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pavilion103 said:
What an absolute load of shyte.
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You claim to be well versed in the proof of the historicity of Jesus. Perhaps you could address the 5 points made and show why they are a load of shyte? That will give us an opportunity to compare arguments.
 
Lost Early Christian ‘Gospel’ Has Apparently Been Rediscovered

http://guardianlv.com/2014/09/lost-early-christian-gospel-has-apparently-been-rediscovered/

What seems to be most noteworthy about the Didache is that in there is nothing that relates to the Apostle Paul’s Gospel. There is no record of atonement through Jesus’ blood and body and no reference to Jesus’ resurrection. In the Didache, it does talk about how Jesus was the one who carried the knowledge of both faith and life but there was never any importance placed upon the figure of Jesus apart from the message he gave. Forgiveness of a person’s sins in the Didache appeared to come from a consecrated life and doing good deeds for others.
 
Why I Think Jesus Didn't Exist: A Historian Explains the Evidence That Changed His Mind


 
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I had posted this in another thread, just showing how much the Christian Churches had contributed through the years throughout History.

Being a Catholic, I have revolved around that Church.

 
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Value Collector: Is Islam inherently evil thread said:
This is not the thread for it, but I would like to hear you explain why you believe your mind will survive the death of your brain, perhaps the religion and science thread.

Also, do all of the 10,000,000 species of animals have an after life, or just humans? or just the animals with conscious brains? or just apes? and if its just the animals with brains, how does the consciousness survive outside the brain?

so many questions, I would like to discuss.
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If I knew the answers as to "how" these things happen, believe me I would have departed this veil of tears long ago.

Some time ago I saw a BBC documentary on life after death, which presented the story of George Rodonaia, an atheist Russian scientist who was run over by a car and was declared dead and put in a freezer for three days waiting for autopsy. During this time he travelled out of his body to another hospital where the wife of a friend of his had a baby. The child couldn't stop crying. Rodonaia says he was able to communicate with the child and found it had a broken hip.

When the doctors started to do the autopsy on Rodonaia they saw his eyes respond to light and revived him. He told his friend what was wrong with his child and the doctors confirmed this and fixed the child up. Unless Rodonaia went walkabout during the three days and then climbed back into the freezer, he could not have come about this information by physical means.

He tells the story here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5APwnghwDg

He later moved to the US and became a priest.

The late Peter Brock said several times that when engaged in a motor race he sometimes floated out of his body and looked down on his car racing around the track, which if true indicates that we have a consciousness that can be seperated from our physical bodies.

Of course, the cynics will say that these stories are anecdotal, but I see no reason for either of these people to lie, and in Rodonaia's case at least his account of the child's injuries were confirmed by others.
 
SirRumpole said:
If I knew the answers as to "how" these things happen, believe me I would have departed this veil of tears long ago.

Some time ago I saw a BBC documentary on life after death, which presented the story of George Rodonaia, an atheist Russian scientist who was run over by a car and was declared dead and put in a freezer for three days waiting for autopsy. During this time he travelled out of his body to another hospital where the wife of a friend of his had a baby. The child couldn't stop crying. Rodonaia says he was able to communicate with the child and found it had a broken hip.

When the doctors started to do the autopsy on Rodonaia they saw his eyes respond to light and revived him. He told his friend what was wrong with his child and the doctors confirmed this and fixed the child up. Unless Rodonaia went walkabout during the three days and then climbed back into the freezer, he could not have come about this information by physical means.

He tells the story here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5APwnghwDg

He later moved to the US and became a priest.

The late Peter Brock said several times that when engaged in a motor race he sometimes floated out of his body and looked down on his car racing around the track, which if true indicates that we have a consciousness that can be seperated from our physical bodies.

Of course, the cynics will say that these stories are anecdotal, but I see no reason for either of these people to lie, and in Rodonaia's case at least his account of the child's injuries were confirmed by others.
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Something that strikes me as particularly odd is that he then became a priest. What was it about his experience that lead him specifically to Christianity, as opposed to any other (or no formal) religion? In my mind it makes the story much less credible, and much more likely to be 'born again Christian' propaganda.
 
SirRumpole said:
Some time ago I saw a BBC documentary on life after death, which presented the story of George Rodonaia, an atheist Russian scientist who was run over by a car and was declared dead and put in a freezer for three days waiting for autopsy. During this time he travelled out of his body to another hospital where the wife of a friend of his had a baby. The child couldn't stop crying. Rodonaia says he was able to communicate with the child and found it had a broken hip.

.
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Ok, firstly I must admit, this story stinks of religious propaganda, and I can't help thinking you must have had some preexisting belief in the after before watching this, and this just reinforced those. Because I can show you videos of people who seem just as sincere claiming every thing from seeing Bigfoot, being probed by aliens or being psychic and i bet you don't automatically start believing.

Also if this is a real thing, why is he appearing on a cheap late night documentary, I mean if some one comes back to life after three days in a freezer, they would make history, and be written about in medical journals, where is the documented evidence proving he was dead for three days? I mean if we are discussing life after death, we need evidence he was dead.

And why is it only a strange isolated case from 1970's Russia we are hearing about, if this was a real thing that happens, out of 7billion people, surely we would see it happening more often.


The late Peter Brock said several times that when engaged in a motor race he sometimes floated out of his body and looked down on his car racing around the track, which if true indicates that we have a consciousness that can be seperated from our physical bodies
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Do you have any quotes of him making these claims?

Are you sure he wasn't meaning it metaphorically?

These two examples you give are quite weak, as I said, if it were any other topic you wouldn't believe, you must have wanted to believe something from the start.

Of course, the cynics will say that these stories are anecdotal, but I see no reason for either of these people to lie
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Well he could have been paid, or people can just be mistaken, not everyone thats wrong is a lier, a lot are just mistaken.

Eg, picture you I and walking down a road, we see black dog in the distance run out and get hit by a car and then land in the gutter, we are both shocked and look at each other and confirm we saw a dog get hit by a car, and for years will tell the story of the day we saw a dog get hit by a car, however in reality, we were not close enough to see, that what we thought was a dog, was actually a black garbage bag that blew into the street and got hit by a car, and no dog was really hit.

If pressed, we might say, "why would i lie" but really we were mistaken all along.
 
With over 50,000,000 people dying each year, why do we not hear more of this life after death experiences,

Why could that guy seem to communicate with a baby, but not communicate with the adults in his story,?

Why are people that attend the thousands of funerals every day not being contacted by the dead? because if i had a life after my death and could communicate with the living like that guy suggested, I would surely be making a speech at my funeral.

All these stories are anecdotal, where is the real evidence.
 
Tink said:
I had posted this in another thread, just showing how much the Christian Churches had contributed through the years throughout History.

Being a Catholic, I have revolved around that Church.

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Lol, nice try Catholics.

They left out the crusades, the inquisitions, the burning of innocent women as witches, the torturing and killing of non believers, the covering up of pedophilia, telling people in aids ridden Africa that condoms are immoral and many, many more horrible things.
 
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Value Collector said:
Do you have any quotes of him making these claims?
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I saw it in an interview once, if I find it I'll post it.

Value Collector said:
With over 50,000,000 people dying each year, why do we not hear more of this life after death experiences,
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Plenty of people have had near death experiences but you haven't bothered searching for the evidence.

Value Collector said:
All these stories are anecdotal, where is the real evidence.
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What evidence do you want ?

Death of someone else, for those remaining is the same as someone you know being out of contact on the ocean. You just don't know what has happened to them, they may have reached an island or sunk in the ocean. You may hear from them sometime or you may not. There are some things that you just can't prove either way.

In any case, we will all find the truth one day. What we choose to believe in the meantime is irrelevant.
 
SirRumpole said:
Plenty of people have had near death experiences but you haven't bothered searching for the evidence.
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I have actually done quite a bit of reading on near death experiences, and there is no evidence that suggests they are anything other than a dream state, inside a brain that is malfunctioning and shutting down.

I had a dream a few weeks ago where Scarlet Johansson and I got intimate, Do you think that while I was asleep, My mind actually left my body, travelled round the world and had sex with Scarlet, off course not, its a dream, a person who is unconscious and dying can have vivid wild brain activity in the final stages, this is the most likely cause for those experiences.


What evidence do you want ?
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If we truly have a consciousness after death, I would like a lot more examples of people communicating after their death, eg. patients regularly having conversations with doctors after they die, murder victims providing evidence in court etc, I have been with a few people when they died, none of them ever spoke to me afterwards.

Death of someone else, for those remaining is the same as someone you know being out of contact on the ocean. You just don't know what has happened to them, they may have reached an island or sunk in the ocean. You may hear from them sometime or you may not
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Or their brain may have stopped functioning and now they don't exist.

There are some things that you just can't prove either way.
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Yes, like bigfoot, aliens probing red necks, fairies, unicorns but we don't believe that stuff.

And we can test people who claim to have out of body experiences, the James Randi foundation setup a test and offered a $1,000,000 prize, in years none of the people were able to pass the test.
 
Value Collector said:
I have actually done quite a bit of reading on near death experiences, and there is no evidence that suggests they are anything other than a dream state, inside a brain that is malfunctioning and shutting down.

I had a dream a few weeks ago where Scarlet Johansson and I got intimate, Do you think that while I was asleep, My mind actually left my body, travelled round the world and had sex with Scarlet, off course not, its a dream, a person who is unconscious and dying can have vivid wild brain activity in the final stages, this is the most likely cause for those experiences.




If we truly have a consciousness after death, I would like a lot more examples of people communicating after their death, eg. patients regularly having conversations with doctors after they die, murder victims providing evidence in court etc, I have been with a few people when they died, none of them ever spoke to me afterwards.

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Or their brain may have stopped functioning and now they don't exist.



Yes, like bigfoot, aliens probing red necks, fairies, unicorns but we don't believe that stuff.

And we can test people who claim to have out of body experiences, the James Randi foundation setup a test and offered a $1,000,000 prize, in years none of the people were able to pass the test.
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Now you are getting inanely trivial.

Believe what you want, I don't give a stuff.
 
SirRumpole said:
Now you are getting inanely trivial.

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Trivial???

All I have done is try and point out that these anecdotal stories of near death experiences can be explained by brain function, and don't actually prove there is a life after death.

Believe what you want, I don't give a stuff
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It's not about believing what I want to believe, It's about believing what is true.

Do you care if your beliefs are true?

If you care that they are true, shouldn't you require more proof than a few anecdotal stories?
 
Do you care if your beliefs are true?
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It would be nice to be able to prove beliefs but as I said there are things that cannot be proved one way or the other, so it comes down to belief.

If you seek absolute evidence for life after death then you are going to be disappointed. As I also said before what we believe is irrelevant because we will all die and we will then find out the truth.

I'm fascinated by your apparent need to refute the possibility of an afterlife. Why does it matter so much to you that people not believe in life after death ? What others believe about this subject does not influence how you live your life one iota so the argument although interesting, is irrelevant.
 
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