Religion IS crazy!

[SirRumpole]

Yes, I think this is because there has been an ever growing number of people that don't take it seriously, so they have lost support, so they simply don't have the power to do the things they once could and are forced to bow to secular laws.

Also science has lifted the curtain and revealed the a lot of the real workings of the universe, stuff we used to give god credit for, eg natural disasters, good seasons/bad seasons, disease, disability etc are all scary, when we have a bad drought now, we blame the weather we don't blame the heathens and go on a religious inquisition, and we don't blame witches for children born with disabilities etc. science had forced a lot of Christians to take the bible metaphorically where as they used to take it literally.

When you don't have the scientific answers you are at the mercy of superstition, often the horrible things people have done in the name of gods is not because they are bad people, they have done it from fear of gods retribution or to get on side with gods because they fear them, science took a lot of the fear away.

Yes good points, so the key to reducing the power of Islam is to educate Muslims in science.

So how we do this in religious theocracies where those in power will resist any challenge to their authority ?

 

[Value Collector]

So how we do this in religious theocracies where those in power will resist any challenge to their authority ?

I think it will happen naturally over time, things like the internet will help a lot, it took Christianity hundreds of years, I think Islam will not take as long because of the speed that information travels at these days, but it still will take a couple of generations to get to our level.

 

[luutzu]

I think it will happen naturally over time, things like the internet will help a lot, it took Christianity hundreds of years, I think Islam will not take as long because of the speed that information travels at these days, but it still will take a couple of generations to get to our level.

If you send in the cavalry, will only take a generation.

Was only two generation ago that the White Australian policy was repealed, and within less than a generation I think most White Australian would thought what was that all about? Nowadays, I'd imagine very few Australian seriously think one race is superior to another - well we all have our biases but in general I think we all frown upon racial discrimination.

For Muslims in the Middle East... there's just way too much power and politics at play that the only thing people could have faith in is to believe and hope that there is a God and that God will reward the good and the pious. I mean, Muslims living in Australia or the US or any other secular society do not commit terrorism or violence more than any other group - so it's not Islam that's the problem, it's the environment and the politics and wars that create extremism and terrorists.

 

[Tink]

I am anti all forms of superstition tink, not just Christian mythology.

and once again, atheism is not communism, as much as you would like to hang the crimes of communism on atheism, you can't, atheism is just a lack of belief in gods, nothing more than that, any thing else is something else.

Atheism and communism

http://www.conservapedia.com/Atheism_and_communism

 

[Value Collector]

Atheism and communism

http://www.conservapedia.com/Atheism_and_communism

Hahahaha, Really Tink, you are going to link a glorified blog written by Christian fundamentalists that tries and masqarade itself as an encyclopaedia, nice try.

linking that page really shows a lot about your inability to seek out unbiased information.

Conservapedia is an English-language wiki encyclopedia project written from an American conservative, creationist, and Christian fundamentalist point of view.The website was started in 2006 by American homeschool teacher

Tink atheism isn't communism, it's just a lack of belief in gods.

Atheists can and probably are absolutely any form of political party that exists, nothing about atheism ties you to a plotical point of view, any political view you have has to come from something else.

If some one tells you they are atheist, you can't assume anything else about them, all it tells you is that they don't believe in gods.

 

[Value Collector]

Here is the Wikipedia article talking about "conservapedia" which is the nonsense Wikipedia copy cat page written by religious nuts that tink linked.

It's not really an encyclopaedia so much as its a blog full of propaganda.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservapedia

If Tink is going to these sort of sites for her information she has no hope, no wonder she thinks atheists are bad, lol.

 

[Tisme]

Don't know, just saw the Matrix and its 0 and 1... that's how digital and computing translate all the codes and nulls right? I never took a course in Computing.




The Indian (not the ones Columbus got lost and "discover") invented the 0 - their philosophy has the concept of nothingness... mix it with the pre-Islamic Arabs/ME mathematicians and it's much smarter than the Roman numerals, whose only use seem to be in sequels to movies See, documentaries does have its merits.

Oh! How will your Christian computer understand the off state without first understanding the concept of nothingness? God have always existed and it took the Indian to see and define zero. No zero will mean it will always be on for you guys.






The Chinese didn't just invent the paper for Guttenberg to print on. They have also invented printing presses and from a doco i saw had also massed produced all kind of books. So beside secret martial arts manuscripts and calligraphy, have also done the printing - and put it to more useful stuff than the Bible about some fairies and magical castles in the sky... ne ne...



The Portuguese and Spaniards were part of the Islamic empire way back then right? Was conquered until the 13th century when the Mongolian kind messed things up for the Muslims a bit.




Alan Mathison Turing, OBE, FRS (/ˈtjʊərɪŋ/; 23 June 1912 – 7 June 1954) was a British pioneering computer scientist, mathematician, logician, cryptanalyst and theoretical biologist. He was highly influential in the development of computer science, providing a formalisation of the concepts of algorithm and computation with the Turing machine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Turing

Yea, the German made good use of IBM's slot card computing against certain groups of undesirables and war planning and logistics too I bet.

But without Turing's code breaking machine, it would have taken thousands or millions of years to crack the Enigma though right?

Anyway, point was... the advanced and noble Christian values Harris was on about led to the suicide of one of its heroes at the age of 41. Maybe giving a guy like Turing a couple of decade during peace time in the age of electronics and transitors... might have resulted in something useful than an early and painful death... not just to Turing but to thousands of other British citizens.

1 to me, no zero to Harris




Bad analogy.

The Chinese invented paper, got the ink, got the block printing, printed books with it too... Guttenberg did the same but only a few centuries later and got all the kudos as though he invented printing and mass production of books.

The Arab sailors invented the triangular sails... with it European ships could travel faster and navigate better. Their astronomy and all those books they translated made it possible to get out of the Dark Ages.

Those are more than an idea they had in their sleeps I'd say.

----

What are we on about again?

That long dead people of your shades are better than long dead people of my shade?

Anyway, Harris is a stooge to his country's propaganda. That's all fine and all understandable... we all believe in the nobility and superiority of our own. But to call such people Liberal or an Intellectual offend reality and those who truly are a pain in the behind of everyone because they're always objective and rational and will not apologise for crimes and cruelty.

Back on deck ... where were we....ah yes you were maintaining that Europe and the industrial/technology revolution never happened .......

 

[Tisme]

Atheism and communism

http://www.conservapedia.com/Atheism_and_communism

I'd go along with that Tink for two reasons:

1. it's plausable
2. if you ever watched Rocky an Bullwinkle you would be familiar with Captain Peter Peachfuzz, nicknamed "Wrong Way"; based on this I would tend to believe the opposite of what VC says ....has anyone seen my wooden spoon laying about?

 

[Tink]

Thanks, Tisme.

I wasn't going to reply in this thread, but just to confirm -- I wasn't having a go at atheists, I know you get good and bad in all people.

VC, and his twisting of words, that I dislike atheists, is not true.

You don't like the shoe on the other foot, VC, that your religion is crazy.

 

[Tisme]

Thanks, Tisme.

I wasn't going to reply in this thread, but just to confirm -- I wasn't having a go at atheists, I know you get good and bad in all people.

VC, and his twisting of words, that I dislike atheists, is not true.

You don't like the shoe on the other foot, VC, that your religion is crazy.

VC argues with anything traditional, religiously.

 

[Value Collector]

You don't like the shoe on the other foot, VC, that your religion is crazy.

No I don't like you constantly portraying atheism and communism as the same thing, and trying to say atheism is responsible for the crimes of the communists, which it is not.

Atheism is a lack of belief in any gods, this "Unconvinced" position has no tenants, doctrine etc it doesn't lead you to commit crimes or do anything good or bad, any good or bad you do has to be inspired by another opinion you hold.

So the fact that some of the communists were atheists is irrelevant, because it was their political agenda that lead them to commit crimes against humanity, not their disbelief in gods, However ISIS and the like a different, their killing is a direct result of being convinced a god exists and their scriptures are his commands.

 

[SirRumpole]

No I don't like you constantly portraying atheism and communism as the same thing, and trying to say atheism is responsible for the crimes of the communists, which it is not.

Atheism is a lack of belief in any gods, this "Unconvinced" position has no tenants, doctrine etc it doesn't lead you to commit crimes or do anything good or bad, any good or bad you do has to be inspired by another opinion you hold.

So the fact that some of the communists were atheists is irrelevant, because it was their political agenda that lead them to commit crimes against humanity, not their disbelief in gods, However ISIS and the like a different, their killing is a direct result of being convinced a god exists and their scriptures are his commands.

The communists under Mao actively suppressed religion and the Chinese communists still do, namely the Falang Gong and Buddhism in Tibet, Richard Dawkins wants to destroy religion in all its forms.

It doesn't really matter that there is no atheist Bible that says to destroy religion, militant atheism is anti religion and can be as intolerant as you say religion is.

 

[luutzu]

The communists under Mao actively suppressed religion and the Chinese communists still do, namely the Falang Gong and Buddhism in Tibet, Richard Dawkins wants to destroy religion in all its forms.

It doesn't really matter that there is no atheist Bible that says to destroy religion, militant atheism is anti religion and can be as intolerant as you say religion is.

What Mao and the Communist did weren't in the name of Atheism. It's in of name of Communist and the people's Emperor Mao.

They were against Christian, Buddhist, Taoist, Confucian, atheist, engineer, metalurgists, farming, birds... they're nuts.

VC is not a militant Atheist... he religiously bashes religions but he support your right to practice and believe its nonsense. A militant would lock you up, burn your church and give you his small red book to memorise

 

[SirRumpole]

What Mao and the Communist did weren't in the name of Atheism. It's in of name of Communist and the people's Emperor Mao.

They were against Christian, Buddhist, Taoist, Confucian, atheist, engineer, metalurgists, farming, birds... they're nuts.

VC is not a militant Atheist... he religiously bashes religions but he support your right to practice and believe its nonsense. A militant would lock you up, burn your church and give you his small red book to memorise

I never called VC a militant atheist, I just said that they existed and can be as intolerant as religion is.

 

[Value Collector]

The communists under Mao actively suppressed religion and the Chinese communists still do, namely the Falang Gong and Buddhism in Tibet,.

Yes, because they see it as a threat to their political party, not because they are atheists.

Richard Dawkins wants to destroy religion in all its forms.

Yes, because he believes it is damaging to society, and a dangerous thing, again not because his atheism.

It doesn't really matter that there is no atheist Bible that says to destroy religion, militant atheism is anti religion and can be as intolerant as you say religion is

The word you are looking for there is anti-theism, not atheism. And again it takes a lot more than a simple disbelief to become anti-theist.

look at yourself, you believe in a deist type god, a rather simple belief which by itself can not really inspire violence, it takes other doctrines and scriptures and beliefs to do that, simple atheism is even more benign, its just being unconvinced that a god exists.

An atheist may become militant if he comes to believe that religion is harmful and needs to be stopped, again this is not atheism itself, this is a separate belief based on other experiances, not just the disbelief in gods.

 

[luutzu]

[/SIZE]


Back on deck ... where were we....ah yes you were maintaining that Europe and the industrial/technology revolution never happened .......

can't remember

oh yea... Christianity build Western civilisation and made it great and tolerant while others, mainly Islam, screwed up its own civilisation and churn out terrorists or refugees... something like that.

Point was, we can't use a civilisation's high or low point to make our case of one being superior or inferior to another. We all have our moment in the sun killing the others whose sun was waning and we switched off their light, crack more than a few skulls, took their stuff, control the printing press and get "intellectuals" like Harris to make us feel all proud and superior.

If Rome could be reduced to selling coffee and tickets to its ruins; If the children of the Great Khans could be land locked and find it hard to deal with Rio Tinto; If the British Empire could lose practically all its possession and become a good Lieutenant to its former colony; If Greece could go bankrupt and sell its islands for olives to a few bankers... feeling superior for what our forefathers had done is nice, if we don't keep up but rest on our superiority the Chinese or the Indians or the Arabs could just pull the rug from under - because they have done it, could do it.

 

[Value Collector]

I never called VC a militant atheist, I just said that they existed and can be as intolerant as religion is.

Again I think you are describing an antitheist.

Atheist- a person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods. (nothing more than that)

Anti-theist - person who is in active opposition to theism. A person who holds the view that organized religion when considered throughout the centuries has been a destructive force in society.


There is actually a big step and a lot of other beliefs to form before you can go from atheism to anti-theism. they are actually two separate things, and shouldn't be confused.

 

[luutzu]

I never called VC a militant atheist, I just said that they existed and can be as intolerant as religion is.

Oh yea... maybe it was just me then

 

[Tisme]

Point was, we can't use a civilisation's high or low point to make our case of one being superior or inferior to another. We all have our moment in the sun killing the others

.

Yeah but why did the low life have to pick now to vandalise civilisation? Did they think of my discomfort .... obviously not. the selfish bug9ers.

It would be brave person not to agree we (western democracies) really do enjoy the fruits of the past and there might have been 10k years leading up to the 17th century, but the exponential acceleration since England embraced/developed/invented large scale mechanisation, factories and commerce has been amazing .....when I think of those pointy heads who said we had stalled in the 1970's

 

[SirRumpole]

ook at yourself, you believe in a deist type god, a rather simple belief which by itself can not really inspire violence, it takes other doctrines and scriptures and beliefs to do that, simple atheism is even more benign, its just being unconvinced that a god exists.

An atheist may become militant if he comes to believe that religion is harmful and needs to be stopped, again this is not atheism itself, this is a separate belief based on other experiances, not just the disbelief in gods.

What we are both talking about surely is extremism. It's pretty obvious to me that extremism implies intolerance and its also apparent to me that either a religious person or an anti religious person is capable of it in fairly equal measure.