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qldfrog said:
Dk, after living among mostly muslim migrants in housing estates in french suburbs as a pennyless student, i faced a world far different from my y12 leftist teachers description .i participated at the time to the "touche pas a mon pote"( so called anti racist ) movement, had grand ideas about mankind one world etc
The hatred,violence,disrespect of women and non muslim shocked me
So guess what DK i read the koran.not easy or funny or something i will do again , but i did
Very instructive
And another shock, at how mindless believer must be, on how as a non believer i should be killed directly
And my fellow christian are lucky to have a chance to convert..or die
A middle age backward code of life, similar totan army codecof conduct code well suited to the army hords it was written for initially, but now completely out of wack.
that is my conclusion after reading the book, and there is not much place for interpretation, so when did you read the book DK?
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Clutch in down a gear Frog. My exposure to Islam has been via a Muslim Sydney Elder who preached pretty much similiar to a Christian Pastor - love, tolerance etc etc. Then about nine months later he recounted a story of his Daughter being abused at some traffic lights. He then said he would've "killed" the thugs if he was there or if they touched her or something. He was a world level athlete in his youth, so I assume high Testosterone levels, not to mention from a war torn Country in his youth.
That compelled me to read bits and pieces of The Quran, not the whole lot.

As I've seen how people speak about Christians, being so far off the mark I'm skeptical about how bad The Quran is. That's why I'm pursuing the discussion.

I detest bullies and sociopaths and I'll stand shoulder to shoulder, back to back with anyone fighting such people, if in fact Muslims are that bad.

Just pursuing further knowledge on the topic Frog.
 
Darc Knight said:
Clutch in down a gear Frog. My exposure to Islam has been via a Muslim Sydney Elder who preached pretty much similiar to a Christian Pastor - love, tolerance etc etc. Then about nine months later he recounted a story of his Daughter being abused at some traffic lights. He then said he would've "killed" the thugs if he was there or if they touched her or something. He was a world level athlete in his youth, so I assume high Testosterone levels, not to mention from a war torn Country in his youth.
That compelled me to read bits and pieces of The Quran, not the whole lot.

As I've seen how people speak about Christians, being so far off the mark I'm skeptical about how bad The Quran is. That's why I'm pursuing the discussion.

I detest bullies and sociopaths and I'll stand shoulder to shoulder, back to back with anyone fighting such people, if in fact Muslims are that bad.

Just pursuing further knowledge on the topic Frog.
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I mentioned when extremists reach critical mass. If you want to study you go to places like Indonesia, Somalia, Nigeria, a whole host of arab nations and you can see the worst parts overtaking. Even the religious police in Iran.
Churches are burned and bombed regularly. Buddhist sites are destroyed.

Its nothing to do with hating religion. Its the acknowledgement that its not just a few on the fringes. Indonesia has become very devout to the point that politicians are afraid to act.

There are problems within the religion. But you don't instantly assume all Muslims are the enemy. Or their religion.
But if it looks suss you should be free to point it out.
 
Fair DK, i am a bit sensitive as i spent a year or so arguiing with @luutzu on that very subject.
Dozen of time i asked him: read the Koran before denouncing my view of islam.there are fundamental differences between your or mine migration and the islamic ones
You cannot have an opinion without reading it .but to no avail
i understand the trauma of history,family past etc but there was no point wasting everyone's time so he joined my ignored list .
sad as i believe that in adapting a more open view and at least getting informed, we would probably have shared a lot
We are after all migrants both of us.
If you also want to learn more, try to understand/,research what is happening with the current takeover of islam proselitism from the salafists and SA/qatar financed imams to the recent surge of turkish influence ergovan if i i spell it right.a few quotes of him on how they are taking over the west are interesting
Google reliable sources and you will find them...but maybe not in the Guardian :)
 
moXJO said:
I mentioned when extremists reach critical mass. If you want to study you go to places like Indonesia, Somalia, Nigeria, a whole host of arab nations and you can see the worst parts overtaking. Even the religious police in Iran.
Churches are burned and bombed regularly. Buddhist sites are destroyed.

Its nothing to do with hating religion. Its the acknowledgement that its not just a few on the fringes. Indonesia has become very devout to the point that politicians are afraid to act.

There are problems within the religion. But you don't instantly assume all Muslims are the enemy. Or their religion.
But if it looks suss you should be free to point it out.
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It has been ugly in Indonesia. Good story on ABC showing how communities can come together after these horrors.

Also has a sting in the tail about why communities can come into conflict.

Print Email Facebook Twitter More
Poso is still reeling from religious conflict, but a women's school is forging a path to peace
RN
By Nicole Curby for Earshot
Updated about an hour ago

10804424-3x2-700x467.jpg
Photo: After surviving a violent encounter, Martince is helping lead Poso's charge against hatred. (ABC RN: Nicole Curby)
Related Story: 'We have to forgive each other': Bali terrorists and victims come face-to-face
Related Story: Sulawesi attacks spark religious violence fears
Martince Baleona was living in the forest with her two infant children, eating nothing but leaves and plants, when she was intercepted by a group of armed men.

They demanded to know her religion.

She froze. The answer could cost her her life.

"In that moment, my only hope was for my children," Martince, now 48, says.

"I thought, if I say that I am Christian, maybe I'll be murdered. And if I say I'm Muslim, maybe I'll be murdered.

"So we kept quiet."
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-03...g-religious-divide-in-poco-indonesia/10825656
 
moXJO said:
Thai border cities were a hotbed last time I was there
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The Thai Malaysian border has had problems since 1948, but the violence escalated this century. It goes almost unreported in the West but since 2001 there have been about 500-600 killed each year and double that injured. Although it was originally an ethnic separatist insurgency (wanting autonomy from Thailand), it has in part being taken over by hard-line jihadists.
 
bellenuit said:
The Thai Malaysian border has had problems since 1948, but the violence escalated this century. It goes almost unreported in the West but since 2001 there have been about 500-600 killed each year and double that injured. Although it was originally an ethnic separatist insurgency (wanting autonomy from Thailand), it has in part being taken over by hard-line jihadists.
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I can tell you from first hand experience that the Thais don't mess around over there.
 
moXJO said:
I can tell you from first hand experience that the Thais don't mess around over there.
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But it can be quite over the top.

There was the incident about 10 years ago where demonstrating Muslim students were arrested near Patani and packed into an unventilated truck and driven to Phuket, I think, for trial. Dozens had died of asphyxiation by the time they arrived
 
Thai and burmese know history, they are basically the only non muslim countries in the area from the previous Buddhist region.
ask balinese or the giant Buddhas of afghanistan if islam is the religion of peace.
it is a survival fight, and the west should take note too, as for us, with Indonesia up north , i have no doubt who we will pray to in 200years, if still around
 
bellenuit said:
The Thai Malaysian border has had problems since 1948, but the violence escalated this century. It goes almost unreported in the West but since 2001 there have been about 500-600 killed each year and double that injured. Although it was originally an ethnic separatist insurgency (wanting autonomy from Thailand), it has in part being taken over by hard-line jihadists.
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That is racism. Obviously multiculturalism doesn't sit well with them. (facetious remark ;))
 
qldfrog said:
A middle age backward code of life, similar totan army codecof conduct code well suited to the army hords it was written for initially, but now completely out of wack.
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I hear you Frog. Foot to the floor, left hand down.
 
Wysiwyg said:
I hear you Frog. Foot to the floor, left hand down.
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Wysiwyg,
Have you read the Koran or still living in your nice flowery bubble?
Nothing to add, knowledge has been replaced by ideology.you are with the winners, but not your kids
 
kahuna1 said:
To be exact a person called Value Collector ... on the previous thread ...
Imagine if the reason he said “Hello brother” was because he mistook the gunman for a member of isis or other Islamic group which he sympathized with.

I would expect this not, from a country I love, nor my fellow Australians and in this I include NZ ... it is not and should not be tolerated, but, it is what it is.

Anger, revenge, hate will get you no where. Compassion, love and tolerance of some people being ill, lets me accept it without anger. Sadly they miss parts that make us human. Having faced violence, hate and people at their worst, Value collector and his fellows are the first to run, cry, beg, or urinate ... I say this with a capacity and background in dealing with violence that, is not based in anger.
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If you think I am racist or hateful against Muslims, I don’t think you have read many of my posts on this subject over the years.

While I am in general against religion I support religious freedom of indivuals and stand up for Muslims rights all the time on his site, I have supported them in many debates here, I am not against Islam any more than I am against any of the religions.

My comment seems to have wound you up a bit, I am honestly unsure why, I was simply pointing out a possibility (even though an unlikely one), the truth is none of us know what went through the guys head, we are just guessing, I was just pointing this fact in my own way.
 
Darc Knight said:
OK, good start :)

Everyone has an interpretation of The Bible .The Quran and Harry Potter. It's ludicrous.
You can't rely on YouTube, TV, Radio, or anyone else really, particularly in this era. Everyone spins it. Look at ISIS, look at nutters doing atrocities in the name of Christianity.
I'll post how you interpret legal statutes when I have time, it's a good guide to interpretation of these things.
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Hence if an all powerful god existed, I doubt he would write a book that needed to be constantly translated into new languages as old languages died.

The fact that “holy books” exist, is an arguement against the existence of a god in my opinion.
 
Value Collector said:
Hence if an all powerful god existed, I doubt he would write a book that needed to be constantly translated into new languages as old languages died.

The fact that “holy books” exist, is an arguement against the existence of a god in my opinion.
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Not really. It's an argument against the God man created, but God may be something else entirely, different in every way to the God of the Bible, Koran etc.

Who knows?
 
Value Collector said:
Hence if an all powerful god existed, I doubt he would write a book that needed to be constantly translated into new languages as old languages died.

The fact that “holy books” exist, is an arguement against the existence of a god in my opinion.
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You couldn't get a bite out Kahuana this morning now you're trying me hey. Heck I'll bite. Firstly, I don't believe in God, Jesus, Allah or the Lochness Monster. My issue is with people attacking good loving charitable defenseless people like true Christians. Coz if you live according to the New Testament that's the kind of person you become.

Even though you continually attack these good people, true Christians will still turn the other cheek and forgive you and love you VC. Pity you can't at least try to be similiar to them, rather than pursuing your agenda.
 
Hello Brother,

Peace to all. We each have views, beliefs and ideals. My own, I thank others for pointing out, is unusual. Whilst I should know this, being made an ambassador of a site that helps people with 100,000 members was a surprise for me. In ones life, we all experience ups and downs.

We all read and listen to things. We are shaped by our experiences and often its the case, unless it happens to you, its to be ignored and at times feared.

I again thank others, for their input and honesty, which helped me better understand our differences.

Take care on your journeys and whilst one thinks I am angry or right or left wing, its actually the case neither is true.

PS if someone is calling me names or whatever, that too is fine. Or that my view offended them, or my distaste for theirs, so be it. It is what it is.

Mark K
 
Darc Knight said:
You couldn't get a bite out Kahuana this morning now you're trying me hey. Heck I'll bite. Firstly, I don't believe in God, Jesus, Allah or the Lochness Monster. My issue is with people attacking good loving charitable defenseless people like true Christians. Coz if you live according to the New Testament that's the kind of person you become.

Even though you continually attack these good people, true Christians will still turn the other cheek and forgive you and love you VC. Pity you can't at least try to be similiar to them, rather than pursuing your agenda.
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I didn’t try to get a bite from kahuna, lindysf left a note on my profile saying I had upset kahuna, so I came back on the thread to explain myself a bit better, before the note left on my profile I had no idea kahuna had mentioned me, he never actually quoted me so I didn’t get notified.

I have never attacked good charitable defenseless people.

I simply said it’s wrong to say all Christians are good charitable people, and it’s especially wrong to use the no true Scotsman fallacy to try and prove they are.

Remember not all Christians follow your interpretation of the NT, and simply saying if they don’t have your interpretation then they can’t be “true Christians” is a fallacy.
 
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