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Resisting Climate Hysteria


I can readily see how your "peer reviewed" equine papers could be suspect. No problems at all.

I don't think that CC science is in the ballpark.

I made two basic statements

One. Temperatures are rising at an historically very rapid rate.
Two. The overwhelming majority of climate scientists believe that CO2 and other GG are the main driver of this temperature increase. The reason they think is is because they have analysed the wide range of other climate change drivers and on all the evidence to date GG are the current principal driver.

This doesn't have to complicated. Find evidence to disprove theses statements. (And that doesn't mean saying all the meteorological societies around the world are in a global conspiracy to create a One World Government.
 

Bas, we have heard it all before....Why do you keep repeating yourself?

But Bas, I keep telling you, it was warmer in Greenland and the Arctic 1000 years ago than it is today

Don't you believe me?
 

No it doesn't have to be complicated at all.

There are things that are known to be true.

There are things that are known to be untrue.

There are also things that are unknown and/or uncertain.

There are things that are believed or opined to be either, true, untrue unknown and/or uncertain.

There is a difference between reality and opinion of reality.

To assert that something claimed to be true by a select few, must be considered true unless detractors can prove otherwise, is simply deflecting the burden of proof away from where it truly belongs.
 
Bas, we have heard it all before....Why do you keep repeating yourself?

But Bas, I keep telling you, it was warmer in Greenland and the Arctic 1000 years ago than it is today

Don't you believe me?

Who can, your reference would not come up properly and your explanation was cloudy to say the least.

Give some anthropological and physical evidence and we can have a proper look at it.
 
Who can, your reference would not come up properly and your explanation was cloudy to say the least.

Give some anthropological and physical evidence and we can have a proper look at it.

I think I have posted the info 3 times already...How many more times do you want it?
 
I think I have posted the info 3 times already...How many more times do you want it?

Yes, but not convincing. Sure there were parts then that were green for a few hundred years which allowed settlement.

However it had no effect on the three kilometer thick 400,000 year old ice sheet. It remained intact till recent times. The perma frost under it is breaking up and it is melting.

Noco, some of this icemelt has been intact for 800,000 years. Did not think I would need to bother with stuff that even school children are aware of.

Things are happening this time before our eyes which show, we have a problem
 

The dots have already been joined by the professional bodies wayne, who say that CC is unequivocal. I couldn't be bothered going back to find the statement that I posted by the American Meteorological Society to that effect , but I'm sure you can find it in this thread if you cared to look.
 
Bas, we have heard it all before....Why do you keep repeating yourself?

But Bas, I keep telling you, it was warmer in Greenland and the Arctic 1000 years ago than it is today

Don't you believe me?

Arctic temps


 

I can see you just don't want to accept what I have given you because you have your mind set otherwise....

Go to Google and see for yourself.

I cannot be bothered arguing anymore with somebody who will not accept the reality of history over continued false repetitive information put out on a daily basis.....

If you would only get off your bum and take a cruise to Glacier Bay off the Alaskan Coast you WIIL see with your own eyes...You will note...WOW..they are the same photos the Greens have been using for propaganda on Climate Change.....LOOK.....THE ICE IS MELTING....Of course the ice is falling into the sea as Glaciers are moving all the time.

Have you ever been to Alaska?
 

I only made 2 points Cynic

1) The temperature on earth has gone up very rapidly (by geological standards) in the past 50-80 years
2) The view of the vast majority of CC scientists is that Greenhouse Gases are the current major driver of this temp increase

The first statement is empirical. For evidence we have the temperature records around the world . Of course that doesn't stop a number of people trying to say these records are cooked/ manipulated/part of a conspiracy.

The second statement is clearly not empirical. There are a number of drivers of Climate Change. The last 40 years of climate research has added enormously to our understanding of the earths climate systems.

Clearly we don't know everything. And what we think we know could change. But at the present time and with the present information excessive GG are seen as the driver of the present warming.

We can wait for absolute certainty - or we can act on what we currently understand. In any case moving to a clean, renewable energy based society is a no regrets strategy.
 

Okay I'm going to repeat myself for the 484,764,145,036th time.

I agree that climate change is unequivocal. As skeptics keep reiterating, climate changes. I also agree that current changes are showing a warming trend, have done so since the end of the little ice age, also unequivocal IMO.

I also agree there have been anthropogenic factors in said change,

However I don't agree with the Apocalypse fantasists who promote some worst case scenario. I believe that climate science is not conducted honestly or fairly, that scientists MUST have pro CAGW hypotheses to gain funding for research.

I am also deeply suspicious of the retrospective adjustment of temperature records which always miraculously increase the temperature trend.

I also believe there are political and/or mercantile motives in exaggerating the warming trend.

I am more concerned about general pollution and environmental degradation than co2 (which I do not consider a pollutant) emissions. However the two often go hand in hand and therefore support renewable engery technologies, so long as we aren't robbing Peter to pay Paul; IOW supplanting one time of pollution with another such as is the case with Toyota Pious' et al.

Pielke Snr has a great summary here:https://pielkeclimatesci.wordpress....tive-on-the-role-of-humans-in-climate-change/


As far as the meteorological and other science bodies go, their statements do not reflect the spectrum of views of their membership and are more or less politically imperative in order to gaurantee funding.
 
NASA article. Not sure if NASA have reason to fake data, but I found this interesting:

Evidence of Arctic Warming



There's even a colour chart for Noco to admonish and play Perry Mason with

http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Features/ArcticIce/arctic_ice3.php
 

100years Phsst!!!!!!

Go back 1000 years it was a lot warmer then than it is today.

Yeah...pretty charts can be set up by anyone who is computer savvy...more manipulation of the truth..... .so long as the Greenies catch the eye.....That is main objective and you must admit they look very impressive even though the degrees are graded in minute increases.....It does not even mention who set up that computer chart.
 
100years Phsst!!!!!!

Go back 1000 years it was a lot warmer then than it is today.

.

I must admit I'm having trouble understanding that statement. It could well qualify why Europeans decided to go crackers with war games, including 1066, but from what I've read we are in new territory since man invented fire.

Karl Kruszelnicki was on ABC radio last week, in his usual timeslot, and far from being alarmist he simply pointed out that as the climate heats up we will migrate to the poles at great cost/profit and adapt, albeit with a crap lifestyle and drastic population reduction. Apparently the equatorial band was uninhabitable millions of years ago, which must have been before the great migrations.

I have tended to limit my source info to scientific organs, although I think Newscorp now has direct influence over National Geographic? so that will probably degenerate into a propaganda pulp to be lapped up by lesser breeds.
 
I must admit I'm having trouble understanding that statement. It could well qualify why Europeans decided to go crackers with war games, including 1066, but from what I've read we are in new territory since man invented fire.

Ah yes.....1066 ...William Cromwell.....I remembered that one from British history at school.....Just can't remember his significance.....Guess I will have to google it.
 
Ah yes.....1066 ...William Cromwell.....I remembered that one from British history at school.....Just can't remember his significance.....Guess I will have to google it.

Orange
 


http://www.hrp.org.uk/discover-the-palaces/monarchs/william-i/

:topic



r 1066-87

Famous for invading England in 1066

‘The Conquerer’ was the Duke of Normandy in Northern France. He defeated and killed King Harold II at the Battle of Hastings. His descendents have ruled England ever since.
William I at the Tower

To conquer England, William and the Normans built castles at strategic sites. One of the most important was the Tower of London. Although not completed until after his death, the credit for the White Tower and the choice of site belong to William the Conqueror.

Known to us now as 'The Conqueror' William was known as ‘William the Bastard’, before he conquered England, as his parents, Duke Robert ‘the Devil’ of Normandy and Herleve, the daughter of a tanner from Falaise, were not married.

The next Monarch to have a significant impact on the Tower was Henry III.
 
As far as the meteorological and other science bodies go, their statements do not reflect the spectrum of views of their membership and are more or less politically imperative in order to gaurantee funding.

Sounds reasonable wayne. As to the representation of the members of professional bodies supporting or opposed to CC, that will always be variable in a system that is not capable of experimental validation.

If professional bodies make official policy statements I think we have to assume that it represents the majority of their members. This may change over time if new evidence is collected, but I think that the current pace of increasing temperatures will convert the sceptics rather than lead to increased scepticism.

If you are implying that professional bodies are altering data in order to get funding, that's a serious charge which requires more evidence than just your opinion.
 
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