Religion, Science, Scepticism, Philosophy and things metaphysical

[Value Collector]

There may very well be a correlation in poor school performance with the type of people we are becoming.

or the type of people we came from, hence why I think its important to check or performance against ourselves rather than against others.

 

[SirRumpole]

I think a fair test would be to compare Australia with Australia over time, rather than against other nations, because thats what matters.

No it's not, as we live in a global economy. We are actually competing against other countries for jobs and industries so a global comparison is essential.

 

[luutzu]

Imagine if they took the parentally bullied homeworked asian students out of that equation...we'd be ranking outside the OECD parentheses.

The real reason the lessons aren't getting through is the extreme use of behavoural clamps on the teachers by policy and process...they are just drones who get pinged constantly for not following strangling pedagogy that is skewed to covering their principal's arse with rules on social justice, gender fluidity, KPI's, and crepe paper children.

The rising fascist nature of school teaching correlates with the reduction in males at the blackboard. Women are creatures of rules and eventually they strangle organisations because of excess access to policy.

Don't you have a daughter who's a teacher?

She might not be impressed hearing that form her old man.

 

[Value Collector]

No it's not, as we live in a global economy. We are actually competing against other countries for jobs and industries so a global comparison is essential.

Yes but if you are making claims such as you were alluding to claims that modern teachers are muppets or as graph was that modern Australians are some how becoming inferior, then a comparison against our past is best.

Comparisons against other nations is more for goal setting.

When it comes to investment in the global market place, there is a whole host of things that move the needle more so than simply school test results, eg stable political systems, tax rates, high rate of local investors willing to support projects etc.

a few percentage points on school tests isn't the be all and end all.

 

[luutzu]

Yes but if you are making claims such as you were alluding to claims that modern teachers are muppets or as graph was that modern Australians are some how becoming inferior, then a comparison against our past is best.

Comparisons against other nations is more for goal setting.

When it comes to investment in the global market place, there is a whole host of things that move the needle more so than simply school test results, eg stable political systems, tax rates, high rate of local investors willing to support projects etc.

a few percentage points on school tests isn't the be all and end all.

How are we doing on those other results?

I'm subscribed to this China channel on YT just to get some idea of what they're up to. Man, seems they finished one major construction project every couple of weeks.

Roads, bridges, high speed rail, tunnels... new roads and rails into Europe; financing and constructing more in the Caribbeans and Africa. New naval fleets, planning another couple aircraft carrier battle groups by 2020 or so.

They're even turning the entire northern border with Mongolia (back) into a forest. All across the top of China by some 149km deep... have been at it since the 70s but are accelerating the process. Redirecting fresh water from the South to the North, greening and reclaiming land from the desert.

Chinese stocks will soon be included in the MSCI so capital will start to flow into the middle kingdom a lot faster. The new Roads and Belt silk road...

I know they started from a low base, infrastructure wise... But their progress sure make ours look puny and snail paced.

 

[SirRumpole]

I know they started from a low base, infrastructure wise... But their progress sure make ours look puny and snail paced.

Problem is can they afford it in the long run ? They are deeply in debt but it probably doesn't matter to them because they have no intention of paying it back.

 

[luutzu]

Problem is can they afford it in the long run ? They are deeply in debt but it probably doesn't matter to them because they have no intention of paying it back.

I think they're a net lender rather than borrower. But not sure seeing how they also got onto that property bandwagon since the GFC.

I think they're applying that Keysian economic model of state investment, stimulus program, to put the plebs to work else they get bored and start a revolution.

Seems they're also borrowing the US/Western model of lending money to under-developed countries to "help" them build their infrastructure. The repayment terms are harsh and a good excuse to properly forced asset fire sales when the gov't doesn't see the sense in letting China park a few warships enroute its world tour and peace keeping missions.

They seriously have "peace keepers" all over Africa.

With debt... They're starting to get themselves, and their trading partners, off of US dollars and into the Yuan. I don't know much about these, but guessing that once enough partners, or countries being sanctioned by the West, join the Yuan to settle their trades... the USD as world currency reserves will be diminished.

There's pretty much a world war every century. This 21st one looks to be gathering pretty quickly.

 

[Value Collector]

They are deeply in debt

To who? foreign debt is very small, they are largely (as a country) self funded, and the debts are payable in their own currency, Not to mention they hold ship loads of USA Bonds.

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But as long as over all most of the infrastructure investments produce economic returns in excess of their cost, countries the spend big on infrastructure do well, even if they are funded by debt.

eg. If you can borrow long term long term at 5%, and build infrastructure that generates returns of say 10%, then the more you borrow the better you will do, borrowing $1 Trillion will make you ship loads of money.

 

[Value Collector]

There's pretty much a world war every century. This 21st one looks to be gathering pretty quickly.

We are past that, Trade beats war every time, and I am sure the Chinese understand that, Hence all their investments are to enable the speed of trade.

 

[SirRumpole]

To who? foreign debt is very small, they are largely (as a country) self funded, and the debts are payable in their own currency, Not to mention they hold ship loads of USA Bonds.

-----
But as long as over all most of the infrastructure investments produce economic returns in excess of their cost, countries the spend big on infrastructure do well, even if they are funded by debt.

eg. If you can borrow long term long term at 5%, and build infrastructure that generates returns of say 10%, then the more you borrow the better you will do, borrowing $1 Trillion will make you ship loads of money.

I wonder what the economic return on aircraft carriers and missile bases is.

 

[Tisme]

Don't you have a daughter who's a teacher?

She might not be impressed hearing that form her old man.

Not at all. My pedigree goes back to colonist days and teaching. Teachers these days are employed to be drones .... or else. Mine manages to garner exceptionally high class scores until the knives come out and she skips off to another school .... being in high demand there is always offers, three last week from principals trying to poach for next year.

Many teachers fear their permanency and super will be for zip if they don't double down and do as they are told by dept policy ....... kids are secondary consideration.

 

[luutzu]

Not at all. My pedigree goes back to colonist days and teaching. Teachers these days are employed to be drones .... or else. Mine manages to garner exceptionally high class scores until the knives come out and she skips off to another school .... being in high demand there is always offers, three last week from principals trying to poach for next year.

Many teachers fear their permanency and super will be for zip if they don't double down and do as they are told by dept policy ....... kids are secondary consideration.

Of course. It's always other people. We and our offspring are the exceptions.

Since it is departmental policy... doesn't the blame rest at those on high and not at the teachers' feet?

Teaching has always been aimed at droning on and on about useless stuff hasn't it? Indoctrinating eager young mind with approved truths and accepted apologies; learning things in the most boring of ways... all to remove the intelligent from the compliant idiot worthy of stable jobs and fancy things.

Just that, it seem, too many teachers aren't doing their jobs properly. Hence the testing and testing of students to further focus kids attention to what's important in life... and keeping teachers busy with test preps, less time for creative, personalised teachings, and union activities.

 

[SirRumpole]

Yes but if you are making claims such as you were alluding to claims that modern teachers are muppets or as graph was that modern Australians are some how becoming inferior, then a comparison against our past is best.

How can you possibly compare education now with education 20 years ago ? Technology has increased exponentially, it's not just 2+2 anymore. Trying to compare apples with oranges is futile.

 

[luutzu]

We are past that, Trade beats war every time, and I am sure the Chinese understand that, Hence all their investments are to enable the speed of trade.

Gunboat diplomacy is very much alive and kicking. Just that the focus is not direct confrontation between major/nuclear-powered states, but against their proxies, or would be proxies.

It also helps with trade talks, diplomacy and getting the other guy to switch sides if you got a few boats parked just over the horizon and a couple of brigades well fed but with nothing to do just next door.

There are "rumours" that Saddam and Qaddafi got taken out because, among other things, they were seriously considering getting off of the petro dollar and into Yuan. But that's just silly.

But imagine you're a dictator of a resource rich country and the Chinese comes to you with a higher bid. You of course wanted the money, but where's the protection, right?

I think that's why China has more success with their dictators in southern Africa - less French, NATO and US presence there.

China is being pretty damn clever, so far. They're buildings roads and trading ports. Rail and bridges... Then of course they'd have to send a few frigates along to protect the cargoes. And of course it's more convenient if those frigates and marines station strategically along key ports. etc. etc.

They're already offering the Thai generals free money to allow them to fund and build the long planned (when France and Britain rule the waves) Thai Canal.

Not only is that an alternate route that cut shipping and naval ships by a few days/weeks... it's telling the Singaporean that if they want to continue being that hub, might like to get back to their "Chinese" roots or else be isolated and lose those trillions of goods passing through the Thai each year.

 

[Value Collector]

I wonder what the economic return on aircraft carriers and missile bases is.

I did say as long as “most” produce an economic return, but also security assets deliver an economic return, in the same way police officers produce an economic return, whether it’s detering pirates from attacking cargo ships, or keeping terrorists away from a gas pipeline, investments in security can have good payoffs when it comes to loss prevention.

 

[luutzu]

Planned Chinese Railway networks across SE Asia.

 

[Tisme]

Gunboat diplomacy is very much alive and kicking. Just that the focus is not direct confrontation between major/nuclear-powered states, but against their proxies, or would be proxies.

It also helps with trade talks, diplomacy and getting the other guy to switch sides if you got a few boats parked just over the horizon and a couple of brigades well fed but with nothing to do just next door.

There are "rumours" that Saddam and Qaddafi got taken out because, among other things, they were seriously considering getting off of the petro dollar and into Yuan. But that's just silly.

But imagine you're a dictator of a resource rich country and the Chinese comes to you with a higher bid. You of course wanted the money, but where's the protection, right?

I think that's why China has more success with their dictators in southern Africa - less French, NATO and US presence there.

China is being pretty damn clever, so far. They're buildings roads and trading ports. Rail and bridges... Then of course they'd have to send a few frigates along to protect the cargoes. And of course it's more convenient if those frigates and marines station strategically along key ports. etc. etc.

They're already offering the Thai generals free money to allow them to fund and build the long planned (when France and Britain rule the waves) Thai Canal.

Not only is that an alternate route that cut shipping and naval ships by a few days/weeks... it's telling the Singaporean that if they want to continue being that hub, might like to get back to their "Chinese" roots or else be isolated and lose those trillions of goods passing through the Thai each year.

I don't see what is so clever. They are employing hachneyed empire building methods, which they, themselves, fell victim to and suffered for. You'd think they would avoid inflicting conflict on others given the miserable nation they are.

 

[luutzu]

I don't see what is so clever. They are employing hachneyed empire building methods, which they, themselves, fell victim to and suffered for. You'd think they would avoid inflicting conflict on others given the miserable nation they are.

Sharing the love?

btw, weren't England, and all of Europe, just filthy when they decided to civilised the world?

 

[explod]

"Imagine, with John Lennon, a world with no religion. Imagine no suicide bombers, no 9/11, no 7/7, no Crusades, no witch-hunts, no Gunpowder Plot, no Indian partition, no Israeli/Palestinian wars, no Serb/Croat/Muslim massacres, no persecution of Jews as 'Christ-killers, no Northern Ireland 'troubles', no 'honor killings', no shiny-suited bouffant-haired televangelists fleecing gullible people of their money ('God wants you to give till it hurts'). Imagine no Taliban to blow up ancient statues, no public beheadings of blasphemers, no flogging of female skin for the crime of showing an inch of it..."

from p.24 The God Delusion, Dawkins 2006.

And my plod words, imagine free education (teacher training), equal for all and if you want to be a soldier you have to pay to be trained and attend war to kill. Our guvmint got it the wrong way hey.

Well worth thinking about.... real freedom and democracy.

God does your thinking for you. An atheist thinks for itself.

 

[Tink]

The God delusion
or
The rage against God.