Resisting Climate Hysteria

noco said:

In some cases of farming a frost is needed in the case of growing apples......

Click to expand...

luutzu said:

I think some frost are also good for grapes and wineries, citrus etc.

Click to expand...

I can't find any where that says that frost is beneficial or needed for the growing of those fruit or any other types of fruit.

It appears that it's the opposite: worst case scenario the fruit is lost, best case you need to spend money to protect it.

Can you please provide anything to support your comments?

macca said:

If we scour the world looking of problems we will Always find some, simply because we pick the worst situation and hold that up as an example.

Click to expand...

That or we can just pick the best in the world and say everything's just perfect.

So for us lucky few with insulated homes, with an indoor office job, with proper infrastructure for clean water and power at a flick... the impact of climate change might just be a bit more cost at the weekly supermarket.

For those elite who owns and run the world... moving from limos to secured castles to summer homes and winter lodges... and an occasional few minutes among the great unwashed... what climate change? What pollution? What back breaking work in the sun or the snow on what dead field?

And that is why "we" are dragging our feet on the impact of CC, but when it came to the Ozone layer... a big hole in the Southern Hemisphere weren't so bad - it only kills Southern brown people and some Australians anyway... but when it was reported that another hole is opening up in the North, well we can't have that and still sun bake on the Hamptons now can we?

It's a globalised world, as we're told. Crap will spread...

macca said:

We could say that Zimbabwe is a basket case and needs help because they are starving, not that long ago Zimbabwe was a food bowl that exported food. At the time it was run by a white minority and the black races were employed as farm hands and labourers etc, doing menial jobs.

As we know there was a rebellion and the government changed, in the books that I have read it stated that the previous white farm owners were given the option of selling to the government or staying and sharing ownership with their staff.

Not long after that they were all ordered of their properties completely and their staff took ownership. Within 5 years all of the properties ceased to produce any goods for export and very quickly became overgrown waste lands with forests stripped for firewood.

Zimbabwe now has its hand out saying "poor bu**ar us , CC has stopped us growing crops", but they are in that situation because they created it themselves through lack of application.

Click to expand...

Like all African countries since European civilizing missions, I'm sure they all export food and raw materials to the world.

But if they have plenty to eat that they'd export, why were they complaining and wanting to upend that system?

What kill the Irish during the Potato Famine in Ireland? No crops or the crops were "exported" to England? How about the famine in most of VN and Indochina when Imperial Japan occupied it during those few years?

So it's not a simple matter of export figures.

macca said:

In other countries in Africa the farmers claim that if they plant crops they become targets for food thieves, either the rebels stick a gun up their nose and take the food or the Govt forces say we haven't been paid can we have some food please, thank you !

Click to expand...

An interesting fact about Africa and Japan before European's race to divide Africa - that an average kingdom of Africa has the same standard of living as Japan's before the late 19th century European expansion into Africa.

Why did Africa become Africa of today but Japan is what it is? Black people aren't as clever or hardworking?

How does that explain the brown folks and the yellow folks? Japanese are Whiter and White is more superior and hardworking? How does that explain the Yellow Chinese dominating its hemisphere - with Japan included as a vassal state to China - all those millennia?

What's the common thing about today's Third World countries? Beside skin tone and inherent laziness in their blood?

The common theme is all of them were, or still are, colonised.

What does it mean to be colonised? Well if your people weren't mostly wiped out, they will be sold as slaves, or kept as slave and servants. Your cultural heritage are demeaned and destroyed; your natural resources are exploited and "export"; the taxes collected are also offshored with a few bucks paid to the more "moderate" leaders among your people who know and appreciate new civilising ways of the world.

This is not to say that imperialism is a European thing - all countries and people have their moment in that sun where they're the world's "best" and are taking on the burden to lift humanity out of its blah di dah.

So in Africa... European colonisation starts around the time of Napoleon in early 1800s and really got going by 1870s. Then came the first two World Wars being fought on part of the continent; then the post WW2 designation as a storehouse of natural resources for Europe to exploit in its reconstruction... and until recently, China is getting into the act.

So that's about 200 years of civilisation... and we are wondering why a country of such immense natural wealth are starving. It must be the warlords with their few rifles doing the population in.

macca said:

Here in Australia we enjoy a very good life style, it was created by our forefathers (and Mums) for our benefit, we do not have to feel guilty about it as it is a gift from those who have gone before.

Throughout history people have fought endless wars over territory, they have to, otherwise they and their families will soon be overrun and suffer.

Click to expand...

Are the Aborigines also among those forefathers and mothers?

I guess we aren't too honest and put some statue of some Aborigines who were slaughtered so that Australians may enjoy the fruit of their genocide.

There is no need to feel guilty about history, but there is also no need to excuse atrocities committed either. We should learn, recognise that it was a mistake and try to prevent it from happening.

For one thing, there is never a need for anyone to die for anyone else to enjoy their standard of living. Sure it's easier to just wipe some race out and take all their stuff, but morality aside, it's not free or cheap to do imperialism - not for the common people.

You and I all pay our ways in the world; none of the land, the oil, the food are ever given to us. So if, say if, our gov't were to go to the ME, say, and free the Arabs of their tyrants and oil... we here in Australia pay for the cost of that liberation, and we still pay for the oil at international market prices.

The same applies to all other imperial powers throughout history.

You know who doesn't pay for imperial wars of conquest? The warmongers and their logistical supports and suppliers.

So the lesson from history and empire is not that the strong will always do as they please while the weak suffer as they must (Herodotus) - that's an observation, not a lesson to learn and practise.

Lesson ought to be what Uncle Ben said to Peter: with great power come great responsibility.

Or as the rebooted Uncle Ben said: If you could do good things for other people, you have a moral obligation to do those thing. That's what at stake here, not choice - but responsibility.


But responsibility, like kindness, begin and ends at home. So what's our responsibility to our own family and those idiots down the streets?

How do we protect ourselves and our country? By picking fights? By taking people's stuff and they have to be happy we don't also take all their lives too?

You can't unite a country by put fancy words around the idea of everyman for himself and screw the poor, the orphan and the widows. You cannot enrich the country by throwing money to those with so much they don't know what to do with, but kick and blame those with so little they only have their other selves of funny names and different skin colour to blame and hate.

And that's what we've been doing... blaming the poor and the weak; praising the greedy a holes who buy power and influence to rig the national wealth to themselves... both at home and abroad.

So CC? What CC? If people die or lost their home and livelihood... well that's just their problem.

macca said:

If we scour the world looking of problems we will Always find some, simply because we pick the worst situation and hold that up as an example.

Click to expand...

That or we can just pick the best in the world and say everything's just perfect.

So for us lucky few with insulated homes, with an indoor office job, with proper infrastructure for clean water and power at a flick... the impact of climate change might just be a bit more cost at the weekly supermarket.

For those elite who owns and run the world... moving from limos to secured castles to summer homes and winter lodges... and an occasional few minutes among the great unwashed... what climate change? What pollution? What back breaking work in the sun or the snow on what dead field?

And that is why "we" are dragging our feet on the impact of CC, but when it came to the Ozone layer... a big hole in the Southern Hemisphere weren't so bad - it only kills Southern brown people and some Australians anyway... but when it was reported that another hole is opening up in the North, well we can't have that and still sun bake on the Hamptons now can we?

It's a globalised world, as we're told. Crap will spread...

macca said:

We could say that Zimbabwe is a basket case and needs help because they are starving, not that long ago Zimbabwe was a food bowl that exported food. At the time it was run by a white minority and the black races were employed as farm hands and labourers etc, doing menial jobs.

As we know there was a rebellion and the government changed, in the books that I have read it stated that the previous white farm owners were given the option of selling to the government or staying and sharing ownership with their staff.

Not long after that they were all ordered of their properties completely and their staff took ownership. Within 5 years all of the properties ceased to produce any goods for export and very quickly became overgrown waste lands with forests stripped for firewood.

Zimbabwe now has its hand out saying "poor bu**ar us , CC has stopped us growing crops", but they are in that situation because they created it themselves through lack of application.

Click to expand...

Like all African countries since European civilizing missions, I'm sure they all export food and raw materials to the world.

But if they have plenty to eat that they'd export, why were they complaining and wanting to upend that system?

What kill the Irish during the Potato Famine in Ireland? No crops or the crops were "exported" to England? How about the famine in most of VN and Indochina when Imperial Japan occupied it during those few years?

So it's not a simple matter of export figures.

macca said:

In other countries in Africa the farmers claim that if they plant crops they become targets for food thieves, either the rebels stick a gun up their nose and take the food or the Govt forces say we haven't been paid can we have some food please, thank you !

Click to expand...

An interesting fact about Africa and Japan before European's race to divide Africa - that an average kingdom of Africa has the same standard of living as Japan's before the late 19th century European expansion into Africa.

Why did Africa become Africa of today but Japan is what it is? Black people aren't as clever or hardworking?

How does that explain the brown folks and the yellow folks? Japanese are Whiter and White is more superior and hardworking? How does that explain the Yellow Chinese dominating its hemisphere - with Japan included as a vassal state to China - all those millennia?

What's the common thing about today's Third World countries? Beside skin tone and inherent laziness in their blood?

The common theme is all of them were, or still are, colonised.

What does it mean to be colonised? Well if your people weren't mostly wiped out, they will be sold as slaves, or kept as slave and servants. Your cultural heritage are demeaned and destroyed; your natural resources are exploited and "export"; the taxes collected are also offshored with a few bucks paid to the more "moderate" leaders among your people who know and appreciate new civilising ways of the world.

This is not to say that imperialism is a European thing - all countries and people have their moment in that sun where they're the world's "best" and are taking on the burden to lift humanity out of its blah di dah.

So in Africa... European colonisation starts around the time of Napoleon in early 1800s and really got going by 1870s. Then came the first two World Wars being fought on part of the continent; then the post WW2 designation as a storehouse of natural resources for Europe to exploit in its reconstruction... and until recently, China is getting into the act.

So that's about 200 years of civilisation... and we are wondering why a country of such immense natural wealth are starving. It must be the warlords with their few rifles doing the population in.

macca said:

Here in Australia we enjoy a very good life style, it was created by our forefathers (and Mums) for our benefit, we do not have to feel guilty about it as it is a gift from those who have gone before.

Throughout history people have fought endless wars over territory, they have to, otherwise they and their families will soon be overrun and suffer.

Click to expand...

Are the Aborigines also among those forefathers and mothers?

I guess we aren't too honest and put some statue of some Aborigines who were slaughtered so that Australians may enjoy the fruit of their genocide.

There is no need to feel guilty about history, but there is also no need to excuse atrocities committed either. We should learn, recognise that it was a mistake and try to prevent it from happening.

For one thing, there is never a need for anyone to die for anyone else to enjoy their standard of living. Sure it's easier to just wipe some race out and take all their stuff, but morality aside, it's not free or cheap to do imperialism - not for the common people.

You and I all pay our ways in the world; none of the land, the oil, the food are ever given to us. So if, say if, our gov't were to go to the ME, say, and free the Arabs of their tyrants and oil... we here in Australia pay for the cost of that liberation, and we still pay for the oil at international market prices.

The same applies to all other imperial powers throughout history.

You know who doesn't pay for imperial wars of conquest? The warmongers and their logistical supports and suppliers.

So the lesson from history and empire is not that the strong will always do as they please while the weak suffer as they must (Herodotus) - that's an observation, not a lesson to learn and practise.

Lesson ought to be what Uncle Ben said to Peter: with great power come great responsibility.

Or as the rebooted Uncle Ben said: If you could do good things for other people, you have a moral obligation to do those thing. That's what at stake here, not choice - but responsibility.


But responsibility, like kindness, begin and ends at home. So what's our responsibility to our own family and those idiots down the streets?

How do we protect ourselves and our country? By picking fights? By taking people's stuff and they have to be happy we don't also take all their lives too?

You can't unite a country by put fancy words around the idea of everyman for himself and screw the poor, the orphan and the widows. You cannot enrich the country by throwing money to those with so much they don't know what to do with, but kick and blame those with so little they only have their other selves of funny names and different skin colour to blame and hate.

And that's what we've been doing... blaming the poor and the weak; praising the greedy a holes who buy power and influence to rig the national wealth to themselves... both at home and abroad.

So CC? What CC? If people die or lost their home and livelihood... well that's just their problem.

Uncle Ben would be very disappointed.

Ves said:

I can't find any where that says that frost is beneficial or needed for the growing of those fruit or any other types of fruit.

It appears that it's the opposite: worst case scenario the fruit is lost, best case you need to spend money to protect it.

Can you please provide anything to support your comments?

Click to expand...

Those were just my (wrong) understanding of farming

I thought grapes and them citrus won't mind the frost since they tend to grow in colder climates. Opps.

macca said:

Take a look at Europe right now, the lefties have let the hordes in and we will see a bloodbath there before a decade is up. There are problems already with people being told that the "refugees" have the right to do anything they like and the citizens just have to accept it, what a joke! They are the new arrivals they should be learning to fit into the existing laws not make their own. How long before Nazism returns ?

Click to expand...

It might surprise you that most of those refugees will one day greatly contribute to European successes. Just like how all migrant countries greatly benefited from migrants and refugees.

But ignoring studies on refugees' contribution... let's talk about Nazism.

What is it and why is it so bad?

What did the Nazi and Hitler's Germany do that were so horrible? Not saying it's not, so bear with me.

They consider themselves the Master Race? The superior gene and the right kind of hair and skin colour?

They invade other countries, kill a bunch of innocent people and take their resources?

They use "science" and their gut feeling to brand an entire people degenerate parasite that should be shipped offshore, locked those who were returned, then murder them?


Some of us don't consider Muslims and Islam to be pure evil?
We don't invade countries, flatten their cities and call it liberation?
We don't create internal refugees, flood neighbouring countries with dislocated people, then watch as they drown trying to cross into our territory to "invade" us, rape our women, and will one day murder us all?

Nazism aren't already here?

macca said:

The first problem is that there are too many of us, China tried to limit it and the human rights, bleeding hearts, condemned them yet how different would Africa be if they limited their breeding to one per family ?

Click to expand...

If China's one child policy is such a success, why did they recently repeal it?

Population is never a problem; it will never be a problem... if we distribute the wealth and stop exploiting and stealing people's crap.

There are fat farms and diet clinics and gym and health experts in third world countries. They cater for the few rich and not at all corrupted fat cats who must diet and cut back on too much of a good thing... all the while those around them could barely afford a decent meal once a day.

macca said:

Climates will always vary, always have, always will and when the land is overgrazed by animals or humans there is no buffer for the poor times and animals and people starve until the right number is left. In Africa the west has been feeding people for decades and the people that we fed as children now have their own children and now we are feeding them as well. While ever they fight and squabble over there ideology, religion, corruption and anything else they can think of instead of working the land properly with the right number of people it will always be a problem.

Click to expand...

Yea, the West has been very generous to Africans.

To be fair, Western citizens are very generous. It's our masters of wars and policy makers that's psychotic.

But if we're free, able to question our gov't, maybe even influence their decisions somewhat if we're upset enough... yet we buy into their bs story and become their useful idiots... ah well.

luutzu said:

Frank Luntz is a political consultant. I can't imagine Climate scientists would call him in to ask which works better at manipulating the public.

Well, there's those Solar and renewables corporations like GE I guess.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-b1GCZWQF-M

Click to expand...

Frank Luntz did not create the term "Climate Change". People like Wallace Broecker were using it way back in the mid 70's when he (Frank) would have still been in primary school. It's always been a US disease, taking credit for other people's work.

Tisme said:

Frank Luntz did not create the term "Climate Change". People like Wallace Broecker were using it way back in the mid 70's when he (Frank) would have still been in primary school. It's always been a US disease, taking credit for other people's work.

Click to expand...

I think Luntz took the credit for popularising it for political speak, encouraging lobbyists and gov't to use it instead of "Global Warming".

Either way, it's already not going well for a lot of people.

Heard that a few years just before the current "civil war" in Syria, it suffered from a massive drought. Driving farmers into cities, overstressing security and infrastructure.

There's Bangladesh and southern India where the early melting of glaciers also mean hundreds of millions do not have enough access to water for parts of the year. So if the sea rises a bit more and the glaciers disappear quicker than usual...

Blimey Luutzu,

That is long enough to be a novel but no need to post it twice

As far as I can gather you have covered every possibility in the history of the human race.

I always admire someone who is dedicated to there beliefs, it seems to give them great solace. I have a brother in law who, without his christianity would be completely over whelmed by the world. It is so easy to poke holes in his statements but what is the point, he believes it so I leave him to it.

Just as I do now with you

macca said:

Blimey Luutzu,

That is long enough to be a novel but no need to post it twice

As far as I can gather you have covered every possibility in the history of the human race.

I always admire someone who is dedicated to there beliefs, it seems to give them great solace. I have a brother in law who, without his christianity would be completely over whelmed by the world. It is so easy to poke holes in his statements but what is the point, he believes it so I leave him to it.

Just as I do now with you

Click to expand...

There was a delay and I thought the site logged me off. But did add an extra line regarding Uncle Ben though.

I can backed pretty much all of what I said above with facts, so maybe it's not just my personal belief and biases. And no, you cannot poke holes into them arguments - besides bad grammar and missing words.

And no, thinking the way I do doesn't make me feel better. Think enough about it and I might have to get off my hinnies and do something... and that's a lot of work, and it put my loved ones in danger

So are we warming or are we vacillating?



http://notrickszone.com/285-papers-70s-cooling-1/

http://notrickszone.com/285-papers-70s-cooling-2/

http://notrickszone.com/285-papers-70s-cooling-3/

Ves said:

I can't find any where that says that frost is beneficial or needed for the growing of those fruit or any other types of fruit.

It appears that it's the opposite: worst case scenario the fruit is lost, best case you need to spend money to protect it.

Can you please provide anything to support your comments?

Click to expand...

Some stone fruits can handle some frost but in the main, a term of "CHILL" in winter/spring is required to enhance a good crop.


https://www.daf.qld.gov.au/plants/f...nuts/stonefruit/land-and-climate-requirements

Chilling

Stonefruit require a period of winter cold to break dormancy, which is particularly important in coastal areas. The number of hours below 7 ° C required to condition the tree to break dormancy and resume normal growth is called the chilling requirement.

The chilling requirement varies according to the type and variety of stonefruit. It can be as low as 50 hours for some peaches and as high as 1200 hours for some European plums. It is important to choose varieties with the correct chilling requirement for your area.

See the stonefruit information kit for advice on how to assess the amount of chilling received at your farm site.

Inadequate chilling occurs when varieties with a high chilling requirement are grown in warm areas. It results in death of flower buds, bud shed, erratic flowering, poor fruit set and poor fruit size. Leaf development is also delayed and erratic. In very severe cases, the shoots may remain dormant and die back. Some varieties will set fruit under such conditions but fruit may become more pointed and sutures more prominent, reducing its quality.

If a variety's chilling requirement is satisfied too soon in a location susceptible to late frosts, the crop and tree may be damaged. Small green fruit are more susceptible to frost damage than the blossoms. Once buds have started growing, a frost below -2 °C can damage the tree. Consequently, it is important that trees are planted on elevated sites with good air drainage to avoid damage from spring frost.

Frost

Frost damage to flowers and fruitlets in spring can severely reduce yields. Stonefruit at the small green fruit stage are more susceptible to frost damage than the blossoms. Peaches and nectarines are marginally more tolerant to frost than apricots and plums. High sites with good air drainage are used to avoid spring frost damage.

Ves said:

I can't find any where that says that frost is beneficial or needed for the growing of those fruit or any other types of fruit.

It appears that it's the opposite: worst case scenario the fruit is lost, best case you need to spend money to protect it.

Can you please provide anything to support your comments?

Click to expand...

In fact a number of fruits need significant levels of chilling to enable them to fruit and flower properly. That doesn't necessarily mean hard frosts; just extended levels of low temperature at night.

One of the consequences of global warming which raises the overall temperature is that many areas which current grow stone fruit for example won't be able to.

http://agriculture.vic.gov.au/agric...d-nuts/stone-fruit/chill-units-of-stone-fruit

Thanks guys!

Tisme said:

So are we warming or are we vacillating?

View attachment 68729

http://notrickszone.com/285-papers-70s-cooling-1/

http://notrickszone.com/285-papers-70s-cooling-2/

http://notrickszone.com/285-papers-70s-cooling-3/

Click to expand...

For Real Tisme? You are citing graphs and papers that only run until the mid 70's ?
What are we to make of what has happened since then ?

That website seems to be in a time warp. There is nothing wrong with looking at data and analysis from 40 years ago but the fact of the matter is that global temperatures have soared in teh last 40 years.

That's why the overwhelming body of science recognises we have a serious problem.


By the way the graph I have posted seems out of date. In 2016 the global average temperature were well over 1 degree from the previous normal.

basilio said:

For Real Tisme? You are citing graphs and papers that only run until the mid 70's ?
What are we to make of what has happened since then ?

That website seems to be in a time warp. There is nothing wrong with looking at data and analysis from 40 years ago but the fact of the matter is that global temperatures have soared in teh last 40 years.

That's why the overwhelming body of science recognises we have a serious problem.

View attachment 68735
By the way the graph I have posted seems out of date. In 2016 the global average temperature were well over 1 degree from the previous normal.

Click to expand...

It's part of a conspiracy blog that maintains the global warming is a furphy for profit notion. It's a silver back wikipedia editor driving it by removing the cooling facts ... .apparently

noco said:

Some stone fruits can handle some frost but in the main, a term of "CHILL" in winter/spring is required to enhance a good crop.


https://www.daf.qld.gov.au/plants/f...nuts/stonefruit/land-and-climate-requirements

Chilling

Stonefruit require a period of winter cold to break dormancy, which is particularly important in coastal areas. The number of hours below 7 ° C required to condition the tree to break dormancy and resume normal growth is called the chilling requirement.

The chilling requirement varies according to the type and variety of stonefruit. It can be as low as 50 hours for some peaches and as high as 1200 hours for some European plums. It is important to choose varieties with the correct chilling requirement for your area.

See the stonefruit information kit for advice on how to assess the amount of chilling received at your farm site.

Inadequate chilling occurs when varieties with a high chilling requirement are grown in warm areas. It results in death of flower buds, bud shed, erratic flowering, poor fruit set and poor fruit size. Leaf development is also delayed and erratic. In very severe cases, the shoots may remain dormant and die back. Some varieties will set fruit under such conditions but fruit may become more pointed and sutures more prominent, reducing its quality.

If a variety's chilling requirement is satisfied too soon in a location susceptible to late frosts, the crop and tree may be damaged. Small green fruit are more susceptible to frost damage than the blossoms. Once buds have started growing, a frost below -2 °C can damage the tree. Consequently, it is important that trees are planted on elevated sites with good air drainage to avoid damage from spring frost.

Frost

Frost damage to flowers and fruitlets in spring can severely reduce yields. Stonefruit at the small green fruit stage are more susceptible to frost damage than the blossoms. Peaches and nectarines are marginally more tolerant to frost than apricots and plums. High sites with good air drainage are used to avoid spring frost damage.

Click to expand...

Thanks noco, that's very honest of you sir.

Maybe you'd be fighting on the right side of facts and history if you didn't subscribe to the Murdoch press jk.

btw, reading an old biography of Murdoch ["The Paper Prince" by Munster] and guess who the young Murdoch was supporting for PM?

Gough Whitlam!

Yea, the Murdoch papers were all for Whitlam before they decided to go for Fraser a few years later.

Though Whitlam did say that Murdoch was only going for him because the political climate show Whitlam would win and Uncle Rupee wants to be credited as the king maker. Something he use to sell more ads and scare more politicians with.

luutzu said:

Thanks noco, that's very honest of you sir.

Maybe you'd be fighting on the right side of facts and history if you didn't subscribe to the Murdoch press jk.

btw, reading an old biography of Murdoch ["The Paper Prince" by Munster] and guess who the young Murdoch was supporting for PM?

Gough Whitlam!

Yea, the Murdoch papers were all for Whitlam before they decided to go for Fraser a few years later.

Though Whitlam did say that Murdoch was only going for him because the political climate show Whitlam would win and Uncle Rupee wants to be credited as the king maker. Something he use to sell more ads and scare more politicians with.

Click to expand...

Whitlam was a true FABIAN (commo).:topic

:iagree::iagree:

noco said:

Whitlam was a true FABIAN (commo).:topic

Click to expand...

Yes we've come a long way since then,

Everyone for himself and just about broke.:1zhelp:

explod said:

:iagree::iagree:

Yes we've come a long way since then,

Everyone for himself and just about broke.:1zhelp:

Click to expand...

Especially in Tassie, where Greens have the most influence

noco said:

Whitlam was a true FABIAN (commo).:topic

Click to expand...

So Murdoch's bedding of the Chinese commo a couple decade ago weren't an accident then?