Resisting Climate Hysteria

cynic · 25 April 2017

basilio said:
Global Warming - Climate Change Facts on the ground

Perhaps worth looking at how rising sea levels driven by global warming are affecting Florida.
...

I find it interesting that your first statement appears to be several joined opinions of facts. (But then that may be just my opinion!)

From your statement, you seem to be of the opinion that sea levels are rising.

You are of the further opinion that Florida is being affected.

You are also of the opinion that global warming is occurring.

And are further opining that global warming is causing rising sea levels.

For all I know, there may exist sound scientific evidence lending support to none, some, or all, of your opinions, the questions for me being the quality of the evidence and its objective interpretation.

About the only facts I am able to espy from your post, are the facts of the existence of opinions, and the fact of the existence of a sensationalised media report echoing those opinions.

In saying this, I trust it is understood that what I am contesting in this particular post, is not the validity (or lack thereof) of the opined facts. I am, however, questioning the validity of the basis upon which those opinions were formed.

Given that many conflicting media reports, peer reviewed research papers, scientific opinions etc. exist, what were your bases for determination of which reports and/or opinions to accept?

noco · 25 April 2017

basilio said:
Global Warming - Climate Change Facts on the ground

Perhaps worth looking at how rising sea levels driven by global warming are affecting Florida. The key issue is what happens when people realise their properties are going under and will effectively be worthless? When does realty sink in ?
Back to Canberra Times
The nightmare scenario for Florida’s coastal homeowners – sea levels rising

Apr 21, 2017 Christopher Flavelle
Play
0:01
/

On a predictably gorgeous South Florida afternoon, Coral Gables mayor Jim Cason sat in his office overlooking the white-linen restaurants of this affluent seaside community and wondered when climate change would bring it all to an end. He figured it would involve a boat.

When Cason first started worrying about sea-level rise, he asked his staff to count not just how much coastline the city had (75 kilometres) or value of the property along that coast ($4.65 billion). He also told them to find out how many boats dock inland from the bridges that span the city’s canals (302). What matters, he guessed, will be the first time a mast fails to clear the bottom of one of those bridges because the water level had risen too far.

“These boats are going to be the canary in the mine,” said Cason, who became mayor in 2011 after retiring from the U.S. foreign service. “When the boats can’t go out, the property values go down.”

If property values start to fall, Cason said, banks could stop writing 30-year mortgages for coastal homes, shrinking the pool of able buyers and sending prices lower still. Those properties make up a quarter of the city’s tax base; if that revenue fell, the city would struggle to provide the services that make it such a desirable place to live, causing more sales and another drop in revenue.

And all of that could happen before the rising sea consumes a single home.

http://www.allhomes.com.au/news/the...homeowners-sea-levels-rising-20170421-gvp5t8/

Bas, nice post upon which the alarmist will jump on and blame Global Warming.

Now then, I ask the question, are the seas rising or is the ground under Florida and Miami sinking?

If you do some research into their problem you will find that area you talk about is actually sitting on very porous limestone, so porous in fact it is like Swiss Cheese.....That limestone is also the only source of water supply from the underground fresh water.

Now then, over a period of time that area will experience king tides and every time there is a king tide it intrudes into the limestone.....Salt water and limestone are not a good mix and the salt water will decay the limestone causing it to lower the surface ground level which to all visual appearance will give the impression that the sea levels are rising.

you should ask yourself the question as to why the sea levels are only rising in Florida and Miami?

The same thing is happening in some of the Western Pacific Islands which are based on coral cays and as some corals die off the sea water decays the dead limestone corals causing the island to sink and once again giving the appearance of rising sea levels.......So once again we should ask the question as to why some island gives the appearance of rising sea levels when islands in the same area are not affected.

http://sciencing.com/effects-rock-salt-limestone-7430286.html

luutzu · 25 April 2017

noco said:
I guess it is up to you to prove those video lies......I know you don't like the truth but there is plenty more where those 3 links came from and I will feed you more soon.....\
Have a ice day.

The dude said the author of that 97% paper retracted this and that claim; he claim they claim they made mistakes in their analysis and that it's actually only 44 [or there about] of the 12000 [?] articles they cited has anything to do with Climate Science. blah blah blah.

So no, it's up to him to prove, to provide references where Cook and others made those retraction. To expect me to take his words or go and read up on all the works and interviews Cook ever made... no thanks.

Here's another mistake he and all deniers [sceptics] are making: That the gov't want to control our lives and are using CC hysteria to enforce it.

Beside the local council controlling tree preservation in your backyard, make sure your sewage goes into the sewage pipe and stormwater into the street... gov't does not give much of a dam about climate change and its impact.

The Paris Agreement, the Kyoto Protocol... it's just some agreement and pinky promise to do something about CC... But mining or fossil fuel or carbon tax or removing subsidies to the fuel industry or tax incentive for serious work into renewables... CC change is not taken seriously.

Imagine being warned that an asteroid is going to it Earth, we'd be sending Bruce Willis or Elon Musk up there to do something. Why? Because those in power won't know where that asteroid is going to hit - might hit their New York towers instead of New Orleans; the North Shore instead of Western Sydney.

But climate change... we all know who it's going to kill first. It ain't those with money to afford food, shelter, air conditioning, air filters and all the medical care money can buy.

Then there's the melting artics... it softens up the ice, more economical to finally drill baby drill. Heck, much easier than going through 4 miles of granite that's for sure.

But of course it doesn't end with the poor and brown and black people dying... most of the world's food production came from deltas. Once the sea level rises enough, salt the soil enough... once climate refugees flee into cities and wars and social unrest starts out... maybe arms and security investment will do well... and they all can eat money.

luutzu · 25 April 2017

cynic said:
From your post, it seems that you consider that video to contain a blend of misinformation (i.e. "bs and outright lies").

Whilst I myself, certainly experienced it as opinionated, I happen to be fairly much in agreement with the overall opinion being expressed, so didn't feel any great need to decry it, despite its apparent subjectivity.

Given that there were a lot of statements (albeit opinionated) being made, I wonder if there were some things being said that you might, perchance, believe to be true.

Do you, perchance , believe any of the historical examples, given to highlight some issues surrounding subscription to scientific consensus, to be true?

He got one thing right... consensus aren't always right.

I kinda told you that before though. That Dr Curry better be a Galileo or those geniuses and all those scientists are praying to Mother Earth their Goddess or something.

The thing about geniuses who successfully challenged the consensus and change the world is that they have something to say and proved it with facts. They have a new model, backed up by scientific research and observation. I don't see that in any of the sceptic's work. And saying "I don't know" ain't good enough.

basilio · 25 April 2017

God we can be convulted can't we? Are sea levels risings or is Florida simply sinking ? There is plenty of evidence to show that sea levels are rising around the world and that Florida is simply some of the most expensive Real Estate that is going to be washed into oblivion.

The interesting part about the article I quoted was the realising that financial disaster wouldn't happen when the city actually starts to be awash. (which it arguably is already on a number of occasions).
The plug will be pulled on Florida financially when it starts to become clear that Florida will indeed be submerged and all value in the real estate will disappear.

And of course it won't just be Florida that goes under. Think Shanghai, London, New York etc.

http://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/sealevel.html
https://theconversation.com/sea-lev...n-the-pacific-first-scientific-evidence-58511
http://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/global-warming/sea-level-rise/

luutzu · 25 April 2017

noco said:
Bas, nice post upon which the alarmist will jump on and blame Global Warming.

Now then, I ask the question, are the seas rising or is the ground under Florida and Miami sinking?

If you do some research into their problem you will find that area you talk about is actually sitting on very porous limestone, so porous in fact it is like Swiss Cheese.....That limestone is also the only source of water supply from the underground fresh water.

Now then, over a period of time that area will experience king tides and every time there is a king tide it intrudes into the limestone.....Salt water and limestone are not a good mix and the salt water will decay the limestone causing it to lower the surface ground level which to all visual appearance will give the impression that the sea levels are rising.

you should ask yourself the question as to why the sea levels are only rising in Florida and Miami?

The same thing is happening in some of the Western Pacific Islands which are based on coral cays and as some corals die off the sea water decays the dead limestone corals causing the island to sink and once again giving the appearance of rising sea levels.......So once again we should ask the question as to why some island gives the appearance of rising sea levels when islands in the same area are not affected.

http://sciencing.com/effects-rock-salt-limestone-7430286.html

New York sinking too noco? How about the few islands in the pacific and indian oceans that's already having water lapping at their feet... remember that funny joke our honorable what's his face was cracking?

basilio · 25 April 2017

The Reality of Global warming - on the ground

Arctic climate warming higher and faster than expected
Open water in Arctic Ocean affecting weather patterns around world
By Margo McDiarmid, CBC News Posted: Apr 24, 2017 9:00 PM ET Last Updated: Apr 24, 2017 9:44 PM ET

A polar bear sits on ice in Lancaster Sound. A new report by 90 scientists says Arctic temperatures are rising faster than in the rest of the world, and animals that rely on ice for survival are facing increased stress and disruption. (Jimmy Thomson/CBC)

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A new international report shows that Arctic temperatures are rising higher and faster than expected, and the effects are already being felt around the world.

"The Arctic's climate is shifting to a new state," warns the report.

"This transformation has profound implications for people, resources and ecosystems worldwide."

The Snow, Water, Ice and Permafrost in the Arctic assessment was written by more than 90 scientists from around the world who compiled the latest northern research on how climate change is affecting the Arctic ice and ecosystems.

It's part of the Arctic Monitoring and Assessment Program of the Arctic Council, which represents eight circumpolar countries.

Among the findings in this year's report:

The Arctic Ocean could be largely free of sea ice in the summer as early as 2030 or even before that.
Arctic temperatures are rising twice as fast as the temperatures in the rest of the world. In the fall of 2016 mean temperatures were six degrees higher than average.
Thawing permafrost that holds 50 per cent of the world's carbon is already affecting northern infrastructure and could release significant amounts of methane into the atmosphere.
Polar bears, walruses and seals that rely on ice for survival are facing increased stress and disruption.
Changes in the Arctic may be affecting weather as far away as Southeast Asia.

"The Arctic is connected to the rest of the planet," said David Barber, who is a leading expert on Arctic ice at the University of Manitoba and one of the authors of the report.

"We are seeing the first and strongest signs of global warming in the Arctic. We knew this was coming, we knew 30 years ago that it was coming, and it is now here," said Barber in an interview with CBC News

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/arctic-climate-warming-ice-report-1.4083728
____________________________________________________

And check any of the other URL's in the article to see further examples of our rapidly changing climate

cynic · 25 April 2017

luutzu said:
He got one thing right... consensus aren't always right.
...

I find it refreshing that you are able to entertain claims to the historical unreliability of consensus.

But is that the only thing he got right?

In accusing him of lying and bs, is there not a burden of proof, upon yourself, consequent to such accusations?

luutzu · 25 April 2017

cynic said:
I find it refreshing that you are able to entertain claims to the historical unreliability of consensus.

But is that the only thing he got right?

In accusing him of lying and bs, is there not a burden of proof, upon yourself, consequent to such accusations?

I already answer it in my recent reply to noco when he tell me to go prove what the guy lied and bs about.

But let's put it down to gut feel, having a nose for bs, and a brain for believing the climate science scientists over some dude on the internet shall we

noco · 25 April 2017

luutzu said:
The dude said the author of that 97% paper retracted this and that claim; he claim they claim they made mistakes in their analysis and that it's actually only 44 [or there about] of the 12000 [?] articles they cited has anything to do with Climate Science. blah blah blah.

So no, it's up to him to prove, to provide references where Cook and others made those retraction. To expect me to take his words or go and read up on all the works and interviews Cook ever made... no thanks.

Here's another mistake he and all deniers [sceptics] are making: That the gov't want to control our lives and are using CC hysteria to enforce it.

Beside the local council controlling tree preservation in your backyard, make sure your sewage goes into the sewage pipe and stormwater into the street... gov't does not give much of a dam about climate change and its impact.

The Paris Agreement, the Kyoto Protocol... it's just some agreement and pinky promise to do something about CC... But mining or fossil fuel or carbon tax or removing subsidies to the fuel industry or tax incentive for serious work into renewables... CC change is not taken seriously.

Imagine being warned that an asteroid is going to it Earth, we'd be sending Bruce Willis or Elon Musk up there to do something. Why? Because those in power won't know where that asteroid is going to hit - might hit their New York towers instead of New Orleans; the North Shore instead of Western Sydney.

But climate change... we all know who it's going to kill first. It ain't those with money to afford food, shelter, air conditioning, air filters and all the medical care money can buy.

Then there's the melting artics... it softens up the ice, more economical to finally drill baby drill. Heck, much easier than going through 4 miles of granite that's for sure.

But of course it doesn't end with the poor and brown and black people dying... most of the world's food production came from deltas. Once the sea level rises enough, salt the soil enough... once climate refugees flee into cities and wars and social unrest starts out... maybe arms and security investment will do well... and they all can eat money.

Oh dear, what a weak response Luu......You are getting worse than ever.

noco · 25 April 2017

luutzu said:
I already answer it in my recent reply to noco when he tell me to go prove what the guy lied and bs about.

But let's put it down to gut feel, having a nose for bs, and a brain for believing the climate science scientists over some dude on the internet shall we

Frankly, nothing has to be proved any more, itis all there for you.

Hey Luu, there was more than one dude as you call them...Now you are working on gut feelings....where do you feel it most?...in your water?

luutzu · 25 April 2017

noco said:
Oh dear, what a weak response Luu......You are getting worse than ever.

I'm surprised I lasted this long on this topic noco.

Running out of sarcasm so might start swearing soon.. .and I only know a couple of swear words.

Know how that recent TC Debbie was forecasted to hit the Townsville area and your place was within its eye? Then as it moves further inland it swerve further south of Townsville?

How do you reckon the satellite was able to predict so accurately a weather event like that? From the same sort of climate science and scientists who's warning us about CC.

The same group of people who could build instruments and models to predict the daily weather pretty accurately just somehow have no idea what they're talking about when it comes to the weather.

basilio · 25 April 2017

The reality of Global Warming - what happens when it gets really hot.

World saw record temperatures in 2016 — and it's getting warmer: study
Climate change contributed to Fort McMurray's devastating wildfire, meteorological organization says
By Laura Fraser, CBC News Posted: Mar 21, 2017 2:06 PM ET Last Updated: Mar 23, 2017 1:15 PM ET

Smoke and flames from the wildfires can be seen behind a car on a highway near Fort McMurray, Alta. (Mark Blinch/Reuters)

1761 shares

Laura Fraser
Digital Journalist, CBC Toronto

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The world experienced its hottest year in 2016, a trend that contributed to the wildfires that decimated parts of Alberta and appears to already be worsening, according to a global analysis released Tuesday.

Record heat pushing us to the melting point?

The World Meteorological Organization (WMO) found that temperatures increased consistently around the globe last year — hitting 1.1 C above the pre-industrial era — with even higher fluctuations in the Arctic.

And the early data for 2017 shows that the earth continues to get warmer
http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/climate-change-record-temperatures-1.4034449

luutzu · 25 April 2017

basilio said:
The reality of Global Warming - what happens when it gets really hot.

World saw record temperatures in 2016 — and it's getting warmer: study
Climate change contributed to Fort McMurray's devastating wildfire, meteorological organization says
By Laura Fraser, CBC News Posted: Mar 21, 2017 2:06 PM ET Last Updated: Mar 23, 2017 1:15 PM ET

Smoke and flames from the wildfires can be seen behind a car on a highway near Fort McMurray, Alta. (Mark Blinch/Reuters)

1761 shares

Laura Fraser
Digital Journalist, CBC Toronto

Related Stories
The world experienced its hottest year in 2016, a trend that contributed to the wildfires that decimated parts of Alberta and appears to already be worsening, according to a global analysis released Tuesday.

Record heat pushing us to the melting point?

The World Meteorological Organization (WMO) found that temperatures increased consistently around the globe last year — hitting 1.1 C above the pre-industrial era — with even higher fluctuations in the Arctic.

And the early data for 2017 shows that the earth continues to get warmer
http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/climate-change-record-temperatures-1.4034449

In that Ted Cruz Senate hearing cynic posted, teddy doubts CC because the past few years were cold instead of hot.

Now that it's hit record rising temperature, I wonder if Teddy there have changed his mind or he's still a "sceptic".

cynic · 25 April 2017

luutzu said:
I already answer it in my recent reply to noco when he tell me to go prove what the guy lied and bs about.

But let's put it down to gut feel, having a nose for bs, and a brain for believing the climate science scientists over some dude on the internet shall we

So if I were to directly accuse you of lies and bs, would it be reasonable for me to disavow any responsibility, for evidencing the basis for my accusations, when called upon to do so?

luutzu · 25 April 2017

cynic said:
So if I were to directly accuse you of lies and bs, would it be reasonable for me to disavow any responsibility, for evidencing the basis for my accusations, when called upon to do so?

If you have already caught me on that bs and lies before, explain why you think I'm full of it... then the second time round when I repeat the same bs... there's no need to explain again.

Like I said, I've read the original article that guy referred to; have discussed it on this very threat before. So it's pretty reasonable for me to call bs when another guy made up stuff about the paper and its author I haven't read in the same paper he claimed to also have read; and he didn't provide any link or reference to his claims of retraction by Cook etc. etc.

Stop with these nonsense mate. You're pulling a Ted Cruz dude.

Hmm.. .mr smarty pants, I'm not a scientist but a sell out politician being given his talking points... so how dare you say climate change flooding poor neighbourhood, driving up food prices, washing away the poor's only livelihood and possibly all their life's savings... how can you as a scientist say that the fact that CC will affect poor and minority population being "close to debate".

I know it's obvious that it'll kill poor people first, but that conclusion being "close to debate", beyond doubt?... that's not scientific at all sir, so your climate hysteria is not scientific at all now is it? You cannot close anything to debate.

What a douche. At least he's paid to be a prick. What's your excuse?

noco · 25 April 2017

basilio said:
The reality of Global Warming - what happens when it gets really hot.

World saw record temperatures in 2016 — and it's getting warmer: study
Climate change contributed to Fort McMurray's devastating wildfire, meteorological organization says
By Laura Fraser, CBC News Posted: Mar 21, 2017 2:06 PM ET Last Updated: Mar 23, 2017 1:15 PM ET

Smoke and flames from the wildfires can be seen behind a car on a highway near Fort McMurray, Alta. (Mark Blinch/Reuters)

1761 shares

Laura Fraser
Digital Journalist, CBC Toronto

Related Stories
The world experienced its hottest year in 2016, a trend that contributed to the wildfires that decimated parts of Alberta and appears to already be worsening, according to a global analysis released Tuesday.

Record heat pushing us to the melting point?

The World Meteorological Organization (WMO) found that temperatures increased consistently around the globe last year — hitting 1.1 C above the pre-industrial era — with even higher fluctuations in the Arctic.

And the early data for 2017 shows that the earth continues to get warmer
http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/climate-change-record-temperatures-1.4034449

No Bas, all pointers are saying there has been no Global Warming for 18 years and 9 months...Did you not read my previous posts and links?

noco · 25 April 2017

luutzu said:
I'm surprised I lasted this long on this topic noco.

Running out of sarcasm so might start swearing soon.. .and I only know a couple of swear words.

Know how that recent TC Debbie was forecasted to hit the Townsville area and your place was within its eye? Then as it moves further inland it swerve further south of Townsville?

How do you reckon the satellite was able to predict so accurately a weather event like that? From the same sort of climate science and scientists who's warning us about CC.

The same group of people who could build instruments and models to predict the daily weather pretty accurately just somehow have no idea what they're talking about when it comes to the weather.

Hey mate , I have been through 4 cyclones since Althea in 1971...How many have you been through?
My mother was born in Port Douglas in 1897...They lost their house in a horrific cyclone in 1908.....So what is new.....I am all ears.

luutzu · 25 April 2017

noco said:
Hey mate , I have been through 4 cyclones since Althea in 1971...How many have you been through?
My mother was born in Port Douglas in 1897...They lost their house in a horrific cyclone in 1908.....So what is new.....I am all ears.

No one's saying bad weather is new.

What's new is its magnitude and the high frequency it's occuring. Like a decade weather event occuring every year; or a thousand year event occuring in less than 1 decade, and all at once across a few US states last year or so.

Don't know noco, if I had witnessed, or my family had lost their home, in a cyclone or a drought... I'd thank the people who's trying to warn that that kind of weather will get more severe, more frequent if such and such aren't done.

For one, they mean well. For two, they got nothing to gain from being right. In fact, they'd have a better chance of being right if they put it out there and walk away, coming back later to tell us they've told us so.

But instead of looking at scientists, you somehow want to believe the freaking oil and fossil industry who's saying... don't worry about it, it's not happening, not going to happen, just keep on using the stuff we have plenty of to make us richer.

And if you, or they, are wrong and people die? Opps?

If the climate scientists are wrong? What would happen? Oh, new jobs, new industry, renewable energy that would last practically forever... and clean water, fresh air.

Dam those scheming watermelon! Wanting us to live well. No thank you!

noco · 25 April 2017

luutzu said:
No one's saying bad weather is new.

What's new is its magnitude and the high frequency it's occuring. Like a decade weather event occuring every year; or a thousand year event occuring in less than 1 decade, and all at once across a few US states last year or so.

Don't know noco, if I had witnessed, or my family had lost their home, in a cyclone or a drought... I'd thank the people who's trying to warn that that kind of weather will get more severe, more frequent if such and such aren't done.

For one, they mean well. For two, they got nothing to gain from being right. In fact, they'd have a better chance of being right if they put it out there and walk away, coming back later to tell us they've told us so.

But instead of looking at scientists, you somehow want to believe the freaking oil and fossil industry who's saying... don't worry about it, it's not happening, not going to happen, just keep on using the stuff we have plenty of to make us richer.

And if you, or they, are wrong and people die? Opps?

If the climate scientists are wrong? What would happen? Oh, new jobs, new industry, renewable energy that would last practically forever... and clean water, fresh air.

Dam those scheming watermelon! Wanting us to live well. No thank you!

Luu.you don't really know what you are talking about.......We have had as many a 5 cyclones here in NQ in one season.....some close to Cat 5 and others around cat 2or 3 ....This talk about them becoming more severe is just hear say to make the Green Global Warming alarmist feel good....

I have probably lived in the area long before you were born and reminisce well back in the early 30's and witnessed many extreme events from cyclones, floods, drought and fire, so nothing is really new that you keep on harping about.

Say it often enough and the naive will believe you.

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