Religion, Science, Scepticism, Philosophy and things metaphysical

[cynic]

The simple reason my friends and acquaintances firmly believe is that they are convinced that they have encountered the power of the Holy Spirit, in its various forms. If that is true, then I would think that you would agree their religion is likely to be the correct one.


" ..My message and my preaching were not with persuasive words of wisdom, but with a demonstration of the Spirit's power, so that your faith would not rest on men's wisdom, but on God's..." (NT, Corinthians)
This verse makes it clear that all discussions, debates and so on are inferior to experiences of God's power (which isn't restricted to just miracles).

I might agree that, provided their claims are correct, their chosen religion is serving them well and could be considered a correct choice for themselves.

I believe that the passage you have quoted expresses a transcendant concept, rising above any of humankind's constructs.

Namely, that belief in truth ideally should be based upon the actuality of truth, rather than humanity's conceptions about what truth may or may not be.

 

[bellenuit]

That's irrelevant. I would think that you would agree with my previous statement. Your position would be that we are deluded, which is interesting for someone like me (and my acquaintances ) to consider

Deluded. Absolutely.

 

[bellenuit]

This is a classic example of how differing sets of beliefs can give rise to alternate interpretations of the same data!
I can see evidence of corroboration of symbolically expressed themes, you can see plagiarism and falsehood.

It is truly amazing how incredibly alike we are!

Each of us has allowed our personal religious convictions to influence our interpretation of the evidence!

Belief is not evidence.

 

[cynic]

Belief is not evidence.

Any expressed account (i.e. written, oral, semaphored, etc.) can be claimed as a form of evidence of that which was espoused.

 

[SirRumpole]

Any expressed account (i.e. written, oral, semaphored, etc.) can be claimed as a form of evidence of that which was espoused.

Most of the evidence was written, in the case of Jesus, about 50 years after his death.

As for the OT , God only knows who wrote that (tee hee).

 

[Wysiwyg]

But he was burn't for our transgressions,
he died to save humanity,
so our future might bring us peace,
and from his suffering we shall not destroy life.
noirua 1:1

Thou shalt amass great following via Facebook, Twitter and YouTube.

 

[Wysiwyg]

Deluded. Absolutely.

The word of choice to ward off nay sayers is 'blasphemer'. Take no prisoners. Ridiculous and imaginative claims are ridiculed in my books.

 

[Wysiwyg]

There is obviously a drive that keeps life reproducing. Does it really need an explanation?

 

[cynic]

There is obviously a drive that keeps life reproducing. Does it really need an explanation?

The answer would likely differ, depending who is asked.
I shall resist the temptation to present the sorts of crass answers one might anticipate from today's demographic.

The word of choice to ward off nay sayers is 'blasphemer'. Take no prisoners. Ridiculous and imaginative claims are ridiculed in my books.

A few decades ago, I met a young man who recounted to me an occasion when he had communicated with aliens.

He went on to say that, during those communications, a time and location had been agreed upon, for the aliens to collect him, taking him into their spacecraft, where he could then undergo an initiation.

Anyway, he ended his accounting to me, of the overall experience, by expressing his frustration at being "stood up" by them!

Despite him having waited patiently for several hours, at the appointed time and place, those dastardly aliens, never showed!

I didn't feel inclined to ridicule this person at the time. To the best of my recollection, the two main reasons for my abstention from mockery were:

(i) Whilst I strongly suspected this person's perceptions to be departures from reality, and likely the product of some form of hallucination, in the absence of rigorous proof one way or the other, the possibility of mendacious extraterrestials could not be conclusively excluded. So it seemed that granting the benefit of a miniscule sliver of doubt, was the fairer response.

(ii) The person clearly believed in his understanding (or lack thereof) of his experience, and would be unlikely to understand the reason he was being ridiculed, because, as far as he was concerned, he was simply speaking the truth.

 

[Wysiwyg]

(ii) The person clearly believed in his understanding (or lack thereof) of his experience, and would be unlikely to understand the reason he was being ridiculed, because, as far as he was concerned, he was simply speaking the truth.

The mind does not always work "In accordance with fact or reality". Cults have been developed using the mind's susceptibility to believe anything.

 

[Wysiwyg]

Just to add, the miracles of modern times were performed by Fred Hollows (restoring vision) and Graeme Milbourne Clark (restoring hearing).

 

[cynic]

The mind does not always work "In accordance with fact or reality". Cults have been developed using the mind's susceptibility to believe anything.

In your experience, who benefits from the ridiculing of those with the mental susceptibility to which you refer?

Just to add, the miracles of modern times were performed by Fred Hollows (restoring vision) and Graeme Milbourne Clark (restoring hearing).

Those might well be considered miracles.

Your choice of wording seems to imply that there were none other.

Was that your intention?

 

[Value Collector]

That's irrelevant. I would think that you would agree with my previous statement. Your position would be that we are deluded, which is interesting for someone like me (and my acquaintances ) to consider

All religions have people that make super natural claims.

There are people that claim they have seen big foot, is that evidence of big foot?

There are people that claim to have been abducted by aliens, is that evidence of aliens?

There are people that claim they have seen ghosts, is that evidence of ghosts?

There is people that claim to speak to the dead, is that evidence of physics?

 

[Value Collector]

Most of the evidence was written, in the case of Jesus, about 50 years after his death.

As for the OT , God only knows who wrote that (tee hee).

Actually a lot more than 50 years after.

 

[Value Collector]

There is obviously a drive that keeps life reproducing. Does it really need an explanation?

The only explanation is that those that didn’t have it died out.

Of course those that have some urge to reproduce do and those that don’t won’t.

But natural selection will obviously pass the genes along of those that have urges to reproduce, and we are all the product of an unbroken chain.

 

[Wysiwyg]

In your experience, who benefits from the ridiculing of those with the mental susceptibility to which you refer?

Depends on the sanity of the individual. Some contemplate their beliefs, some get angry their belief is questioned for fact, some raise their consciousness and return to using their senses and some just keep on believing.

Those might well be considered miracles.
Your choice of wording seems to imply that there were none other.
Was that your intention?

You're right. I could have included 'some of'.

 

[cynic]

All religions have people that make super natural claims.

There are people that claim they have seen big foot, is that evidence of big foot?

There are people that claim to have been abducted by aliens, is that evidence of aliens?

There are people that claim they have seen ghosts, is that evidence of ghosts?

There is people that claim to speak to the dead, is that evidence of physics?

I am sure you are already well aware of this particular type of evidence:
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/anecdotal-evidence

 

[cynic]

Depends on the sanity of the individual. Some contemplate their beliefs, some get angry their belief is questioned for fact, some raise their consciousness and return to using their senses and some just keep on believing.
...

I suppose another thing one might choose to consider, is that sometimes people are subconsciously seeking their own life lessons in order to catalyse the evolution of their consciousness. When somebody judges another's choices, as sufficiently lacking in wisdom, as to warrant intervention, there is the possibility, that the intervention itself is hampering the subject's progress in unforeseen ways.

And then there is also the possibility, that the judge might unknowingly be holding incorrect beliefs, rendering their judgment of others unsound and needlessly disruptive!

 

[noirua]

Jesus said, translate the Bible accurately,
and do not change or add anything,
do not use the Bible to build large religions,
and make money via the coming TV or internet.
noirua 1:2

 

[Tink]

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https://www.aussiestockforums.com/threads/postmodernism-marxism-pc-modern-ideological-poison.33852/