I can partly agree with you about the mind getting silenced. But I would explain it differently. If I do something good for someone else right now, and it's inconvenient for me , it's somewhat of a blow to the 'flesh' , but also tends to make one feel more ordered within. However there is certainly more to it than just trying to be a good person or following rules. These things alone might be drudgery for a person. “Peace I leave with you; my peace I give to you. Not as the world gives do I give to you. ” (Christ). So to the Christians it is something divine as well, and better than what the world can offer.
Religion, Science, Scepticism, Philosophy and things metaphysical
- Thread starter bellenuit
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I can partly agree with you about the mind getting silenced. But I would explain it differently. If I do something good for someone else right now, and it's inconvenient for me , it's somewhat of a blow to the 'flesh' , but also tends to make one feel more ordered within. However there is certainly more to it than just trying to be a good person or following rules. These things alone might be drudgery for a person. “Peace I leave with you; my peace I give to you. Not as the world gives do I give to you. ” (Christ). So to the Christians it is something divine as well, and better than what the world can offer.
Value Collector
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Yet even with his great mind, he still never found any real evidence for it.
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I wouldn't want to put myself through drudgery to help others. Self-flagellation is based upon misunderstanding, imho.
I've met some very dreary and unhappy people who give all their time to volunteering when they should be helping themselves. The underlying belief is that by grinding away in charity work (in the name of God) they will win some big prize after they die. I could never agree with that.
It's more about moral duty rather than beating oneself down. It can be challenging, since our nature (that deformed nature we spoke of) doesn't like it, while our conscience seems to instruct us to perform certain acts. I believe Christian 'perfection' (something the apostles wrote about, similar to what you have mentioned), would be doing all these things, but with ease (it wouldn't be a burden). In turn a person would be completely free from those desires which destroy our quality of life, and make us 'slaves' to everything around us. Paul wrote a fair bit about all these things. Based on the scriptures, our belief is that these problems (human nature) came to us in the beginning along with death after the transgression...Then Adam felt fear and the need to wear clothing for the first time...
On a practical level , I believe that having this peace does bring benefits . For example, if a person needs to lose weight, it won't be a problem for someone who is mortified. Or if they have addictions, these tend to drop off. But this isn't everybody, and most Christians do not practice what they follow.
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Yes fear and shame are the root of all evil, and these are a by-product of duality (in the non-dual traditions). I tend to think all religions are talking about the same thing. At the beginner level, these perspectives look totally different - enough to wage wars over. But these perspectives converge the further you progress on the path. eg. what you refer to as 'mortification' I'd refer to as earnestness or dedication. And I'd agree that dedication makes certain things easier.
I re-read that Bernadette article because I hadn't read it in ages. Man, she went through some ****! Left me thinking ..."where's the love?". It's not a path I'd pursue myself, but it makes for fascinating reading.
“Put yourselves on the ways of long ago and enquire about the ancient paths: which was the good way? Take it then, and you shall find rest. “(Jer)
“Your will is my portion for ever., For in it my heart finds joy “ (ps)
rest...joy...just some verses about that freedom... Not from letting go of the mind, just following morals. Rather than a set of rules, followers of Christianity see it as living the way they're meant to, and becoming what they're meant to become.
I'll want to explore that link a bit as I'm interested...
Mortified includes feeling and having a greater sense of self control and command of oneself. Something I learned is that all these things such as peace, self control, patience, even spiritual wisdom all show up together in a similar measure, as do their opposites.
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“Tradition means giving a vote to most obscure of all classes, our ancestors. It is the democracy of the dead.”
-- G.K. Chesterton
-- G.K. Chesterton
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Why I think Islam is dangerous.
Islam is a religion with over a billion followers who are in general peace loving people who follow a belief system that they hold dear. So how is it dangerous?
Firstly, to whom is it not dangerous? It is not dangerous to the vast majority of Muslims who profess their faith in Allah and submit to his will. It is not dangerous to people in non-Islamic states who do not conform to the teachings of Allah and who have secular law to protect them, so long as those laws remain in place.
But It is highly dangerous to those living in Islamic states who do not submit to the will of Allah. People who reject Islam and either change religion or become atheists (apostates). People who were brought up in other religions. People whose sexual identity is different to the standard male/female identity. Women in particular who are Muslim but do not accept the suppression that they must live under, whether it relates to choice of husband, divorce law, manner of dress etc.
The issue with stating that "Islam is a dangerous religion" is in the conflating of extreme elements of Islam and terrorist groups with a religion lived by 1.2 billion people.
I have never defended the rise of extreme Islamic sects. There are a danger to the world and a real menace to the moderate Islamic countries they are trying to undermine. But equating these elements with with the the beliefs of millions of people who completely disown them is wrong in every way.
We don't attempt to define the Jewish faith or Christianity by the extreme views of sects that use the cover of these religions to justify hate and vengeance. And there are enough of them to cause concern.
There is a good analysis of what extremist Islam groups look like and in particular the clear differentiation to Islamic teaching in Wikipedia.
You are deliberately ignoring what I wrote. I specifically excluded terrorist groups and concentrated on states that operate either fully or predominantly under Islamic law. This is what I wrote: These are all Islamic states whose laws are based on Islam. We are not talking about ISIS, but nation states whose laws are barbaric in every sense of the world.
On a practical level I ask what sort of society would we have if Islam and it's believers were all treated as dangerous people ? Were the people who were murdered in Christchurch extremists ? Should our neighbors and friends, workmates and students , be seen as "dangerous " and treated as such ? What does such a society look like ?
You again ignore what I wrote in relation to its believers. This is what I wrote: I am talking Islam the religion, not Muslims the people.
Australia has rules of behaviour around tolerance, respect , freedom of religion and abiding by the laws of our country. So we don't and shouldn't accept the discrimination that Bellenuit points out is a hallmark of countries governed by extreme Islamic groups. And these views are unacceptable in Australia because they attack the hallmarks of tolerance and respect we offer every citizen.
But this is where you completely miss the point. Most of the countries that I listed are not governed by extreme Islamic groups, but are nation states. These, apart from moderate Indonesia, are where the vast majority of Muslims live, and most of these states, if not all, are UN members, are represented in various UN bodies and are nations that we trade with on a regular basis. Unlike Australia, these Islamic states do not have rules of behaviour around tolerance, respect and freedom of religion that we have here in Australia.
That is why it is dangerous for those groups I have identified (as well as many others) to live there. It is secular law that protects us in the West from the extremes of any religious intolerance. But what we regard as secular law is extremely limited or non-existent in these countries. Islamic Law takes precedence mostly.
When the Christian woman who brought water to her fellow Muslim workmates was charged with blasphemy and sentenced to death for doing so, it was the limited secular law in Pakistan that freed her. But there were still shouts from the Mullahs for her to be put to death - on the basis that Islamic Law demands it.
If you think somehow that the Islamic states, which make up the majority of countries in which Muslims live, are misinterpreting Islam and most Muslims disagree with those strict laws, you might want to read some thorough research done by the very respected Pew Research. A snapshot of figures from 2 relatively moderate predominantly Muslim countries; Turkey and Indonesia; and one more extreme; Pakistan.
This survey relates to Muslims only living in those countries. In relation to Sharia Law (which according to certain Hadith texts prescribes the death penalty for Atheism, Homosexuality and Apostacy):
That Sharia Law is the revealed word of God; Turkey 49%, Indonesia 54% and Pakistan 81%.
That Sharia should be the law of the land; Turkey 12%, Indonesia 72% and Pakistan 84%
% among those who believe it should be the law of the land, that Sharia Law should apply to non-Muslims as well as Muslims; Turkey 43%, Indonesia 50% and Pakistan 34%
% among those who believe that Sharia should be the law of the land, that favour stoning as a punishment for Adultery; Turkey 29%, Indonesia 48% and Pakistan 89%
% among those who believe that Sharia should be the law of the land, that favour the death penalty as a punishment for Apostasy; Turkey 17%, Indonesia 18% and Pakistan 76%
So taking Indonesia as an example, we see that 72% of Muslims think Sharia should be the law of the land and of those 48% think adulterers should be stoned to death. That is 34% of Indonesian Muslims.
For Pakistan, 84% believe Sharia should be the law of the land and of those 76% believe apostates should be put to death. That means 64% of all Pakistan muslims believe apostates should be put to death.
You can see the full research here: http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/...ligion-politics-society-beliefs-about-sharia/
So not only are we talking about mainstream Islamic states and not the extremists, but the laws that are such a danger to those who do not conform have substantial support among the Muslims living there.
I think it will for ever be a shame of the righteous Left in the West that they ignored the plight of those living under Islam that either by choice or by accident of birth do not conform to the rules prescribed by Islam. Ex-Muslims who understand full well what is happening in Islamic states are being shouted down when the try to talk or show support for those being oppressed. The word Islamaphobia is used as a weapon to silence those with influence who have taken the time to understand Islam and speak out against its shameful oppression of certain groups. Their blind identity politics can only see white males as oppressors and anyone else by definition couldn't be so, so they gladly align with some of the most oppressive regimes in the world.
Islam is a religion with over a billion followers who are in general peace loving people who follow a belief system that they hold dear. So how is it dangerous?
Firstly, to whom is it not dangerous? It is not dangerous to the vast majority of Muslims who profess their faith in Allah and submit to his will. It is not dangerous to people in non-Islamic states who do not conform to the teachings of Allah and who have secular law to protect them, so long as those laws remain in place.
But It is highly dangerous to those living in Islamic states who do not submit to the will of Allah. People who reject Islam and either change religion or become atheists (apostates). People who were brought up in other religions. People whose sexual identity is different to the standard male/female identity. Women in particular who are Muslim but do not accept the suppression that they must live under, whether it relates to choice of husband, divorce law, manner of dress etc.
The issue with stating that "Islam is a dangerous religion" is in the conflating of extreme elements of Islam and terrorist groups with a religion lived by 1.2 billion people.
I have never defended the rise of extreme Islamic sects. There are a danger to the world and a real menace to the moderate Islamic countries they are trying to undermine. But equating these elements with with the the beliefs of millions of people who completely disown them is wrong in every way.
We don't attempt to define the Jewish faith or Christianity by the extreme views of sects that use the cover of these religions to justify hate and vengeance. And there are enough of them to cause concern.
There is a good analysis of what extremist Islam groups look like and in particular the clear differentiation to Islamic teaching in Wikipedia.
You are deliberately ignoring what I wrote. I specifically excluded terrorist groups and concentrated on states that operate either fully or predominantly under Islamic law. This is what I wrote: These are all Islamic states whose laws are based on Islam. We are not talking about ISIS, but nation states whose laws are barbaric in every sense of the world.
On a practical level I ask what sort of society would we have if Islam and it's believers were all treated as dangerous people ? Were the people who were murdered in Christchurch extremists ? Should our neighbors and friends, workmates and students , be seen as "dangerous " and treated as such ? What does such a society look like ?
You again ignore what I wrote in relation to its believers. This is what I wrote: I am talking Islam the religion, not Muslims the people.
Australia has rules of behaviour around tolerance, respect , freedom of religion and abiding by the laws of our country. So we don't and shouldn't accept the discrimination that Bellenuit points out is a hallmark of countries governed by extreme Islamic groups. And these views are unacceptable in Australia because they attack the hallmarks of tolerance and respect we offer every citizen.
But this is where you completely miss the point. Most of the countries that I listed are not governed by extreme Islamic groups, but are nation states. These, apart from moderate Indonesia, are where the vast majority of Muslims live, and most of these states, if not all, are UN members, are represented in various UN bodies and are nations that we trade with on a regular basis. Unlike Australia, these Islamic states do not have rules of behaviour around tolerance, respect and freedom of religion that we have here in Australia.
That is why it is dangerous for those groups I have identified (as well as many others) to live there. It is secular law that protects us in the West from the extremes of any religious intolerance. But what we regard as secular law is extremely limited or non-existent in these countries. Islamic Law takes precedence mostly.
When the Christian woman who brought water to her fellow Muslim workmates was charged with blasphemy and sentenced to death for doing so, it was the limited secular law in Pakistan that freed her. But there were still shouts from the Mullahs for her to be put to death - on the basis that Islamic Law demands it.
If you think somehow that the Islamic states, which make up the majority of countries in which Muslims live, are misinterpreting Islam and most Muslims disagree with those strict laws, you might want to read some thorough research done by the very respected Pew Research. A snapshot of figures from 2 relatively moderate predominantly Muslim countries; Turkey and Indonesia; and one more extreme; Pakistan.
This survey relates to Muslims only living in those countries. In relation to Sharia Law (which according to certain Hadith texts prescribes the death penalty for Atheism, Homosexuality and Apostacy):
That Sharia Law is the revealed word of God; Turkey 49%, Indonesia 54% and Pakistan 81%.
That Sharia should be the law of the land; Turkey 12%, Indonesia 72% and Pakistan 84%
% among those who believe it should be the law of the land, that Sharia Law should apply to non-Muslims as well as Muslims; Turkey 43%, Indonesia 50% and Pakistan 34%
% among those who believe that Sharia should be the law of the land, that favour stoning as a punishment for Adultery; Turkey 29%, Indonesia 48% and Pakistan 89%
% among those who believe that Sharia should be the law of the land, that favour the death penalty as a punishment for Apostasy; Turkey 17%, Indonesia 18% and Pakistan 76%
So taking Indonesia as an example, we see that 72% of Muslims think Sharia should be the law of the land and of those 48% think adulterers should be stoned to death. That is 34% of Indonesian Muslims.
For Pakistan, 84% believe Sharia should be the law of the land and of those 76% believe apostates should be put to death. That means 64% of all Pakistan muslims believe apostates should be put to death.
You can see the full research here: http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/...ligion-politics-society-beliefs-about-sharia/
So not only are we talking about mainstream Islamic states and not the extremists, but the laws that are such a danger to those who do not conform have substantial support among the Muslims living there.
I think it will for ever be a shame of the righteous Left in the West that they ignored the plight of those living under Islam that either by choice or by accident of birth do not conform to the rules prescribed by Islam. Ex-Muslims who understand full well what is happening in Islamic states are being shouted down when the try to talk or show support for those being oppressed. The word Islamaphobia is used as a weapon to silence those with influence who have taken the time to understand Islam and speak out against its shameful oppression of certain groups. Their blind identity politics can only see white males as oppressors and anyone else by definition couldn't be so, so they gladly align with some of the most oppressive regimes in the world.
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Hello Brother,
I too join others in expressing remorse, sorrow and regret at this act. Intolerance, hate and mental disorders stoked by what is NOW accepted as free speech, is NOT who and what we are. That, being Australian, to our shame, our home bred person who went to our dearest friend, NEW ZEALAND and committed this act, is not who either we, as Australians are or New Zealand is.
Intolerance, hate, couched often in weasel words, is what it is. Despite being of a different faith, and possibly a different colour, god forbid, I was inspired by one act in the face of hate filled intolerance.
“Hello Brother”. A man, in Christchurch, a man, faced by a rage filled, hate filled maniac, greets a person whom he knows will and is going to kill him with two words. “Hello Brother”.
This man, a MAN OF FAITH, a man devoted to peace, in sheer display of acceptance and love. Without anger, without fear, greeted a man he knew would kill him with two words. Words of greeting, of compassion, with kindness. “Hello Brother” and his reward was three bullets, as he was executed.
This man, a man I wish I knew. A man of a different religion, set of beliefs, in his last moments showed what a pathetic monster and intolerant hate filled person one must be to commit this act.
In this good mans last moments, he displayed a level of faith, few could ever aspire to.
I wish for peace and tolerance and express my deep sympathies and disgust for this act whilst offering what I wish, was the power, that could take away the pain this man has caused to so many.
I too join others in expressing remorse, sorrow and regret at this act. Intolerance, hate and mental disorders stoked by what is NOW accepted as free speech, is NOT who and what we are. That, being Australian, to our shame, our home bred person who went to our dearest friend, NEW ZEALAND and committed this act, is not who either we, as Australians are or New Zealand is.
Intolerance, hate, couched often in weasel words, is what it is. Despite being of a different faith, and possibly a different colour, god forbid, I was inspired by one act in the face of hate filled intolerance.
“Hello Brother”. A man, in Christchurch, a man, faced by a rage filled, hate filled maniac, greets a person whom he knows will and is going to kill him with two words. “Hello Brother”.
This man, a MAN OF FAITH, a man devoted to peace, in sheer display of acceptance and love. Without anger, without fear, greeted a man he knew would kill him with two words. Words of greeting, of compassion, with kindness. “Hello Brother” and his reward was three bullets, as he was executed.
This man, a man I wish I knew. A man of a different religion, set of beliefs, in his last moments showed what a pathetic monster and intolerant hate filled person one must be to commit this act.
In this good mans last moments, he displayed a level of faith, few could ever aspire to.
I wish for peace and tolerance and express my deep sympathies and disgust for this act whilst offering what I wish, was the power, that could take away the pain this man has caused to so many.
Value Collector
Have courage, and be kind.
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Imagine if the reason he said “Hello brother” was because he mistook the gunman for a member of isis or other Islamic group which he sympathized with.
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Hello Brother,
I too join others in expressing remorse, sorrow and regret at this act. Intolerance, hate and mental disorders stoked by what is NOW accepted as free speech, is NOT who and what we are. That, being Australian, to our shame, our home bred person who went to our dearest friend, NEW ZEALAND and committed this act, is not who either we, as Australians are or New Zealand is.
Intolerance, hate, couched often in weasel words, is what it is. Despite being of a different faith, and possibly a different colour, god forbid, I was inspired by one act in the face of hate filled intolerance.
“Hello Brother”. A man, in Christchurch, a man, faced by a rage filled, hate filled maniac, greets a person whom he knows will and is going to kill him with two words. “Hello Brother”.
This man, a MAN OF FAITH, a man devoted to peace, in sheer display of acceptance and love. Without anger, without fear, greeted a man he knew would kill him with two words. Words of greeting, of compassion, with kindness. “Hello Brother” and his reward was three bullets, as he was executed.
This man, a man I wish I knew. A man of a different religion, set of beliefs, in his last moments showed what a pathetic monster and intolerant hate filled person one must be to commit this act.
In this good mans last moments, he displayed a level of faith, few could ever aspire to.
I wish for peace and tolerance and express my deep sympathies and disgust for this act whilst offering what I wish, was the power, that could take away the pain this man has caused to so many.
I too join others in expressing remorse, sorrow and regret at this act. Intolerance, hate and mental disorders stoked by what is NOW accepted as free speech, is NOT who and what we are. That, being Australian, to our shame, our home bred person who went to our dearest friend, NEW ZEALAND and committed this act, is not who either we, as Australians are or New Zealand is.
Intolerance, hate, couched often in weasel words, is what it is. Despite being of a different faith, and possibly a different colour, god forbid, I was inspired by one act in the face of hate filled intolerance.
“Hello Brother”. A man, in Christchurch, a man, faced by a rage filled, hate filled maniac, greets a person whom he knows will and is going to kill him with two words. “Hello Brother”.
This man, a MAN OF FAITH, a man devoted to peace, in sheer display of acceptance and love. Without anger, without fear, greeted a man he knew would kill him with two words. Words of greeting, of compassion, with kindness. “Hello Brother” and his reward was three bullets, as he was executed.
This man, a man I wish I knew. A man of a different religion, set of beliefs, in his last moments showed what a pathetic monster and intolerant hate filled person one must be to commit this act.
In this good mans last moments, he displayed a level of faith, few could ever aspire to.
I wish for peace and tolerance and express my deep sympathies and disgust for this act whilst offering what I wish, was the power, that could take away the pain this man has caused to so many.
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I think a better site for your views ...
Small Penis Syndrome
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A forum exclusively devoted to serious discussion of the intense emotions, shame and social complications associated with Small Penis Syndrome (SPS
http://www.mentalsupportcommunity.net/forum/30-small-penis-syndrome/
Small Penis Syndrome
Sign in to follow this
A forum exclusively devoted to serious discussion of the intense emotions, shame and social complications associated with Small Penis Syndrome (SPS
http://www.mentalsupportcommunity.net/forum/30-small-penis-syndrome/
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Bellenuit that was an interesting reference you offered on Pew Research into views of Muslims.
I thought the Executive Summary was a good look.
http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-exec/
I thought the Executive Summary was a good look.
http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-exec/
Which side are you an activist for?
If I wanted people to hate the left I'd post the stuff you are posting.
If I was on the delusional left side, then expected.
If its truly neither then I need to ask "Are you ok".
I tried to pm previously to keep it private, but I'm on your block list. Perhaps you are just passionate, maybe high strung. But I'd rather know before quoting you and ratcheting your levels up any further.
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Hmm ... humanity's side. No, no one blocked. Just agog at anti Islam stuff given recent events. On small penis, I am pro small for well evidenced reasons. That or use of a pill like Mifepristone which is free in America if your Black or Latino or white trash. All thanks to the Eugenics society and its benefactors ... the Gates Foundation and Warren Buffett. Strange world where someone with a medical issue is charged $600- for Insulin and an abortion, is free.
Such is life, on one hand disgusted, one hand agog, watching evil being spread. Its not as though I would ever go to a white supremacist site ... so I watch with disgust and horror at their drivel.
Is that plain enough ? I am neither left of right, just human.
Fair enough.
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Sadly my spy ware is able to turn some peoples cameras on ... who post on this thread .
Nice visit to the supermarket and I sadly say its not PG.
Nice visit to the supermarket and I sadly say its not PG.
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Kahuna I wanted to write and suggest you tone down the rhetoric. Again Like MoXjo I'm not sure where you are at.
Unfortunately your settings do not allow communication. Whether that is by accident or design only you know.
Take care
Unfortunately your settings do not allow communication. Whether that is by accident or design only you know.
Take care
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Ooh thanks for the advice.
I think this is more toned down, no naughty words.
A Geography Class for Racist People
13 million views ... speaks about Islam and it is educational in nature !!
I think this is more toned down, no naughty words.
A Geography Class for Racist People
13 million views ... speaks about Islam and it is educational in nature !!