel
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And finally what is the historical overall contribution to CO2 emmissions ?
ourworldindata.org
United States: CO2 Country Profile
United States: How much CO2 does your country emit? Are emissions falling? How does it compare to other countries?
ourworldindata.org
Sean K
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The atmosphere doesn't care about per capita. I think it's pretty agnostic when it comes to total CO2 accumulation.
There's some very good reasons why we have a very high per capita rate, as we all know. But, Gaia doesn't care about that.
It won't be long before Asia's total accumulated CO2 will take over the rest of the World and the UN doesn't care.
IFocus
You are arguing with a Galah
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That chart shows the move of manufactured goods from the US to China.
Basically the west exported the Co2 production to China easy fix just stop manufacturing in China all good...
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The argument of many going back quite some decades now is that we should never have offshored manufacturing in the first place.Basically the west exported the Co2 production to China easy fix just stop manufacturing in China all good...
Doing so has hollowed out the working class, creating a society of haves and have nots, as the overall economy's been sustained by bidding up asset prices and selling off assets, notably but not limited to minerals, whilst shoving people into low value service industry work.
There's a lot of arguments against that without even mentioning climate.
Sean K
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That chart shows the move of manufactured goods from the US to China.
Basically the west exported the Co2 production to China easy fix just stop manufacturing in China all good...
Yes, the West didn't export CO2 to China, that was a by-product of reducing manufacturing costs in the West due to high material and wages inputs. China benefitted by building a huge industrial base, creating 100s of millions of jobs and dragging about 500m people out of poverty. It's meant China has become the second largest economy in the World, built arguably the largest Military in the World and is now bullying it's neighbours, militarised the SCS, has grand aims of World domination and will start WW3 when it tries to take Taiwan by force. Meanwhile, we've lost our industrial base and our rapid switch to RE has destroyed our energy security. A complete cluster f*ck all round.
IFocus
You are arguing with a Galah
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Yep pretty much, so stop buying cheap Chinese goods then, unfortunately you may have to take a drop in your standard of living.
wayneL
VIVA LA LIBERTAD, CARAJO!
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Just Stop Fossils?
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Fascinating. True but as usual with Ms Curry deliberately misleading.
I checked out the article and it is a valid new piece of research. The critical point as far as impact on global warming was the following observation by the scientists involved.
Professor Robert Hilton (Department of Earth Sciences, University of Oxford), who leads the ROC-CO2 research project that funded the study, said: “This is about 100 times less than present day human CO2 emissions by burning fossil fuels, but it is similar to how much CO2 is released by volcanoes around the world, meaning it is a key player in Earth’s natural carbon cycle”.
We can't stop volcanoes or rocks . We could do something about the human CO2 emissions which are 100 times larger.
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Totally agree there's a huge blind spot, an outright denial, on the part of those in the environment camp that they've laid the groundwork for major war. That's the inevitable consequence of de-industrialising the West but there seems to be absolute denial on that reality.
On the other hand, to be balanced, it's not all their doing by any means. Environmentalists may have cheered it on but in the Australian context it was Labor which decided to throw manufacturing under the bus and it was Liberal that decided to flog off natural resources. Stuffing up the energy industry was a joint effort and on that I know the story well. Labor and Liberal are both to blame and there's not much between them, both inflicted serious damage over an extended period.
Sean K
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It might have been a dream, but I just had a flashback that businesses were going to have to account CO2 emissions for their staff driving to work, or something. Anyone else have the same nightmare?
Sean K
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Peterson and Lomborg put some things into perspective.
Those being sucked into the global boiling narrative need to wake up and stop their scare campaigns for their own sake and for those of the children they are unnecessarily causing fear and psychological damage. Shame on them.
While watching the news, it is easy to believe the world is falling apart: climate change, political division, coups d’etat, the pandemic, Russia’s ruthless war on Ukraine, Hamas’s unjustifiable killings and the Middle East careering towards widespread violence.
Before panicking, it may be worth stepping back to get some perspective. Media-driven fear demoralises us – particularly when young – and engenders terrible political decisions by crippling our ability to do better.
War is endlessly and eternally horrific. It is understandable and even necessary that the media spotlights today’s conflicts.
But this can make us believe we’re living through unprecedented violence. Russia’s war indeed meant that battle deaths last year reached a high for this century, but they are still very low historically.
Last year, 3.5 in 100,000 people died as a consequence of war, below even the 1980s and far below the 20th century average of 30 per 100,000. The world has in fact become much more peaceful.
This is, of course, little consolation to those living amid the world’s conflicts. But the data speaks to the problem with the constant barrage of contextless catastrophe and doom. Analysis of media content across 130 countries from 1970 to 2010 indicates that the emotional tone has dramatically and consistently become more negative. Negativity sells but it informs badly.
The same pattern characterises climate change reporting. A pervasive and false apocalyptic narrative draws together every negative event – ignoring, almost entirely, the bigger picture.
In recent months, for example, fires have been highlighted without indication that the annual burned global area has been declining for decades, reaching the lowest last year.
Likewise, deaths from droughts and floods make headlines but we don’t hear that deaths from such climate-related disasters have declined 50-fold across the past century.
The data shows what we all fundamentally know: the world has improved dramatically. Life expectancy has more than doubled since 1900. Two centuries ago, almost everyone was illiterate. Now, almost everyone can read. In 1820, nearly 90 per cent of people existed in extreme poverty. Now it’s less than 10 per cent. Indoor air pollution has declined dramatically, and its outdoor equivalent has also done so in rich countries. If we could choose when to be born, having all the facts at hand, few would choose any time before today.
This incontrovertible progress has been driven by ethical and responsible conduct, trust, well-functioning markets, the rule of law, scientific innovation and political stability. We have to recognise, appreciate and proclaim the value and comparative rarity of each of these.
The constant barrage of negative stories may lead us to imagine that our progress is about to end. However, the evidence at hand does not support this conclusion.
The latest UN Climate Panel scenarios indicate that the average person will be 4½ times richer by the end of the century than today. Climate change will merely slow progress, such that the average person will be “only” 4.34 times as rich – by no means the end of the world.
Yet fear pushes many to demand an inefficient diversion of hundreds of trillions of dollars to steer the global economy abruptly towards zero carbon emissions.
We need to foster an environment that challenges fearmongering and promotes optimistic yet critical thinking and constructive discussion with regard to the future. We hope our new Alliance for Responsible Citizenship, which will host its first international conference in London next Monday to Wednesday, will be of aid in this regard, bringing people of goodwill and good sense together from around the world to formulate and communicate a positive vision of the future.
To drive progress for the world’s poorest, we should similarly focus on efficient and well-documented policies with enormous benefits. Working with more than 100 of the world’s top economists, one of us has helped identify the best solutions to many of the world’s most insidious problems: basic tuberculosis treatment that will save a million people a year, land tenure reform that lets poorer people reap the benefits, education technology that can deliver three times better learning outcomes, and more.
These policies don’t make for catchy headlines but they can do immense good: for a cost of $US35bn ($55.2bn) annually they would save an astounding 4.2 million lives and make the poorer half of the world $US1.1 trillion richer every year.
If we stop being fear-driven, and instead look to the data and the bigger picture, we can see the world is better than it was and is likely to get better still. We have a responsibility to adopt the very best policies to move ahead.
Bjorn Lomborg is president of the Copenhagen Consensus and visiting fellow at Stanford University’s Hoover Institution. His latest book is Best Things First.
Jordan B. Peterson is professor emeritus at the University of Toronto and author of Maps of Meaning, 12 Rules for Life and Beyond Order.
Those being sucked into the global boiling narrative need to wake up and stop their scare campaigns for their own sake and for those of the children they are unnecessarily causing fear and psychological damage. Shame on them.
While watching the news, it is easy to believe the world is falling apart: climate change, political division, coups d’etat, the pandemic, Russia’s ruthless war on Ukraine, Hamas’s unjustifiable killings and the Middle East careering towards widespread violence.
Before panicking, it may be worth stepping back to get some perspective. Media-driven fear demoralises us – particularly when young – and engenders terrible political decisions by crippling our ability to do better.
War is endlessly and eternally horrific. It is understandable and even necessary that the media spotlights today’s conflicts.
But this can make us believe we’re living through unprecedented violence. Russia’s war indeed meant that battle deaths last year reached a high for this century, but they are still very low historically.
Last year, 3.5 in 100,000 people died as a consequence of war, below even the 1980s and far below the 20th century average of 30 per 100,000. The world has in fact become much more peaceful.
This is, of course, little consolation to those living amid the world’s conflicts. But the data speaks to the problem with the constant barrage of contextless catastrophe and doom. Analysis of media content across 130 countries from 1970 to 2010 indicates that the emotional tone has dramatically and consistently become more negative. Negativity sells but it informs badly.
The same pattern characterises climate change reporting. A pervasive and false apocalyptic narrative draws together every negative event – ignoring, almost entirely, the bigger picture.
In recent months, for example, fires have been highlighted without indication that the annual burned global area has been declining for decades, reaching the lowest last year.
Likewise, deaths from droughts and floods make headlines but we don’t hear that deaths from such climate-related disasters have declined 50-fold across the past century.
The data shows what we all fundamentally know: the world has improved dramatically. Life expectancy has more than doubled since 1900. Two centuries ago, almost everyone was illiterate. Now, almost everyone can read. In 1820, nearly 90 per cent of people existed in extreme poverty. Now it’s less than 10 per cent. Indoor air pollution has declined dramatically, and its outdoor equivalent has also done so in rich countries. If we could choose when to be born, having all the facts at hand, few would choose any time before today.
This incontrovertible progress has been driven by ethical and responsible conduct, trust, well-functioning markets, the rule of law, scientific innovation and political stability. We have to recognise, appreciate and proclaim the value and comparative rarity of each of these.
The constant barrage of negative stories may lead us to imagine that our progress is about to end. However, the evidence at hand does not support this conclusion.
The latest UN Climate Panel scenarios indicate that the average person will be 4½ times richer by the end of the century than today. Climate change will merely slow progress, such that the average person will be “only” 4.34 times as rich – by no means the end of the world.
Yet fear pushes many to demand an inefficient diversion of hundreds of trillions of dollars to steer the global economy abruptly towards zero carbon emissions.
We need to foster an environment that challenges fearmongering and promotes optimistic yet critical thinking and constructive discussion with regard to the future. We hope our new Alliance for Responsible Citizenship, which will host its first international conference in London next Monday to Wednesday, will be of aid in this regard, bringing people of goodwill and good sense together from around the world to formulate and communicate a positive vision of the future.
To drive progress for the world’s poorest, we should similarly focus on efficient and well-documented policies with enormous benefits. Working with more than 100 of the world’s top economists, one of us has helped identify the best solutions to many of the world’s most insidious problems: basic tuberculosis treatment that will save a million people a year, land tenure reform that lets poorer people reap the benefits, education technology that can deliver three times better learning outcomes, and more.
These policies don’t make for catchy headlines but they can do immense good: for a cost of $US35bn ($55.2bn) annually they would save an astounding 4.2 million lives and make the poorer half of the world $US1.1 trillion richer every year.
If we stop being fear-driven, and instead look to the data and the bigger picture, we can see the world is better than it was and is likely to get better still. We have a responsibility to adopt the very best policies to move ahead.
Bjorn Lomborg is president of the Copenhagen Consensus and visiting fellow at Stanford University’s Hoover Institution. His latest book is Best Things First.
Jordan B. Peterson is professor emeritus at the University of Toronto and author of Maps of Meaning, 12 Rules for Life and Beyond Order.
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Fascinating Sean.
This line caught my eye. Where was this statement in the latest Climate Change Panel scenarios ?
As for the rest of the "Do better" policies ? Absolutely spot on. But they will mean nothing if the basic environment of large parts of the earth won't sustain life. And that is where we are going with global heating.
The latest UN Climate Panel scenarios indicate that the average person will be 4½ times richer by the end of the century than today. Climate change will merely slow progress, such that the average person will be “only” 4.34 times as rich – by no means the end of the world.
These are the major findings of the IPCC.
www.wri.org
Limiting global temperature rise to 1.5 degrees C (2.7 degrees F) is still possible, but only if we act immediately. As the IPCC makes clear, the world needs to peak GHG emissions before 2025 at the very latest, nearly halve GHG emissions by 2030 and reach net-zero CO2 emissions around mid-century, while also ensuring a just and equitable transition. We’ll also need an all-hands-on-deck approach to guarantee that communities experiencing increasingly harmful impacts of the climate crisis have the resources they need to adapt to this new world. Governments, the private sector, civil society and individuals must all step up to keep the future we desire in sight. A narrow window of opportunity is still open, but there’s not one second to waste.
This line caught my eye. Where was this statement in the latest Climate Change Panel scenarios ?As for the rest of the "Do better" policies ? Absolutely spot on. But they will mean nothing if the basic environment of large parts of the earth won't sustain life. And that is where we are going with global heating.
The latest UN Climate Panel scenarios indicate that the average person will be 4½ times richer by the end of the century than today. Climate change will merely slow progress, such that the average person will be “only” 4.34 times as rich – by no means the end of the world.
These are the major findings of the IPCC.
10 Big Findings from the 2023 IPCC Report on Climate Change
The latest IPCC report details the devastating consequences of climate change and highlights pathways to avoid dangerous and irreversible risks from rising greenhouse gas emissions.
Looking Ahead
The IPCC’s AR6 makes clear that risks of inaction on climate are immense and the way ahead requires change at a scale not seen before. However, this report also serves as a reminder that we have never had more information about the gravity of the climate emergency and its cascading impacts — or about what needs to be done to reduce intensifying risks.Limiting global temperature rise to 1.5 degrees C (2.7 degrees F) is still possible, but only if we act immediately. As the IPCC makes clear, the world needs to peak GHG emissions before 2025 at the very latest, nearly halve GHG emissions by 2030 and reach net-zero CO2 emissions around mid-century, while also ensuring a just and equitable transition. We’ll also need an all-hands-on-deck approach to guarantee that communities experiencing increasingly harmful impacts of the climate crisis have the resources they need to adapt to this new world. Governments, the private sector, civil society and individuals must all step up to keep the future we desire in sight. A narrow window of opportunity is still open, but there’s not one second to waste.
Sean K
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Fascinating Sean.
As for the rest of the "Do better" policies ? Absolutely spot on. But they will mean nothing if the basic environment of large parts of the earth won't sustain life. And that is where we are going with global heating.
The latest UN Climate Panel scenarios indicate that the average person will be 4½ times richer by the end of the century than today. Climate change will merely slow progress, such that the average person will be “only” 4.34 times as rich – by no means the end of the world.
These are the major findings of the IPCC.
10 Big Findings from the 2023 IPCC Report on Climate Change
The latest IPCC report details the devastating consequences of climate change and highlights pathways to avoid dangerous and irreversible risks from rising greenhouse gas emissions.
Looking Ahead
The IPCC’s AR6 makes clear that risks of inaction on climate are immense and the way ahead requires change at a scale not seen before. However, this report also serves as a reminder that we have never had more information about the gravity of the climate emergency and its cascading impacts — or about what needs to be done to reduce intensifying risks.
Limiting global temperature rise to 1.5 degrees C (2.7 degrees F) is still possible, but only if we act immediately. As the IPCC makes clear, the world needs to peak GHG emissions before 2025 at the very latest, nearly halve GHG emissions by 2030 and reach net-zero CO2 emissions around mid-century, while also ensuring a just and equitable transition. We’ll also need an all-hands-on-deck approach to guarantee that communities experiencing increasingly harmful impacts of the climate crisis have the resources they need to adapt to this new world. Governments, the private sector, civil society and individuals must all step up to keep the future we desire in sight. A narrow window of opportunity is still open, but there’s not one second to waste.
Yes, very fascinating, Bas.
But, as usual, you post up some fear mongering from the UN which doesn't actually address the real issue and is full of emotive language to try and scare the kiddies. How many more IPCC reports are going to say 'there's not one second to waste'. Wolf! Again and again.
Don't be scared boys and girls, you will have the longest life expectancy in history.
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Sean I'm glad for you mate. Seriously. You clearly need to see plenty of blue sky so creating a delightful play world that manages to ignore any possible unpleasantness must be a great salve for your conscience.
You've made it clear that you are very successful. You enjoy the good life traveling and I guess spending at will. Your posts make it clear you ignore any event that might spoil your vision. So Seans blue sky reality is definitely good for Sean.
wayneL
VIVA LA LIBERTAD, CARAJO!
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I guess just like Gates, Di'Caprio, Mann, Klaus et al, and King @#$&ing Charles.Sean I'm glad for you mate. Seriously. You clearly need to see plenty of blue sky so creating a delightful play world that manages to ignore any possible unpleasantness must be a great salve for your conscience.
You've made it clear that you are very successful. You enjoy the good life traveling and I guess spending at will. Your posts make it clear you ignore any event that might spoil your vision. So Seans blue sky reality is definitely good for Sean.
Sean K
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Sean I'm glad for you mate. Seriously. You clearly need to see plenty of blue sky so creating a delightful play world that manages to ignore any possible unpleasantness must be a great salve for your conscience.
You've made it clear that you are very successful. You enjoy the good life traveling and I guess spending at will. Your posts make it clear you ignore any event that might spoil your vision. So Seans blue sky reality is definitely good for Sean.
Thanks Bas, much appreciated. Australians in general are going to have an excellent next few centuries basking in the blue sky sun. We are probably going to do extremely well until the next ice age at which time the northern hemisphere will be migrating to the global south to escape the encroaching glaciation. Then, we'll have to worry about over population and a lack of resources and arable land. In the meantime, please enjoy.
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The earths magnetic poles, as distinct from the earths Geographic North pole, is a constantly moving point.
From Science - how stuff works
I found that last statement interesting, it did not say deffinitvely that the earth's magnetic field is not impacting climate, just there is no known mechanism. Most of the scientific literature support this view, though there are some who suggest the weakening in earhs magnetic field , particulary if it happens in conjunction with mass coronal ejection, allows a larger than normal number of high energy cosmic rays to interact with the atmosphere and causing clod formation. (Lorenzen Cooper , ACLUa nd Svensmark among others).
What is also in dispute is that the complete reversing of the poles does indeed have some big effects on the climate.
From Cosmos magazine
There have been on average around 460,000 years between reversals over the past 80 odd million years, thou they are statistically random events. As we are now over 760,000 years since the last one, statistically we are overdue a good reversal.
Mick
From Science - how stuff works
I found that last statement interesting, it did not say deffinitvely that the earth's magnetic field is not impacting climate, just there is no known mechanism. Most of the scientific literature support this view, though there are some who suggest the weakening in earhs magnetic field , particulary if it happens in conjunction with mass coronal ejection, allows a larger than normal number of high energy cosmic rays to interact with the atmosphere and causing clod formation. (Lorenzen Cooper , ACLUa nd Svensmark among others).
What is also in dispute is that the complete reversing of the poles does indeed have some big effects on the climate.
From Cosmos magazine
There have been on average around 460,000 years between reversals over the past 80 odd million years, thou they are statistically random events. As we are now over 760,000 years since the last one, statistically we are overdue a good reversal.
Mick
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Nah Sean. Lets be clear . You can believe whatever floats your boat. That doesn't make it real . The world will not magically adjust to Seans "CC is irrelevant/not serious/belief ".Thanks Bas, much appreciated. Australians in general are going to have an excellent next few centuries basking in the blue sky sun. We are probably going to do extremely well until the next ice age at which time the northern hemisphere will be migrating to the global south to escape the encroaching glaciation. Then, we'll have to worry about over population and a lack of resources and arable land. In the meantime, please enjoy.
Whatever extensions you make on your delusions are yours to have and hold - and certainly not mine. You will have to find your own community of shared delusionists if you want to spout forth about the excellent next few centuries Australia will have before an ice age.
Luckily ASF appears to be an excellent petri dish for your bent
_________________________________________________________________________________________________
As I was writing this post I remembered a pertinent scene from Ozark which I have been following.
A guy has a very overbearing, high control mother. She has been dominating his life for years. He finally decides to "stand up for himself"
So he is out on the sidewalk trying to get his mother to understand a particular point. Mum wants nothing to do with this. She sticks her fingers in her ears, going LaLaLaLa and dances around to show she aint listening to this rubbish.
Seconds later a truck comes down the road and cleans her up. She has danced out onto the road. Can't hear the truck (obviously) and fate takes its course.
Sean K
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Nah Sean. Lets be clear . You can believe whatever floats your boat. That doesn't make it real . The world will not magically adjust to Seans "CC is irrelevant/not serious/belief ".
Whatever extensions you make on your delusions are yours to have and hold - and certainly not mine. You will have to find your own community of shared delusionists if you want to spout forth about the excellent next few centuries Australia will have before an ice age.
Luckily ASF appears to be an excellent petri dish for your bent
_________________________________________________________________________________________________
As I was writing this post I remembered a pertinent scene from Ozark which I have been following.
A guy has a very overbearing, high control mother. She has been dominating his life for years. He finally decides to "stand up for himself"
So he is out on the sidewalk trying to get his mother to understand a particular point. Mum wants nothing to do with this. She sticks her fingers in her ears, going LaLaLaLa and dances around to show she aint listening to this rubbish.
Seconds later a truck comes down the road and cleans her up. She has danced out onto the road. Can't hear the truck (obviously) and fate takes its course.
I agree, it's serious. But, not yet and we have no influence on it. I thought you understood my position on this. You don't seem to have listened.
I did like Ozark. Was that a documentary produced by Greta?
Please go back to your 'scare the kiddies' thread where you can cause all the fear about imminent World wide life destruction all you like. It's funny.
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