Religion IS crazy!

[SirRumpole]

Maybe not street protests, but I have heard lots of Catholics protesting through social media.

And if you want a direct correlation with terrorism, the was plenty of street protests in Northern Ireland, by Catholics, i doubt you could say they all supported the Ira.

I think that both Catholics and Muslims should be glad that bad apples are being removed from their organisations. I can't see any reason why either group should complain about genuine investigations unless they have something to hide.

 

[Julia]

The point I was highlighting from the polling,

Your 'poll" link goes to something called "Quartz". Who or what is Quartz? Why should we take as fact what your chart suggests? There is no information about :
who was surveyed
how many people were surveyed
how was it conducted
what were the actual questions

or any other aspect of methodology.

I note the item following your 'poll' is

Is your dog a pessimist or an optimist?

which possibly offers some clue about the rigour of any methodology.
Sounds like something "New Idea" would put up.

..... people who believe in teaching religious faith seem to not be interested in many of the "values" of the major faiths ie empathy for others, helping others and tolerance.

That's just a really silly generalisation, even if the 'research' were to be valid which I doubt.
Plenty of people who are committed to religion will be kind and helpful to others, just as plenty who are atheist or agnostic will be also.

And as I've said earlier, no mention is made of other vital characteristics such as the value of personal independence rather than depending on a nanny state, and economic and financial literacy.

 

[sydboy007]

Your 'poll" link goes to something called "Quartz". Who or what is Quartz? Why should we take as fact what your chart suggests? There is no information about :
who was surveyed
how many people were surveyed
how was it conducted
what were the actual questions

or any other aspect of methodology.

I note the item following your 'poll' is


which possibly offers some clue about the rigour of any methodology.
Sounds like something "New Idea" would put up.


That's just a really silly generalisation, even if the 'research' were to be valid which I doubt.
Plenty of people who are committed to religion will be kind and helpful to others, just as plenty who are atheist or agnostic will be also.

And as I've said earlier, no mention is made of other vital characteristics such as the value of personal independence rather than depending on a nanny state, and economic and financial literacy.

The poll was done by PEW research. A more detail analysis of the polling can be found at http://www.people-press.org/2014/09...n-the-most-important-values-to-teach-children

All readily available if you'd read the quartz article and clicked on the mentioned links.

I think the relative importance given to hard work probably satisfies your demands to avoid the nanny state and be financially independent, along with being responsible as the top choice for both groups.

Further information on how the PEW group organised their polling can be found at http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...ion-survey-and-launched-a-new-research-panel/

This survey includes more than 10,000 adults. Why did you decide to survey so many people for this report – isn’t a nationally representative sample usually around 1,000 people?

There are many reasons, but the most important is that having a larger number of people participating in the survey allows us to better describe the characteristics, attitudes and behaviors of smaller segments of the larger, nationwide public. For example, the larger sample allows us to interview a larger number of campaign donors, people with consistently conservative or liberal attitudes or regular primary voters. These individuals, even as smaller shares of the public, may have an outsize impact on the phenomenon of political polarization.

PEW research are fairly well regarded in the polling they've done over many years. They're polling analysis is reported in many publications around the world.

After reading Matt Taibbi's The Divide: American Injustice in the Age of the Wealth Gap, I can see the above IS representative of the conservative politicians and their voter base. Lots of talk about God, yet little of his charitable kindness. Welfare "cheats" thrown into jail, often due to Government mistakes, while bankers pleading guilty to money laundering for drug cartels face no personal consequences for their crimes. No jail time, and the company pays their fines as a cost of doing business. Barclays stole at least -- at least -- five billion dollars from the pension funds, small towns and individuals who were owed money by Lehman Brothers. The smoking gun of their deceit was laid bare, the legal system acknowledged their deceit, but then did absolutely NOTHING about it, while retirees had their pensions massively scaled back due to the pillaging of those funds.

 

[Wysiwyg]

Wake up Australia before it is too late.

Easy there tiger. Take a drive up Castle Hill and report back on any voices.

I know I know. It's all b.s.

 

[noco]

Easy there tiger. Take a drive up Castle Hill and report back on any voices.

I know I know. It's all b.s.

I have posted this before on two threads, but I am happy to do it again just for you.

BTW....did you know Castle Hill is 2 feet short of a mountain......it has a panoramic view sweeping 360 degrees of the best city in the world..

http://www.restoreaustralia.org.au/fabians-and-pm-gillard/

They have opened the doors to illegal invaders who are bringing in a religion that goes totally against our way of life. They are using Islam to create divisions in our society and turn citizen against citizen. At the same time, they have neglected our own needy; our aged and veterans, the very citizens who have contributed so much to our country and who should now be enjoying the fruits of their labour. Instead, they are living on the brink of poverty.

I do hope you read the full link.

 

[noco]

This young lady from the from the Daily Telegraph, Tanya Smart, sure had a lot of gutz in seeking out the reaction of the public.

No doubt she would have been pleased to have removed the charade once and for all.


http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...familiar-streets/story-fnii5s41-1227073346610

 

[pixel]

This young lady from the from the Daily Telegraph, Tanya Smart, sure had a lot of gutz in seeking out the reaction of the public.

No doubt she would have been pleased to have removed the charade once and for all.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...familiar-streets/story-fnii5s41-1227073346610

There is an easy solution, which has been known since time immemorial:
"When in Rome, do as the Romans do."

The phrase may have been first applied to tourists, but it is even more applicable to people who want to stay and become citizens of a new country. Leave your superstitions behind, learn the lingo and adapt.

 

[Calliope]

It is a terrifying thought that in the United States 69% of the population are nut-jobs who believe in creationism of some sort, and only 31% believe in evolution and the numbers are lessening. And these nut-jobs are the ones we are relying on to combat the Islamic nut-jobs.


.

 

[bunyip]

The terrible suffering of tens of thousands of people continues at the hands of the barbarians known as ISIS. (Islamic Scum Of Iraq And Syria)
These bastards make the Vikings look like angels – surely it’s not too much to expect the Christian god to step in and strike them down.
There wouldn’t be any need for planes and bombs and ground troops to stop them.....IF the Christian god would only live up to his reputation of love and compassion and righteousness.
But his track record is less than impressive when it comes to putting his money where his mouth is.
So we’ll have to rely on guns and planes and bombs and military personnel to sort out these monsters. Then if we’re successful the Christians will say ‘Praise be to our just and merciful God, once again he’s helped us to triumph over evil.’

 

[explod]

The terrible suffering of tens of thousands of people continues at the hands of the barbarians known as ISIS. (Islamic Scum Of Iraq And Syria)
These bastards make the Vikings look like angels – surely it’s not too much to expect the Christian god to step in and strike them down.
There wouldn’t be any need for planes and bombs and ground troops to stop them.....IF the Christian god would only live up to his reputation of love and compassion and righteousness.
But his track record is less than impressive when it comes to putting his money where his mouth is.
So we’ll have to rely on guns and planes and bombs and military personnel to sort out these monsters. Then if we’re successful the Christians will say ‘Praise be to our just and merciful God,
once again he’s helped us to triumph over evil.’

Agree. The flocks follow the God taught to them as children. It bwcomes an icon in the subconcious and has been passed down through the generations from its beginning when the chiefs of thecfar flung tribes decided he wanted total control over his people. So he created the wotch doctor who lived apart and took prominance as the first sprirt (a God). on fear of nasty spell the chief had full control.
We have the Queen of England who is the icon of the crown which all people follow, even to thevdeath in war.

The story of jesus was one facilitated by emporer Constantine 2000 years ago when he realised the potential of it to control the wide spread empires.

We still have the same religion today but close to home the football does a great job o keeping the people preoccupied and away from questioning thier role of looking after the imterest of the wealthy (still the real Gods) and keeping us in our place.

Fear of course is the big stick of it all and just about every day we have to go to page 9 of the paper to get past the photos of jet fighters and pictures of the Rabbit in jungle greens(so to speak).

I feel sorry for the sheeple who are really slaves to the real Gods, the international money controllers.

Have a good weekend. And perhaps pop into the library and pick up a copy of the "golden bough" or"the god delusio"

there has been a lot of chritcism of such texts, and that is because they reveal the real truths. Decide for yourself by objectively reading them.

 

[noco]

The terrible suffering of tens of thousands of people continues at the hands of the barbarians known as ISIS. (Islamic Scum Of Iraq And Syria)
These bastards make the Vikings look like angels – surely it’s not too much to expect the Christian god to step in and strike them down.
There wouldn’t be any need for planes and bombs and ground troops to stop them.....IF the Christian god would only live up to his reputation of love and compassion and righteousness.
But his track record is less than impressive when it comes to putting his money where his mouth is.
So we’ll have to rely on guns and planes and bombs and military personnel to sort out these monsters. Then if we’re successful the Christians will say ‘Praise be to our just and merciful God, once again he’s helped us to triumph over evil.’

Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition.

 

[bellenuit]

Source: Pew Research

http://www.pewforum.org/files/2013/04/worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-full-report.pdf

What I find really worrying is that even though we think of ISIS or Al Qaida as extremists but the normal Muslim population as moderate, still sizeable minorities (and in some cases majorities) of the Muslim populations in the above countries support policies/acts that we in the West (at least most of us) would regard as extreme and unacceptable. I think it safe to assume that immigrant Muslims in this country would hold views on the above topics in proportion to those of their country of origin. One would assume that those born in this country would be more tolerant, but I would think only for those that are raised outside the influence of radicals in their community.

 

[luutzu]

View attachment 59781

View attachment 59782

Source: Pew Research

http://www.pewforum.org/files/2013/04/worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-full-report.pdf

What I find really worrying is that even though we think of ISIS or Al Qaida as extremists but the normal Muslim population as moderate, still sizeable minorities (and in some cases majorities) of the Muslim populations in the above countries support policies/acts that we in the West (at least most of us) would regard as extreme and unacceptable. I think it safe to assume that immigrant Muslims in this country would hold views on the above topics in proportion to those of their country of origin. One would assume that those born in this country would be more tolerant, but I would think only for those that are raised outside the influence of radicals in their community.

Be more useful to have that kind of survey on the Muslims living in the West wouldn't you think?

 

[bellenuit]

Be more useful to have that kind of survey on the Muslims living in the West wouldn't you think?

More useful than what. This forum is on "Religion Is Crazy" and the poll result stands on its own right as an indication of Muslim attitudes in predominantly Muslim countries. Of course other polls would be useful too, but why say "more useful" unless the results are not in line with your opinion and you want to downplay them by pretending they are somehow not significant because they don't include attitudes of Muslims living elsewhere. It would be pointless just to calculate for this thread, but as a guesstimate these countries probably account for 90% or more of the world's muslims.

Figures (commissioned by BB4 4) for those in the UK, a first world country with a large Muslim population that now has been part of their society for many generations (and hence one would expect to be no longer influenced by extremist acts and policies of their original countries) still show a not insignificant minority holding what the rest of us would regard as extremist views.

NOP Poll of British Muslims

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/291

 

[luutzu]

More useful than what. This forum is on "Religion Is Crazy" and the poll result stands on its own right as an indication of Muslim attitudes in predominantly Muslim countries. Of course other polls would be useful too, but why say "more useful" unless the results are not in line with your opinion and you want to downplay them by pretending they are somehow not significant because they don't include attitudes of Muslims living elsewhere. It would be pointless just to calculate for this thread, but as a guesstimate these countries probably account for 90% or more of the world's muslims.

Figures (commissioned by BB4 4) for those in the UK, a first world country with a large Muslim population that now has been part of their society for many generations (and hence one would expect to be no longer influenced by extremist acts and policies of their original countries) still show a not insignificant minority holding what the rest of us would regard as extremist views.

NOP Poll of British Muslims

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/291

That poll and your interpretation of it as applying equally to Muslims living or growing or born in Western societies is like a poll of third world people on whether eating high level of fatty food and meat and burgers are good or not. I think you'll find they will all say it's the best kind of diet - high fat, high protein... then from that, concludes that ethnic people living in the West have no clue about cholesterol or a balanced diet.

Or ask them what's their favourite TV show then imply that all them here love those shows and dislike Baywatch or Friends or How I met your Mother.

I'm saying you're not sampling correctly.

Trust me, my thinking and opinions are very very different to my cousins or aunts and uncles living back in my native country.

 

[luutzu]

More useful than what. This forum is on "Religion Is Crazy" and the poll result stands on its own right as an indication of Muslim attitudes in predominantly Muslim countries. Of course other polls would be useful too, but why say "more useful" unless the results are not in line with your opinion and you want to downplay them by pretending they are somehow not significant because they don't include attitudes of Muslims living elsewhere. It would be pointless just to calculate for this thread, but as a guesstimate these countries probably account for 90% or more of the world's muslims.

Figures (commissioned by BB4 4) for those in the UK, a first world country with a large Muslim population that now has been part of their society for many generations (and hence one would expect to be no longer influenced by extremist acts and policies of their original countries) still show a not insignificant minority holding what the rest of us would regard as extremist views.

NOP Poll of British Muslims

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/291

I read the comments on that poll, the results sound reasonable to me.
What were you expecting? That they all think like us, or think like White people?

Though I'm pretty sure a lot more admire bin Laden than they admit to in that poll.

This former CIA head of the bin Laden Unit - in charge of hunting him and kill him - Michael Scheuer... the guy deeply admire bin Laden. He just said that bin Laden bat for the wrong team, that he's against us and our interest so he must be hunted down and stopped.

When you're at war, the worst thing you can do is disrespect your enemy. It makes you feel good to call them evil and barbarians and what not... it does more harm than good to actual, useful, plans to defend and defeat the enemy wanting to feel good like that.

 

[pixel]

Only in America
MT. VERNON, TEXAS ... W#0REHOUSE SUES LOCAL CHURCH OVER LIGHTNING STRIKE!
Diamond D's brothel began construction on an expansion of their building to increase their ever-growing business. In response, the local Baptist Church started a campaign to block the business from expanding -- with morning, afternoon, and evening prayer sessions at their church.
Work on Diamond D's progressed right up until the week before the grand reopening when lightning struck the w#0rehouse and burned it to the ground.
After the cathouse was burned to the ground by the lightning strike, the church folks were rather smug in their outlook, bragging about "the power of prayer."
But late last week Jill Diamond, the owner/madam, sued the church, the preacher and the entire congregation on the grounds that the church ... "was ultimately responsible for the demise of her building and her business -- either through direct or indirect divine actions or means."
In its reply to the court, the church vehemently and voraciously (sic) denied any and all responsibility or any connection to the building's demise.
The crusty old judge read through the plaintiff's complaint and the defendant's reply, and at the opening hearing he commented: "I don't know how the hell I'm going to decide this case, but it appears from the paperwork that we now have a w#0rehouse owner who staunchly believes in the power of prayer, and an entire church congregation that thinks it's all bulls'h1t."

PS. Disclaimer: see http://www.snopes.com/humor/iftrue/prayer.asp

 

[Calliope]

Trust me, my thinking and opinions are very very different to my cousins or aunts and uncles living back in my native country.

I wasn't aware that we had Vietnamese /Muslim communities in Australia.

Another well remembered exodus of Vietnamese Muslims was after the Vietnam War in 1975. A large number of Muslims migrated to other countries such as America, France, Malaysia, India, Canada and Australia because they had feared persecution from the newly installed socialist government.

http://www.islamicpopulation.com/asia/Vietnam/Muslims of Vietnam.htm

 

[luutzu]

I wasn't aware that we had Vietnamese /Muslim communities in Australia.

http://www.islamicpopulation.com/asia/Vietnam/Muslims of Vietnam.htm

I'm not a Muslim.

My mother's side are all Catholics, my father's side's Buddhists. My mum pray to both, haha... not pray but light incense during New Year's, and make offerings during the year.

Though I like the Confucian cultural practice of worshipping your ancestors. That after they pass away, you have their image on the family altar and light incense and pour tea everyday or when you can... so that you remember them.

 

[bunyip]

Only in America
MT. VERNON, TEXAS ... W#0REHOUSE SUES LOCAL CHURCH OVER LIGHTNING STRIKE!
Diamond D's brothel began construction on an expansion of their building to increase their ever-growing business. In response, the local Baptist Church started a campaign to block the business from expanding -- with morning, afternoon, and evening prayer sessions at their church.
Work on Diamond D's progressed right up until the week before the grand reopening when lightning struck the w#0rehouse and burned it to the ground.
After the cathouse was burned to the ground by the lightning strike, the church folks were rather smug in their outlook, bragging about "the power of prayer."
But late last week Jill Diamond, the owner/madam, sued the church, the preacher and the entire congregation on the grounds that the church ... "was ultimately responsible for the demise of her building and her business -- either through direct or indirect divine actions or means."
In its reply to the court, the church vehemently and voraciously (sic) denied any and all responsibility or any connection to the building's demise.
The crusty old judge read through the plaintiff's complaint and the defendant's reply, and at the opening hearing he commented: "I don't know how the hell I'm going to decide this case, but it appears from the paperwork that we now have a w#0rehouse owner who staunchly believes in the power of prayer, and an entire church congregation that thinks it's all bulls'h1t."

PS. Disclaimer: see http://www.snopes.com/humor/iftrue/prayer.asp

LOL - That one gave me a laugh!