wayneL
VIVA LA LIBERTAD, CARAJO!
- Joined
- 9 July 2004
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Canada broke its temperature record for a third straight day on Tuesday - 49.6C (121.3F) in Lytton, British Columbia.
Anyway well worth a read.As CO2 has had no noticeable effect on climate in 600 million years, until 15- 20 years ago, when carbon tax was invented, any alleged climatic effects can be ignored.
It has been interesting to look at some of parallels with covid-19 and the pseudoscience spawned by many, not to mention to moronic antivaxxers, and the irresponsible folk who think their personal freedoms are being destroyed.498 pages in this thread
the last post dated October 30 2020
when popularity clouds urgency
As we note from post #9495 both alarmist and denier are regularly used.If we debate hypotheses, lets not use emotive, historically emotion charged terms suxh as denier.
That's the nicest ad hominem insult I've ever got from you Robee...It has been interesting to look at some of parallels with covid-19 and the pseudoscience spawned by many, not to mention to moronic antivaxxers, and the irresponsible folk who think their personal freedoms are being destroyed.
Their style is usually anecdote and pseudoscience when not repeating debunked claims. Elsewhere in one of ASF's threads @bellenuit went to great lengths to correct misunderstandings about data which often occurs when people don't understand the full context of an issue.
Then we have the likes of @wayneL above who spend a lot of time avoiding accepted science when they are not otherwise using pseudoscience or drawing from climate science deniers to post in this thread. No doubt @wayneL has a very low carbon footprint, which is commendable, but he also swims in hypocrisy:
As we note from post #9495 both alarmist and denier are regularly used.
In scientific debate, however, these terms are not being used.
In lay discussion it does sound reasonable that a person who consistently denies the veracity of science is called a climate science denier. On the other hand, the denialist camp often uses exaggerated claims about climate which out of context might seem alarming.
Should we be alarmed about our future climate?
Not really.
For all practical purposes anthropogenic climate change has moved from hypothesis to theory. If there was a reasonable counter to it then, given the tens of millions of dollars poured into organisations wanting to prove it wasn't the case, you would think that over the past 3 decades it would have materialised!
We should not be alarmed because climate science projections are trending as expected.
What we should be is disappointed.
Disappointed that politics has interfered with the adoption of policies and practices that should be in place to mitigate an extremely undesirable climate future.
Geez your're in for a shock here.....excuse the punSo, bas et al would consider me a climate change denier.
Our power bill is about $160 per quarter (no solar).
We only put the bin out about once every three weeks and recycle out once every two months.
We buy Australian where we can, especially if packaging is at a minimum.
We do almost everything by hand, almost no gadgets or machines, we don't use a dryer, all washing gets hung out.
Our vehicle choices are, to our best knowledge, to have the least impact on the planet overall, but also the least impact on humanity (slave labour and all that sort of thing)
Our food choices also reflect that philosophy... Good health outcomes, but also as far as we can ascertain, the least environmental damage to the planet
Etc
We try to encourage our friends and circle influence to be the same.
When I meet my maker I will be happy to detail how I was a climate change denier.
I wonder if the alarmists can be so proud of their lifestyle?
Lot of 12v lighting and using the wood BBQ on the verandah.... And fast showers ?Geez your're in for a shock here.....excuse the pun
$1/day supply charge here anyway did you live in a cave ,$160 a quarter is amazing!
I reckon the daughters hairdryer would be costing me thatLot of 12v lighting and using the wood BBQ on the verandah.... And fast showers ?
We have the double edged sword of not having daughters (or sons).I reckon the daughters hairdryer would be costing me that
Mrs has had the wood fire going all day and she's outside on the phone.....I just pay the bills and shutup
I reckon Happer might have an inkling or two about the co2 molecule.It is interesting to do a little duck diving into the murky waters of CC denial.
There is absolutely no doubt that dense, complex , creative paper by Happer and Windjaarden that announced the "possible peaking" (wow!!) of global heating due to rises in CO2 has been widely flogged in the fours corners of denial.
As well it should of course. In fact if it was true they should get a dozen Nobel Prizes each for such a ground breaking discovery. But hey that isn't going to happen is it ? And for exactly the same reason no Physics Journal with any sort of Peer Review process would touch it with a barge pole.
I did find a very interesting story however of a public debate a few years back on the topic of how wonderful our earth would be with CO2 levels at 2000 plus PPM (Currently 415 plus and burning down the house..) The debate and almost all the material reflected the views of William Happer.
It's long story but it is interesting to see just how the ol guy tortures tables, cherry picks research to a pip and ignores absolutely everything he possibly can that doesn't fit his pre paid story. And of course he wraps it up in his special tasty sauce of dense, complex, creative physics.
Debating Climate Science: Uncovering the Truth Behind William Happer and the “More CO2 is Better” Claim
June 29, 2019 / JeffreyBennett / Climate/Global Warming Science, Op/Ed Pieces
Please also see this post as published on Medium.
If you follow news about climate science and politics, you’ve probably heard of William Happer, who is one of the forces behind the Trump Administrations plans to go forward with a panel to “investigate” whether global warming really poses the threats claimed by most scientists; he may also lead the proposed panel. Happer’s views are perhaps best summarized by this quote from an op-ed that he co-authored:¹
“Contrary to what some would have us believe, increased carbon dioxide in the atmosphere will benefit the increasing population on the planet by increasing agricultural productivity.” — William Happer, Wall Street Journal, 8 May 2013
You might wonder where a view like this comes from, and as it turns out, I recently had the opportunity to gain some insight into the truth behind the “more CO2 is better” claim. This came about because I engaged in a formal debate (hosted by The Soho Forum in New York City) against a guy by the name of Craig Idso, who shares Happer’s views. Indeed, in researching both individuals, I found virtually no daylight between any of their claims. Moreover, it appears likely that two Idso-led groups — the “NIPCC” and the “Center for the Study of Carbon Dioxide and Global Change” (more on those organizations below) — provide the source material behind many or most of Happer’s statements.
Given the potential prominence of the proposed Happer-led panel, I’ve decided to share my insights from the debate in this post. I hope that people of all political persuasions will find these insights enlightening.
Debating Climate Science: Uncovering the Truth Behind William Happer and the “More CO2 is Better” Claim - Jeffrey Bennett
Please also see this post as published on Medium. If you follow news about climate science and politics, you’ve probably heard of William Happer, who is one of the forces behind the Trump Administrations plans to go forward with a panel to “investigate” whether global warming really poses the...www.jeffreybennett.com
It remains alive and well @basilio.It is interesting to do a little duck diving into the murky waters of CC denial.
There is absolutely no doubt that dense, complex , creative paper by Happer and Windjaarden that announced the "possible peaking" (wow!!) of global heating due to rises in CO2 has been widely flogged in the fours corners of denial.
The explanation is of course climate change. The debate is causation, especially as it relates to regionality of such.It remains alive and well @basilio.
The narratives created by actual scientists that deny climate change are mind boggling. They don't get much traction nowadays - except in the world of those welded on to AGW denial - because they have little to do with what is actually occurring and have no explanatory powers.
For example, what could be the possible explanation for the sea ice extent chart posted above by @Joules MM1?
I propose excessive use of hairdryers by those living in a @Humid climate.
Unless there is a compelling hypothesis to counter AGW theory there is no practical debate to be had.The explanation is of course climate change. The debate is causation, especially as it relates to regionality of such.
Roger Pielke Snr disagrees, as do many othersUnless there is a compelling hypothesis to counter AGW theory there is no practical debate to be had.
The notion that causation has regionality is nonsensical as AGW can only be derived globally (it's given away by the "G" in AGW).
The climatic effects of AGW will differ regionally due to factors such as changing ocean and atmospheric circulation patterns.
If they disagree then they should offer an explanation that is more credible.Roger Pielke Snr disagrees, as do many others
Pielke Snr, et al are petty? Wow rederob.If they disagree then they should offer an explanation that is more credible.
Consilience overrides pettiness.
Offer something worth our time rather than your opinions.Pielke Snr, et al are petty? Wow rederob.
These people are in fact warmists, but have a more considered view of regionality, globallality(sic) and causation, based on data rather than politics and funding.
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