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Resisting Climate Hysteria

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noco said:

It is because it is not an issue any more among the majority who now realize it is a farce, a scam and a manipulation.

:horse:
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It has gone off the radar because the current Government will not discuss it and have taken considerable steps to ensure the press do not also. Nearest they will allow is to talk about el nino, which is just a part of weather cycles anyway.

How can you say it is a farce, lol, it might be true, you have not put up any reasoning or evidence at all to counter the overwhelming pointers of huge weather change that is obvious to those of us who live within and actually watch nature and the weather.
 

Where have you been plod?......You are asleep at the wheel and you are headed for a large tree on the side of the road....You say now it "MIGHT BE TRUE"......are you now starting to have doubts yourself?

No reasonable evidence you say!!!!!!!!!

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It has gone off the radar because the alarmist have been proven wrong over and over again.....Need I mention Tim Flannery?......or is his name a dirty word among you alarmist?
 
No doubt in my mind at all noco. My suggestion is, do you think you may be wrong? If it's even only slightly then you and the other deniers and doubters are taking a great risk with the future of our planet.

So think about it noco, what if you are wrong?

So even if there is just a small chance that co2 (coal, oil and gas) are destroying our planet then in all consciousness we need to change away from these filthy things and move to alternative, wind, solar and wave power. Forget dams, they are drying up.

And these alternative industry changes will create lots of jobs. Have asked you many times where are tge jobs coming from and all youcan do is mumble up your sleave about lefties, commos and unions. Of couse they are going to go crook and be against you if your mob don't provide real opportunities.

So alternative energy, here is your chance noco on jobs and to remove that uneasy feeling in your mind that you are not doing anything about the looming posibility that climate change is real.

But can assure you noco, there has never ever been any doubt in my mind.
 
explod said:
No doubt in my mind at all noco.
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Therein lies the problem. Whatever evidence is presented to you, you say you are unable to change your mind.

explod said:
My suggestion is, do you think you may be wrong? If it's even only slightly then you and the other deniers and doubters are taking a great risk with the future of our planet.
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Rational people never see things as 100% black or white. There is ALWAYS a balance of probabilities, based on evidence driven
probabilistic data models; they always consider the chance that new evidence may arise that changes those probabilities & models. A rational person always holds a little doubt.

explod said:
there has never ever been any doubt in my mind.
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I'm afraid that comes across as a faith based conclusion, rather than a rational thinking process.

Is there anything that would make you change your mind ? Global temps stabilising for 20 years ? Sea levels continuing the pattern prior to significant carbon emissions ? Something else ?
 

My Father in the 1950s was worried about climate change. The farm where I grew up was mud to the ankles from April to November every year. Now dry through every winter. On the way to school we collected tadpoles, there have been no frogs there since the first big dry of 1969. Dad was very upset at the Premier back then, Henry Bolte allowing the clearing of land near the Otways. The weather in the Western district changed dramatically after that. This of course is not current co2 effect but to point out that our family were/are close weather watches. My Grandfather, also a farmer was particularly active against land clearing and his letter can be found in the archives of newspaper articles at Bendigo library. Was there doing research yesterday. My Greatgrandfather and his two brothers arrived in Australia as a result of the potatoe famine in Ireland.

Was in Queensland as a shearer and witnessed the sheep being transported south in 1970 as a result of a very long drought. Loss of trees and vegitation of course. But now there is little left to absorbe the co2. Therefore our only solution is to stop releasing co2.

Beliefs are airy fairy in the sky in my view. I can see what is happenning on the ground and it is very bleak indeed. Some species have perished from the climate change over the last few years that at have taken millions of years to evolve in those places. Case in point, a few years back at Mount Martha, vic., we had a burst of 49 degrees late one afternoon. Next morning under the trees along the Belcolm Creek a whole species of possum were lying. Never to be seen again. So this was the hottest day there for millions of years.

Forget the conflicting arguments of the scientists, just get out and talk to farmers and older people who have been serious gardeners all their lives and you will soon realise "Houston we have a problem"
 
keithj said:
Is there anything that would make you change your mind ? Global temps stabilising for 20 years ? Sea levels continuing the pattern prior to significant carbon emissions ? Something else ?
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What would convince you that climate change is real and man made ?

Rank
1 = Warmest
Period of Record: 1880–2015 Year Anomaly °C Anomaly °F
1 2015 0.90 1.62
2 2014 0.74 1.33
3 2010 0.70 1.26
4 2013 0.66 1.19
5 2005 0.65 1.17
6 (tie) 1998 0.63 1.13
6 (tie) 2009 0.63 1.13
8 2012 0.62 1.12
9 (tie) 2003 0.61 1.10
9 (tie) 2006 0.61 1.10
9 (tie) 2007 0.61 1.10
12 2002 0.60 1.08
13 (tie) 2004 0.57 1.03
13 (tie) 2011 0.57 1.03
15 (tie) 2001 0.54 0.97
15 (tie) 2008 0.54 0.97


A lot of the hottest years of record in the last 20 years.

Does that say anything to you ?
 


How come a few years back you alarmist could talk nothing but man mad Global Warming but now it is climate change?...Is it because the facts are on the table there has been no Global Warming in the past 20 years.

Look, I believe as well as millions of others that climate change is real....The climate has been changing for millions of years and will continue to do so......even as little as a century or two ago there was climate change which was long before the claim that climate change is man made.....I was born in the early 1930's and have seen lots of climate change over the years......It is a natural phenomena created by the Sun, the elliptic circuit the Earth traverses around the Sun, the angle of the Earth axis which changes from time to time and the radiation from small and large explosion on the Sun which has dramatic affects on the Eartha and no doubt other planets in the Solar system.

There has never been any doubt in my mind that this argument that keeps popping up under the Green Alarmist banner is a manipulated farce and a scam which has a hidden agenda.....I also believe the UN is behind most of it in an attempt at world government under one supreme commander ..After all Ban-ki- Moon and most of his UN followers are Greenies.

Time for all this crap to end...full stop.
 

Let's play the ball, Keith, not the man.

There is, and there should be, willingness to accept new evidence. Such evidence can then be built into a scientific model to refine it and arrive at more precise extrapolations.
The problem at the core of this debate is a simple one: What is the risk if either side is wrong?

If the majority of Climate Scientists were wrong and temperatures and sea levels were miraculously reverting to pre-industrial levels, what effect would that have?
A: The air would be cleaner. Energy would be cheaper and available everywhere there's sunshine, wind, or ocean waves. Oil and coal wouldn't be wasted by one-time consumption, creating mainly useless heat, but remain available for future generations to turn into plastics and useful products we haven't even dreamed of today.

If the Pollution Industry wins the argument and turns out wrong, what effect would that have long-term?
A: Oil, Gas, and Coal companies would continue to flourish, control Governments and Public Opinion, and pay their loyal shareholders token dividends, their directors and media consultants obscene salaries.
Outside their office towers and penthouse suites, the air will be too thick to breathe. But don't worry, we'll sell you portable oxygen pumps to keep you alive. At a small markup, you can even get the battery-driven model that you can recharge at any (coal-fired) power station.
Ocean waves will be lapping at the threshold of every Australian State Parliament. Canberra will probably remain dry, although they would deserve it the most. But don't worry, we'll build sea walls around the wealthiest suburbs that should keep them dry most of the time. And even if they fail to withstand a once-in-a-lifetime flood, don't worry, we'll offer you comprehensive insurance premiums that spread the risk across all of Australia.

Based on those risks, and taking into account the overwhelming odds that Climate Science is closest to the truth, I'll continue to favour any Policy that cuts pollution. I hope it's not too late,
 
pixel said:
Let's play the ball, Keith, not the man.
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What would change your mind ? is such a simple, yet powerful question.

Ask any believer what it would take to change their mind about God.

If the response is either anecdotal or a deflection, or some other failure to answer, then there's no point continuing debate.

So, I feel I am playing the ball and not the man - I am genuinely interested in the answer to what is a really simple question that any rational debater should have a ready answer to.

If your god appeared in front of me & 1000 sceptics and performed miracles on demand on a regular basis then I would change my mind about him/her.

If the temperature uniformly changed with a change in CO2 emissions (discounting other natural factors), and a series of peer reviewed papers & models supported the correlation over a statistically significant period of time, then I'd take it seriously.

pixel said:
The problem at the core of this debate is a simple one: What is the risk if either side is wrong?
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That's black & white thinking again. The overwhelming likelihood is that it'll get warmer in some places & cooler in others, sea levels will rise in some places, land will rise in others.... just like it has for millennia.

And just like the last few billion years, every living thing will adapt (some will perish, new species will evolve), just like it would if the only CO2 emissions were from higher than average volcanic activity (which incidentally is how the IPCC explains the last 20 yrs of stable temps).


Your (& others) view is that the likelihood is high, and the impact is also high.

Others view it as currently low probability, and that impact will be that stuff changes, some for the better, some for the worse... just like it has since well before the dinosaurs. Humans (& indeed everything else alive today) have survived not because they can forecast this sort of stuff, but because they can adapt to it.

Surely a lot better solution is to adapt, rather than spend a significant percentage of GDP on what many believe is the impossible task of changing nature.
 
keithj said:
Surely a lot better solution is to adapt, rather than spend a significant percentage of GDP on what many believe is the impossible task of changing nature.
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A question there is what is cheapest?

In Tasmania even the Liberals seem to be becoming aware that the cost is real, is occurring now, and is rising. All up, the known and measurable effects on both the public and private sectors of the economy are at least $1 billion thus far and that's in a small state with just over 2% of the national population. It's arguable as to why the climate is changing, but it most certainly is changing and that's already starting to get expensive.

At the national level it could well send us broke. Putting in irrigation schemes on an island where there's a river only 20km away from the farm is one thing. Sending water from the NT to farms in NSW is a far bigger problem.
 
SirRumpole said:
Indeed it is.

Shut up.
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By you and whose army?:sword::sword::sword:

Typical Fabian tactic......Don't let the deniers have their say......It is the Fabian rule or no other rule.

Nice bloke you are....Have a good socialist day.
 
noco said:
By you and whose army?:sword::sword::sword:

Typical Fabian tactic......Don't let the deniers have their say......It is the Fabian rule or no other rule.

Nice bloke you are....Have a good socialist day.
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Always try for the last word noco.

Solar flares and other sun storms have little effect on global warming in fact.

As I have pointed out many times, (and you choose to ignore the fact) the earth and sun are supposed to be cooling from the firballs they were some 5 plus billion years ago.

The other fact you ignore is that previous warmings actually occurred over thousands of years. Some of the coolings were fast due to volcanoes or metiorites. The situation being recorded and sighted now is very different and unnatural.

Deforestation followed by the burning of fossill fuels is the cause today and it somehow has to be stopped.
 

Nice to note your confession that Global Warming, oops I mean Climate Change had occurred millions of years ago and as little as 100 years..

You have pointed out nothing only a lot of Greenie rhetoric.
Yes we burn lots of fossil fuel in Australia as noted every year with the bush fires......lots of smoke going into the atmosphere......HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!! we are all going to die.
 

I also heard that Reagan said farming, particularly them rice fields in Asia, is a leading cause of ...CO2? Well, it somehow causes more damage to the environment than the combustion engines and factories and power plants.

Also heard that the last time Earth have this massive rate of species extinction was when Dinosaurs walks the Earth and an asteroid hit it or/and massive volcanoes toxicate the atmosphere.

I haven't seen or heard any massive asteroid hitting Earth past couple centuries; neither has any extensive volcano activities... so what the heck causes this massive extinction of species since 65 million years ago?

Must be just the weather changing as it always has. Nothing to do with stupid homosapiens.
 
noco said:
Typical Fabian tactic......Don't let the deniers have their say......It is the Fabian rule or no other rule.
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You continue to have your say, it's just a lot of rubbish conspiracy theories.

Did you even look at the table that showed that the hottest 16 years in the last 140 years occured in the last 20 years ?

That is more than the occasional warm year and indicates a trend which we can't afford to ignore.
 

You ignore the facts put up and merely scoff with head in the sand
 
What does Climate Change look like in 2016 ? One of the big issues is the warming of the oceans. One of the consequences is the death of coral reefs that can't cope with the warmer temperatures.

Have a look at what is happening to the Great Barrier Reef today.


http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/apr/17/great-barrier-reef-worst-destruction

One could ask the question of how earlier El Ninos didn't affect the reefs so badly.

Simple. The temperature of the oceans before the El Nino were comfortably low enough to allow for the short term increase. In 2016 that is no longer the case.
 

No ocean warming , no cyclones in NQ this season......Ocean has to be 28c for cyclones to form.....Ocean therefore must be cooling.

The good old commo paper the Guardian cheery picked one isolated case ...what about the other 2500 km of reef....he better check that out too.
 
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