Resisting Climate Hysteria

[basilio]

Twiggy Forrest is a scientist. A real one actually with a Phd . So he understands and respects scientific understanding.

Extremely Hot, Humid Weather Could Kill a Person Far More Easily Than We Thought​

Health07 March 2022
By Carly Cassella

(Aliraza Khatri's Photography/Getty Images)

The human body might not cope with nearly as much heat and humidity as theory predicts.
One of the first studies to directly assess humid heat stress among young people has found that when humidity is at an absolute max, the upper limit of human adaptability is just 31°C (87 °F).

That's four degrees less than theoretical estimates, and for older people, the threshold is probably even lower.

Because humans cool themselves through evaporative cooling (as in, the sweat on your skin helps to cool you down), it's important to understand 'wet-bulb temperature', which incorporates both heat and humidity – the more humidity in the air relative to heat, the harder it is for evaporation to work.

Compared to hot and dry climates, the human body cannot withstand hot and humid climates nearly as well. That's because at 100 percent humidity, our sweat cannot dissipate as easily to cool our bodies down.

In an absolutely dry environment, the human threshold for survival is probably around 50 °C. But for a completely humid environment, the new results suggest temperatures need only reach 31 °C before our bodies go into heat stroke.

With prolonged exposure to such conditions, death is inevitable.

Extremely Hot, Humid Weather Could Kill a Person Far More Easily Than We Thought

The human body might not cope with nearly as much heat and humidity as theory predicts.

www.sciencealert.com

 

[mullokintyre]

Twiggy Forrest is a scientist. A real one actually with a Phd . So he understands and respects scientific understanding.

Peter Ridd is a scientist, Ian plimer is a scientist, Bjorn Lomberg is a scientist , Roy Spencer is a scientist,patrick Michaels is a scientist, Fred Singer is a scientist, Judith Curry is a scientist, as are the father and son Pielke duo.
But I would probably bet you would dismiss anything from them as they do not support your climate views.

Extremely Hot, Humid Weather Could Kill a Person Far More Easily Than We Thought​

Health07 March 2022
By Carly Cassella

View attachment 161686 (Aliraza Khatri's Photography/Getty Images)

The human body might not cope with nearly as much heat and humidity as theory predicts.
One of the first studies to directly assess humid heat stress among young people has found that when humidity is at an absolute max, the upper limit of human adaptability is just 31°C (87 °F).

That's four degrees less than theoretical estimates, and for older people, the threshold is probably even lower.

Because humans cool themselves through evaporative cooling (as in, the sweat on your skin helps to cool you down), it's important to understand 'wet-bulb temperature', which incorporates both heat and humidity – the more humidity in the air relative to heat, the harder it is for evaporation to work.

Compared to hot and dry climates, the human body cannot withstand hot and humid climates nearly as well. That's because at 100 percent humidity, our sweat cannot dissipate as easily to cool our bodies down.

In an absolutely dry environment, the human threshold for survival is probably around 50 °C. But for a completely humid environment, the new results suggest temperatures need only reach 31 °C before our bodies go into heat stroke.

With prolonged exposure to such conditions, death is inevitable.

Extremely Hot, Humid Weather Could Kill a Person Far More Easily Than We Thought

The human body might not cope with nearly as much heat and humidity as theory predicts.

www.sciencealert.com

Of course, there is that word "could".
Its not a word that exists in the lexicon of a scientist.
Mick

 

[basilio]

Yep Mick there are many people who are scientists. They will have skills in particular areas. They will also have a range of competencies and a range of integrity.

That list your offered covers many of the main scientists who dispute the dangers of human created global warming. There are many thousands more who will offer far more evidence of what is happening to our world due to human caused GG emissions. You can choose to believe the handful who throw doubt on what is happening - and then dismiss the many thousands who will provide far more comprehensive information that shows the opposite.

In any case the idea of arguing about whether or not we have CC is now irrelevant. The physical evidence is in. Nonetheless there is still the efforts to down play or ignore just how much of an impact CC is having on fires, floods storms and extreme weather events. I'm sure that will make people who just don't want to acknowledge a very difficult reality sleep better at night as long as they have a secure home and a warm, dry bed.

Regarding the effect of extreme heat plus high humidity ? This is not rocket medicine. That article went throw the physiology of humans when subjected to 35C temperatures and 100% humidity. At that point the body can't control core temperatures and it goes into heat stroke. Left untreated you die.

The "could" in the article highlights research that indicates heat stroke could happen at even lower temperatures that 35C/100% humidity. perhaps 32-32C . That would bring the problem far closer to reality than so far believed. In any case we already know the effect of recent extreme temperature events.

Heat, humidity kill hundreds of US cattle during world's hottest month

Hundreds of cattle died in Iowa from extreme heat and humidity in late July, the state and livestock producers said, as the world recorded its hottest month ever.

www.reuters.com

How dangerous is extreme heat to humans?

newsroom.unsw.edu.au

Why European heatwaves could cause thousands of deaths

More than 61,000 people died due to the heat in Europe last summer – and 2023 is shaping up to be even hotter.

newseu.cgtn.com

 

[Sean K]

Having lived in the the trop[ics for a few years, the humidity can be quite sapping.
But then again, vast swathes of the population in the tropics have been living in high humidity for a long time, its not like its a new phenomenon.
Lucky all those spare bits I have inserted into my limbs are all titanium and not ferrous based, i would rust away.
Mick

It's amazing how people have lived in Darwin for 65,000 years and there's no records of them combusting due to the heat and lethal humidity. Must say, I lived there for three years and I did not enjoy the build up to the wet season and playing footy in the middle of the day. Took quite a lot of hydrating. I can't recall anyone exploding.

I spent pretty much all of 2015 in Iraq and the wet bulb temp was regularly over 50 degrees. It peaked at 61.2 degrees one day. Bloody hell it was hot, but I didn't melt into the sand.

How many more people die due to cold compared to heat? It's 20 x or something isn't it? We're going to be in lots of trouble when we slide into the next ice age. I wonder what humanity's solution is going to be when the entire northern hemisphere is covered in ice.

 

[basilio]

It's amazing how people have lived in Darwin for 65,000 years and there's no records of them combusting due to the heat and lethal humidity. Must say, I lived there for three years and I did not enjoy the build up to the wet season and playing footy in the middle of the day. Took quite a lot of hydrating. I can't recall anyone exploding.

I spent pretty much all of 2015 in Iraq and the wet bulb temp was regularly over 50 degrees. It peaked at 61.2 degrees one day. Bloody hell it was hot, but I didn't melt into the sand.

How many more people die due to cold compared to heat? It's 20 x or something isn't it? We're going to be in lots of trouble when we slide into the next ice age. I wonder what humanity's solution is going to be when the entire northern hemisphere is covered in ice.

Yeah . Like who knows who died 65000 years ago ? We don't know ? Then no worries !

Maybe the concern is that what Darwin has been like in our recent memory isn't how it is now or is going to be as temperatures increase.
Iraq ? Wet Bulb temperatures of 50 degrees plus ? Where did all that humidity come from ? You reckon you and your army friends were outside with 50-60 C wet bulb temperatures and surviving ?

And maybe we should be thinking about coping with the next 30-50 years before worrying about an Ice Age that is still way way off.

Wet-bulb and Dry-Bulb Temperature Methods​

Wet-bulb is a method of measuring air temperature where the thermometer is enclosed in a water-soaked cloth which is exposed to air. Wet-bulb temperature uses this method to measure how much water vapor the atmosphere can hold at the current weather and air pressure conditions. Evaporation of the water causes a cooling effect. Dry air with less humidity will cause the water to evaporate faster. Water can only evaporate if the surrounding air can hold more water, so if the relative humidity of the air is 100%, no more evaporation can happen. Evaporation is needed for sweat to be able to lower human body temperature on hot days.

Dry-bulb temperature is what we usually use to refer to the measurement of ambient air temperature. This is the most commonly used form of measuring air temperature; it is simply the temperature of outdoor air as measured by a thermometer. At 100% relative humidity, wet-bulb and dry-bulb temperatures are equal. At lower humidities, wet-bulb temperature is lower than dry-bulb due to the effect of evaporative cooling.

Wet-bulb temperature is a measurement that accounts for both heat and humidity. A wet-bulb temperature above 90 degrees Fahrenheit or 32 degrees Celsius is the limit for humans to perform outdoor activities. Humans cannot survive for more than a few hours beyond 90 degrees Fahrenheit wet-bulb temperatures, even with unlimited water and shade. And yet, climate change has already caused some areas of the earth, in the Persian Gulf and Pakistan, to cross above 95 wet-bulb degrees. These lethal conditions make it very important to think about the combination of temperature and humidity for climate projections, such as those used by the ClimateCheck heat rating.

Wet-Bulb vs Dry-Bulb Temperature Measurements and Climate Change

Wet-bulb temperatures are an important measurement of potential heat risk. Learn how it differs from dry-bulb and how ClimateCheck uses these in our projections for heat risk.

climatecheck.com

 

[basilio]

Iraq today facing extreme temperatures

Extreme heat hits Iraq, as temperatures exceed 50 degrees Celsius

Higher temperatures combine with Iraq’s other problems to create a ‘perfect storm’.

www.aljazeera.com

 

[mullokintyre]

There was a bit of talk about the loss of ice in some parts of the world.
As is so often the case, as one part depletes, another part accretes.
After the fanfar of losses in 2011-2012, 2022-2023 is above the 1981-2010 average.
Mick
from Polar Port Denmark

 

[basilio]

Thanks Mick. I went to your site and this is the picture I saw.

The notes on the right are very explicit about understanding what the graph means. In particular it notes that the surface mass balance is not the same as the overall mass balance of the ice cap. I suspect that information is there specifically to ensure it is not deliberately misinterpreted by bad faith actors. This graph does NOT in any way show an overall accumulation of ice.

From which source did you find your version of this information ?

 

[basilio]

Polar Port Denmark is an excellent source of information on the elements around ice accumulation/loss in the Arctic. In particular they offer yearly reports on what has happened.

This is how the 2022 report began. There is no "accumulation" of ice in some areas Mick. Just cherry picking misinformation.

13 March 2023

The Polar Portal season report for 2022 is ready for download.​

2022 is the 26th year in a row in which the Greenland Ice Sheet lost more mass during the course of the melting season than it gained during the winter. The summer was rather cold and very wet, which delayed the onset of the melting season, while a heatwave in the beginning of September led to a considerable loss of ice.

2022 Season Report: Polar Portal

polarportal.dk

 

[Sean K]

This is going to change the Earth's temperature.

 

[wayneL]

This is going to change the Earth's temperature.

View attachment 161814View attachment 161815

It was 29° here yesterday and only 22° today... It must be working!

 

[Sean K]

It was 29° here yesterday and only 22° today... It must be working!

Nice, it must be.

And yep, a few SUVs off the road in Melbourne is going to fix global boiling and lethal humidity.

Australians getting so obsessed with this is quite concerning. It's sad actually. What a waste of a life to spend your remaining days being so disturbed about something you were never responsible for, nor can control.

(Just a reminder to those not really following, Australia is a net CO2 sink)

 

[Smurf1976]

This is going to change the Earth's temperature.

I call BS on this one.

The action itself that is not your comment.

Deliberately immobilising vehicles has potentially serious consequences. It's only a matter of time until the targeted vehicle just happens to be the one used by someone who's on-call from home for emergency work be it medical, trades, SES, volunteer firefighters or whatever.

They can't get to work because the vehicle was tampered with and the end result is someone's harmed or there's community disruption, environmental damage or whatever sufficient that government deems it a police matter to find and prosecute those responsible. Either that or there's a woman gone into labour or someone's pet's injured and needs to be rushed to the vet or whatever.

This isn't going to get the public on side with the issue, quite the opposite, and I suspect whoever's really behind it is well aware of that. This isn't legitimate concern for the environment, it's simply outright vandalism intended to sway public sentiment.

These clowns need the book thrown at them big time.

 

[wayneL]

I call BS on this one.

The action itself that is not your comment.

Deliberately immobilising vehicles has potentially serious consequences. It's only a matter of time until the targeted vehicle just happens to be the one used by someone who's on-call from home for emergency work be it medical, trades, SES, volunteer firefighters or whatever.

They can't get to work because the vehicle was tampered with and the end result is someone's harmed or there's community disruption, environmental damage or whatever sufficient that government deems it a police matter to find and prosecute those responsible. Either that or there's a woman gone into labour or someone's pet's injured and needs to be rushed to the vet or whatever.

This isn't going to get the public on side with the issue, quite the opposite, and I suspect whoever's really behind it is well aware of that. This isn't legitimate concern for the environment, it's simply outright vandalism intended to sway public sentiment.

These clowns need the book thrown at them big time.

Same as the "Just Stop Oil" morons blocking roads. Arrest them all. Also those inciting them with BS alarmism.

Sack the stupid cops that allow it, because as you say, there will come a situation where someone whether through necessity or frustration gets violent.

 

[sptrawler]

Classic loonies, targeting the smug elites, who are the strongest allies and supporters they were probably all Teal and Green voters.
Talk about Karma.

Toorak tractors targeted by climate activists deflating tyres

Police will increase their presence on the streets of Melbourne’s south-eastern suburbs after dozens of cars were targeted by a group known as the Tyre Extinguishers.

www.theage.com.au

Climate activists have attacked dozens of cars in Toorak, with owners waking to find the tyres on their four-wheel drives deflated, and a note pinned to their windscreen accusing them of driving “gas guzzlers”.
Police suspect an environmental protest group, who identified themselves on the note as the Tyre Extinguishers, targeted up to 20 four-wheel drives and sports-utility vehicles in and around Tintern Avenue.

 

[Sean K]

The UK is slowing down their sprint to RE. Must have been getting some political heat on the costs to the average punter which was inevitable. Sounds like other EU countries may be feeling the heat as well.

Part of their plans were to charge motorists $25 a day to drive an ICE vehicle inside the M25, which I assume is central London. I wouldn't be at all surprised if future Australian governments try to introduce something like this to encourage the transition to EVs.

The UK have done pretty well in reducing their emissions. I'm surprised to see they're lower than ours by about 50M tonnes. Not sure how they've managed that.

Another unpopular policy, of imposing seven different recycling bins on households, has also been abandoned.

Mr Sunak said his environmental approach was pragmatic. While Sunak said he remained committed to the legally-binding target of reaching net zero emissions by 2050 he believed Britain could stall it’s progress because it was “so far ahead of every other country in the world”.

But he may have also had a hard look at the deeply unpopular ULEZ charges imposed by the Labour London mayor Sadiq Khan. The $25 a day penalty – for driving older vehicles inside the M25 – has disproportionately hit poorer Londoners, and also delivered a recent shock by-election win for the Tories in Uxbridge and South Ruislip.

Polling in European nations, including in the Netherlands which goes to vote on November 22, shows that net zero issues are becoming hotly contested and could be decisive in a national election. The UK is due to have a general election by January 2025, with the date expected to be in late 2024 after the northern hemisphere summer break.

 

[Sean K]

Looks like it's going to be a balancing act for governments to stay in power and achieve the UN's climate plan.

I think our governments are feeling that at the moment with the pushback from environmentalists against off-shore bird choppers and farmers against their land being acquired for transmission lines.

 

[sasch]

This discussion has been running for so long now that is interesting to go back to prior comments:

This is from Julia (R.I.P) from 2009

"An example was the headlines today that coastal inundation is going to affect hundreds of thousands of households and businesses.
Only at the end of the report of the study (which of course once again just is based on computer modelling) is it pointed out that this - even if it happens - will be at least 100 years away.
I wonder if an opposing scientific view (and there will be plenty) will ever make it to print and/or broadcast?"

I am surprised that people are not discussing the elephant in the room, which will surely cause changes.
The insurance industry and the cost to reinsure, coastal zones, flood zones, fire zones, etc.
They are not basing their data on hearsay.

 

[basilio]

This discussion has been running for so long now that is interesting to go back to prior comments:

This is from Julia (R.I.P) from 2009

"An example was the headlines today that coastal inundation is going to affect hundreds of thousands of households and businesses.
Only at the end of the report of the study (which of course once again just is based on computer modelling) is it pointed out that this - even if it happens - will be at least 100 years away.
I wonder if an opposing scientific view (and there will be plenty) will ever make it to print and/or broadcast?"

I am surprised that people are not discussing the elephant in the room, which will surely cause changes.
The insurance industry and the cost to reinsure, coastal zones, flood zones, fire zones, etc.
They are not basing their data on hearsay.

This topic has been opened and discussed in other threads. Yes the Re-insurance industry was one of the first major commercial entities to recognise the impact climate change would have risk management of their business.

Cheers
Bas

See https://www.aussiestockforums.com/threads/investment-implications-of-climate-change.34918/page-13

Is Global Warming becoming unstoppable?

Snowy 2 will always be needed, as will many, many more pumped hydro facilities, if renewables are to be the only source of generation. Pumped hydro, hydrogen and or nuclear are the only current forms of bulk storage currently available, that can handle extended periods of low output from...

www.aussiestockforums.com

 

[Smurf1976]

The UK have done pretty well in reducing their emissions. I'm surprised to see they're lower than ours by about 50M tonnes. Not sure how they've managed that.

In no particular order it basically comes down to:

Smaller houses. Houses sold as "knockdown rebuild" opportunities in Australia because they're too small would be seen as perfectly fit for a millionaire in the UK.

Shorter transport distances. Self-explanatory but for those who've never been to the UK, I'll point out that traveling 50km can put you not from the city to the suburbs but in a completely different city.

More efficient light vehicle fleet. Australia ranks extremely poorly in that regard, not even having a proper fuel efficiency standard.

Nuclear power is a modest portion of the electricity mix in the UK but it's zero in Australia.

More efficient fossil fuel power generation fleet. Almost all gas-fired plant is combined cycle versus Australia where a large portion is open cycle indeed the trend is away from combined and toward open.

More efficient household and commercial fuel (primarily gas) burning appliances. Condensing boilers being mainstream in the UK versus condensing gas water and space heaters, whilst they do exist, are not widely used in Australia.

Almost complete disappearance of energy-intensive manufacturing industry in the UK whereas it's still significant in Australia. The UK has, of course, simply outsourced it's emissions there rather than getting rid of them as such.

Put those together and that's most of the reason.