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SirRumpole said:
So where are people actually following this ?
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Also, just remember, your claim wasn't that there were no people following those bible verses, your claim was that those bible verse didn't exist, so said the bible didn't instruct followers to commit violence rather just let god do it, the reason I posted those verses was to show that in fact it does command followers to kill non believers, as well a bunch of other people.

But as I have pointed out, not only do these verses exist, but there are still Africans following them.
 
Value Collector said:
The LRA is just one example.

Islam is just like Christianity, it is made up of many groups, some are extreme and some aren't.

Islam is not one thing or one group of people, just like Christianity isn't one thing.
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Your straw man argument is really quite silly.

OK there are a few looney Christian cults, but I haven't seen anyone holding up cafes or shooting innocent people on Sydney streets or planning bomb attacks in the name of Christianity in this country. What happens in Africa is irrelevant to me.

As I said before, Islam is the threat to public safety in this country now, no matter how much you try to deflect the problem elsewhere.

How are we to know who is a "good" Muslim and who is about to pull a gun on us ?

Other countries with a higher proportional Muslim population are now wishing that they never let them in in the first place.

Let that be a lesson to us.
 
SirRumpole said:
Your straw man argument is really quite silly.

.
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lol, straw man.

you said this
In the Bible the violent bits are supposed to be done by God himself to show his displeasure, in the Koran it seems to be encouraging his followers to carry out those acts
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I then showed you a few verses that showed what you said was wrong.

So then you said this.

So where are people actually following this ?
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So this is called moving the goal posts, first you claimed the verse didn't exist, then when you found out it exists, you said but no one follows that anyway.

So I gave you an example of people who did follow it. so you then made out that my example were terrorists not Christians. when you said this

Anyway, the "religious" USA has declared the LRA a terrorist organisation
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Then when faced with the problem of there being fanatical Christian groups you retreated to the position of saying you only care about what happens in Australia, which has nothing to do with your original claim that the bible didn't instruct followers to commit violence

So no, I am not making a straw man, your shifting the goal posts.
 
Value Collector said:
lol, straw man.

you said this


I then showed you a few verses that showed what you said was wrong.

So then you said this.



So this is called moving the goal posts, first you claimed the verse didn't exist, then when you found out it exists, you said but no one follows that anyway.

So I gave you an example of people who did follow it. so you then made out that my example were terrorists not Christians.

Then when faced with the problem of there being fanatical Christian groups you retreated to the position of saying you only care about what happens in Australia, which has nothing to do with your original claim that the bible didn't instruct followers to commit violence

So no, I am not making a straw man, you shifting the goal posts.
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You can discuss the Bible vs the Koran argument as long as you like but I'm not going down that road.

Frankly I'm not interested in religion of any kind, what I'm worried about is threats to public safety in this country, now and in the future as a result of a poisoned ideology that has global power and is spreading like a cancer with a desire to convert other cultures to its own sick brand of theological autocracy.

What I said about other countries holds true. You haven't forgotten Charlie Hebdo ?

Now we have violence on our own streets caused by these lunatics.

You can't deal with isolated cases of lunacy, but you can deal with the ideology that fosters radicalism by not letting it get any larger. That's the first step. Religion has to be kept in a box and the more poisonous the religion, the smaller the box needs to be.
 
SirRumpole said:
You can discuss the Bible vs the Koran argument as long as you like but I'm not going down that road.

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You are the one that brought up the Koran when you said this.

Until the violent parts of the Koran and other Islamic texts are expunged or publicly repudiated by Muslim leaders around the world, Muslims will not be entirely trusted.
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I was just pointing out that if that's the reason for not trusting Muslims, then you can't trust the other books followers either, Because they have the same stuff in it.

They are actually very similar religions, the only difference is your personal experience is with moderate Christians, where as your only experience with Muslims is the extremists you see on the news.
 
Knobby22 said:
And there are no laws like Sharia.
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Yes, there are. Hundreds. Two examples....

Leviticus 20:10

"'If a man commits adultery with another man's wife--with the wife of his neighbor--both the adulterer and the adulteress are to be put to death.

Deuteronomy 21:18–21

If any man has a stubborn and rebellious son who will not obey his father or his mother, and when they chastise him, he will not even listen to them, then his father and mother shall seize him, and bring him out to the elders of his city at the gateway of his home town. And they shall say to the elders of his city, “This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey us, he is a glutton and a drunkard.” Then all the men of his city shall stone him to death; so you shall remove the evil from your midst, and all Israel shall hear of it and fear."


There are laws such as don't eat pork in the old testament but that is not Christianity.
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Why not. What did Jesus reportedly say about the old laws?

Matthew 5:17

"Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.…"
 
Knobby22 said:
Christianity mate, not Judaism.
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Don't you follow Jesus? He said none of the law will change until heaven and earth disappear.

Do you have a reference to where Jesus said the laws of the bible don't matter anymore? Which bible do you think Jesus read from? Do you think he ate bacon?

Hell, where do you think the 10 commandments came from? Do they not matter anymore, if they still count, why not the other rules in the same book.
 
Knobby22 said:
Christianity mate, not Judaism.
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You do realise that Judaism, Islam and Christianity all have the same root? That is why they are referred to as Abrahamic religions. Large tracts of the Old Testament are incorporated in the Koran and it was the laws of the Old Testament that Jesus was referring to in the quote from Matthew I gave. If you think the Old Testament has nothing to do with Christianity why do so many Christians quote from Leviticus when claiming God/Jesus is against homosexuality? The quote most often used.....

You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination. (NKJ, Leviticus 18:22)
 
Value Collector said:
Except your own private deist religion that you have discussed in the passed.
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There is no religion or theology in my belief, I make no claim to be in contact with any higher Being or to know what he wants of me so I'm not about to go on any killing rampages for the sake of my beliefs.
 
SirRumpole said:
There is no religion or theology in my belief, I make no claim to be in contact with any higher Being or to know what he wants of me so I'm not about to go on any killing rampages for the sake of my beliefs.
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Didn't you say you believed a god existed, and he controlled an afterlife and based on whether your actions were good or bad he would let you in. No doubt you have other beliefs attached to that about what he thinks is good and what he would think is bad etc, that's a religion.

Most people with your style of belief wouldn't go on a killing spree, however it is possible if you developed a mental illness and started believing you God was talking to you, that happens a fair bit. People with personal gods such as yours have killed themselves, their children, pets, family and others.
 
Value Collector said:
Didn't you say you believed a god existed, and he controlled an afterlife and based on whether your actions were good or bad he would let you in. No doubt you have other beliefs attached to that about what he thinks is good and what he would think is bad etc, that's a religion.
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I don't believe I ever said that.

I think everyone has an afterlife, probably a whole succession of lives that form a learning experience just like life on earth is.

Most people with your style of belief wouldn't go on a killing spree, however it is possible if you developed a mental illness and started believing you God was talking to you, that happens a fair bit. People with personal gods such as yours have killed themselves, their children, pets, family and others.
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Now you are getting into the realms of fantasy.

I would say the situation you mentioned would be balanced by atheists killing themselves, children, pets, family when they go bonkers and decide that their life has no meaning .
 
SirRumpole said:
I don't believe I ever said that.

I think everyone has an afterlife, probably a whole succession of lives that form a learning experience just like life on earth is.
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Either way, that's a religious belief.

Anyway, not trying to beat up on you, just pointing out that when you say you are interested in any religion, what you mean is any other religion outside your personal one.
 
Tisme said:
Why do you continue to harp on irrelevances to the Christian religion? You need to read Romans.
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Actually when I mentioned that I was comparing the Koran to the bible, didn't mention Christians till later.

What part of Romans? Does Jesus reverse his statement he made in the serman on the mount where he said none of the laws will change until heaven and earth disappear?

It's Christians that bang on about the Ten Commandments, which is from the same book as the one mentioning all the laws the ignore eg no eating bacon, killing etc
 
Value Collector said:
Either way, that's a religious belief.

Anyway, not trying to beat up on you, just pointing out that when you say you are interested in any religion, what you mean is any other religion outside your personal one.
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Religions require laws , rules , commandments, teachings etc. My beliefs have none of those so they are not a religion.
 
Value Collector said:
Nope a religion is just a belief in or worship of a controlling power.
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You have your definition and I have mine.

Religion involves a power structure Priests & Imams leading their flock, my beliefs don't involve anything like that.

Methinks you are trying to deflect the discussion away from the cancer that is Islam, its control of its slaves and its desire to convert everyone else to its own beliefs. That's the problem here not my personal beliefs which have no theology and which I'm not trying to push on anyone else.
 
Value Collector said:
Actually when I mentioned that I was comparing the Koran to the bible, didn't mention Christians till later.

What part of Romans? Does Jesus reverse his statement he made in the serman on the mount where he said none of the laws will change until heaven and earth disappear?

It's Christians that bang on about the Ten Commandments, which is from the same book as the one mentioning all the laws the ignore eg no eating bacon, killing etc
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If you had ever taken notice of Sunday School and your confirmation needs you would know about how Jesus topped himself for the sins of us mere mortals. Part of that sacrifice was to embody and personify deuteronomy so it could be dealt with by the top brass leaving us ground dwellers free of its Mosaic constraint. Romans and Paul the Apostle deal with and explain it's defunct but has historical merit.


There is a reasons(s) for the word "new" in New Testament.
 
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