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Religion IS crazy!

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On the existence or otherwise of a god, the following is from a TED Talk on creativity.

A teacher asked her class of very young children to draw a picture of anything they liked.
One little girl was working earnestly at her drawing and the teacher asked what it was.
"It's a picture of God", said the child. "Oh", said the teacher, "but no one knows what God looks like."

"They will in a minute", said the child.:)

Kind of says it all. You can make a god out of anything.
 
Julia said:
On the existence or otherwise of a god, the following is from a TED Talk on creativity.

A teacher asked her class of very young children to draw a picture of anything they liked.
One little girl was working earnestly at her drawing and the teacher asked what it was.
"It's a picture of God", said the child. "Oh", said the teacher, "but no one knows what God looks like."

"They will in a minute", said the child.:)

Kind of says it all. You can make a god out of anything.
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Quite right, Julia, you can make a god out of anything. And that’s exactly what the human race has done throughout history.
The sun, the moon, thunder and a host of other natural phenomenon were revered and in some cases feared for their power. When the ancients failed to come up with a rational explanation for these phenomenon, their response in many cases was that it must be a god or at least caused by a god. Hence the invention of the sun god, the moon god, the god of thunder, the rainbow serpent, and various other creations of the mind that were all credited with the possession of supernatural powers just like that other creation of the human mind - the Christian god - and were worshipped with just as much fervor and reverence as Christians bestow upon their god.
 
I've recently finnished Dan Brown's "Angels and Demons"; seen the movie years ago, found the book even better.
That has kind of "primed me" to take notice when I came across a youtube clip, in which a bunch of Christian Vigilanti Funnymentalists offer proof that the Illuminati still exist and brainwash TV audiences into Satanic cults that preempt the Second Coming. It's about 8 minutes long and truly amusing:

X-Factor Australia - Satanic Baphomet EXPOSED !!! Global Illuminati Brainwashing Agenda!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmTHenjZV9Y
 
I started "Angels and Demons" a few years ago after all the fuss about the more well known effort "The Da Vinci Code".
Couldn't get past around 30 pages because the writing was so bad.
 
Re: Religion IS crazy! - Yes it is...

Don't know which thread to put this one in....

Liberia's Gay Community Under Attack Over Ebola Outbreak

DAKAR/NEW YORK, Oct 23 (Thomson Reuters Foundation) - Leroy Ponpon doesn't know whether to lock himself in his flat in Monrovia because of the deadly Ebola virus, or because he is gay. Christian churches' recent linking of the two have made life hell for him and hundreds of other gays.

Ponpon, an LGBT campaigner in the Liberian capital, says gays have been harassed, physically attacked and a few have had their cars smashed by people blaming them for the haemorrhagic fever, after religious leaders in Liberia said Ebola was a punishment from God for homosexuality.

"Since church ministers declared Ebola was a plague sent by God to punish sodomy in Liberia, the violence towards gays has escalated. They're even asking for the death penalty. We're living in fear," Ponpon told the Thomson Reuters Foundation by telephone from Monrovia.
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Earlier this year, the Liberian Council of Churches said in a statement that God was angry with Liberians "over corruption and immoral acts" such as homosexuality, and that Ebola was a punishment.

In May, Archbishop Lewis Zeigler of the Catholic Church of Liberia said that "one of the major transgressions against God for which He may be punishing Liberia is the act of homosexuality," local media reported.
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/23/liberia-gay-ebola-outbreak-_n_6034256.html
 
Better take your own towels

[video=youtube_share;kbgWX-t0EYA]http://youtu.be/kbgWX-t0EYA[/video]

oh and according to Pat, you'd better be careful who you shake hands with as well.

[video=youtube_share;wRSQBnqsUgU]http://youtu.be/wRSQBnqsUgU[/video]

Me thinks 50% hate, 50% bigotry, and 50% stupidity.
 
Re: Religion IS crazy! - Yes it is...

DB008 said:
Don't know which thread to put this one in....

Liberia's Gay Community Under Attack Over Ebola Outbreak

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/23/liberia-gay-ebola-outbreak-_n_6034256.html
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I put that up there with pat Robbinson blaming Haitians for the 2010 earthquake

[video=youtube_share;59NCduEhkBM]http://youtu.be/59NCduEhkBM[/video]

oh and Pat even sounds a little bit jealous of the Muslims re wife beating

[video=youtube_share;O39c1BpVgLc]http://youtu.be/O39c1BpVgLc[/video]
 
Religion IS crazy!

I was doing some homework on the validity of religion and true science and after a while it became apparent there are lots of venerated people wrapped under the swaddling cloth of religion whose discoveries, theories and practices where at best worthless to the outcomes.

Sure we can look back on Socrates, Euclid, Ptolemy, Aristotle, etc and say to ourselves they started the thinking process, but did they invent antibiotics? = no, did they invent the car engine? = no, the light bulb? = no, CaT scanners? = no, rocket ships = no way in hell! Nor did the blokes with too much time on their hands who wrote the Bible and the Koran. :D
 
I don't know how many times it has been repeated in this thread where science originated.

Like rebellious children putting down their parents.

When are they going to realise they both contributed in society.
 
Tink said:
I don't know how many times it has been repeated in this thread where science originated. Like rebellious children putting down their parents. When are they going to realise they both contributed in society.
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And that God is actually the creator of science and to say he is the best scientist ever to exist is an understatement of epic proportions.
 
Tisme said:
Religion IS crazy! I was doing some homework on the validity of religion and true science and after a while it became apparent there are lots of venerated people wrapped under the swaddling cloth of religion whose discoveries, theories and practices where at best worthless to the outcomes. Sure we can look back on Socrates, Euclid, Ptolemy, Aristotle, etc and say to ourselves they started the thinking process, but did they invent antibiotics? = no, did they invent the car engine? = no, the light bulb? = no, CaT scanners? = no, rocket ships = no way in hell! Nor did the blokes with too much time on their hands who wrote the Bible and the Koran. :D
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Let's get excited and amazed at all those great inventions but just not the creator of the entire universe!
 
Tink said:
I don't know how many times it has been repeated in this thread where science originated.

Like rebellious children putting down their parents.

When are they going to realise they both contributed in society.
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I think true science originated in post Catholic Europe/Britain, the befores were just froth and bubble; although the Chinese no doubt would claim they invented everything thousands of years before dinosaurs.:rolleyes:
 
Tisme said:
I think true science originated in post Catholic Europe/Britain, the befores were just froth and bubble; although the Chinese no doubt would claim they invented everything thousands of years before dinosaurs.:rolleyes:
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What year is that post Catholic Europe? If by true science you mean the modern scientific method of doing a literature review, propose a hypothesis, describe in detail the variables and methods to measure it and test the hypothesis... describe to the detail that it could be repeated by other scholars/scientists, then conclusion and suggested implication and further research etc... then it's relatively new - around 1850s?

But great sciences and its methods had been advanced long before this, in countries and cultures that is not Britain. There's the Greek philosophers and mathematicians who established the basis for rational thinking, the Arab astronomers, and yes, the Chinese philosophers, historians and generals who made conclusions based on observation s and not just hunches.

There's a saying that all philosophy after Socrates are just footnotes? Modern sciences are all micro steps, all incremental advances. That's not being dismissive of it. In my opinion, it's what made science "real science" and our world advances on that approach and we're eating and living (and killing) better because of it. BUT...

But I sense that you're a bit dismissive of the achievements of scientists and thinkers before this approach.

First, it didn't come about because the Western or British scientists are smarter and thought of it while others didn't. It came about because the Magna Carta eventually led to such thing as private property and intellectual properties and copyrights... with the law protecting private property, scientists and businesses start to trademark and publish their findings, thereby sharing it with the world - the world got a bit smarter, other inventors and scientists get to know what's out there and either go a bit better or put their effort elsewhere... that or wait until the copyright expires.

The Magna Carta and the rights of Man etc... that was only meant to be for free Men, and free Men then were only the Lords. Many happy accidents and a lot of self interests and here we are.

----

With regards to China and their claims... I have never heard they ever claim to invent everything. They did consider themselves the Middle Kingdom, control all that is civilised under heaven while others are savages and barbarians... but they weren't the only ones with that kind of arrogance before or since.

Though they did invent paper money, bank cheques, printing, paper, gunpowder, fireworks, the compass, sailed their blue water naval fleet across Asia, India, the Middle East, Africa to project military might before an Emperor's death and near financial bankruptcy shut that down, leaving Columbus and Western countries to start their colonisation and become real powers.

If countries and people that so dominate and influence the world for so much of world's history could be laughed at and are either a basket case or a sick man only known for cheap knock offs; despite the wealth and undoubt creativity and intelligence, despite the great advances and our contributions to this modern world... perhaps history ought to tell us that we too could fall like all great powers has before us. I think it starts with establishing an empire then feeling invincible because of it.
 
Thank you, luutzu;
for a very concise and unbiased digest of the history of science.
In the context of religion, it may be worth adding a few non-British influences.

When Britain was still asleep in the Dark Ages, Arab scholars were busily studying Greek philosophers, Indian numerals, Egyptian art; they saw no conflict between "Western" ideas and the Qur'an. Their bridgehead in parts of Spain became a melting pot and provided much of the impetus that centuries later sparked the European Renaissance. Even after their defeat in 732, Arab scholars and artisans were highly regarded in Central Europe and invited to teach medicine and other sciences.

In Italy (of all places!) a few thinkers began comparing their findings with Church Doctrine, which was found wanting. Free thinkers like Leonardo broke taboos and measured and dissected bodies, so they could understand how to draw correct portraits. Johann Gensfleisch (German for goose flesh; no wonder he changed his name to Gutenberg) built the first functioning reusable printing press, which, for the first time, made ideas more readily available to ordinary people. No longer were thoughts controlled by religious and state rulers. It took a few centuries to filter through, but in the 18th century, Friedrich Schiller could finally plead freedom of ideas "Sire, geben Sie Gedankenfreiheit."

Some of these geniuses worked within the confines of the Church; Gutenberg's first book was the Bible. But he would be well aware that the benefits of his device wouldn't stop there. Luther, Erasmus, Melanchthon, to name but a few, could have their ideas disseminated on "fliers", in defiance of Church Doctrine. Copernicus' description of planetary motions spread across Europe in print. Would Shakespeare's plays have had the impact they did without people being able to read them?
 
Doesn't anybody find it ironic that there is a 'Royal Commission in Child Abuse', yet the prophet of a major religion (Mohammed, Islam), married a 7 year old?


http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aisha

‘Ā’ishah bint Abī Bakr (b. 613/614 CE – d. 678 CE[1]) (Arabic: عائشة‎ transliteration: ‘Ā’ishah, [ʕaːʔiʃa], also transcribed as A'ishah, Aisyah, Ayesha, A'isha, Aishat, Aishah, or Aisha) was one of Muhammad's wives.[2] In Islamic writings, her name is thus often prefixed by the title "Mother of the Believers" (Arabic: أمّ المؤمنين umm al-mu'minīn), per the description of Muhammad's wives in the Quran.[3][4][5]

The majority of traditional hadith sources state that Aisha was married to Muhammad at the age of six or seven, but she stayed in her parents' home until the age of nine, or ten according to Ibn Hisham,[6] when the marriage was consummated with Muhammad, then 53, in Medina;[7][8][9]
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Opps, I forgot, Islam is above everyone/everything?
 
DB008 said:
Doesn't anybody find it ironic that there is a 'Royal Commission in Child Abuse', yet the prophet of a major religion (Mohammed, Islam), married a 7 year old?

http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aisha

Opps, I forgot, Islam is above everyone/everything?
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Don't really see the link to be honest.

The RC is looking into recent events where the actions of people can still be punished, where changes can be made to stop it occurring.

I do agree that in the west we seem to worry about offending others far too much. As long as issues are discussed in a factual manner I don't really care if someone chooses to be offended. It's when you get people making up stories that I draw the line.

Facts are reasonably easy to verify, stories tend to change depending on the target audience.
 
sydboy007 said:
Don't really see the link to be honest.

The RC is looking into recent events where the actions of people can still be punished, where changes can be made to stop it occurring.

I do agree that in the west we seem to worry about offending others far too much. As long as issues are discussed in a factual manner I don't really care if someone chooses to be offended. It's when you get people making up stories that I draw the line.

Facts are reasonably easy to verify, stories tend to change depending on the target audience.
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Correct, Syd;
If one wants to drag up dirt from the past, when some people's standards differed from a select few of today, there won't be an end to it.
Ooo-Ahh! The Aztecs cut living victims' hearts out!
Ooo-Ahh! The Conquistadors slaughtered American Natives!
Ooo-Ahh! The British traded African slaves from Arabs and forced them to work on their plantations!
Need any more? Solomon wasn't monogamous! Romans meted out the death penalty by crucifixion. And you wouldn't want to be accused of witchcraft or heresy during the years of Inquisition.

So, let's stick to the topics of today and discuss how we can change people's attitudes to one another. How we can eliminate Stone-Age ideas from today's interpretation of religious beliefs and spread the notion of tolerance across society.
Classism, Monotheism, Nationalism, Racism are but different faces of Crazy Intolerance.
 
sydboy007 said:
Don't really see the link to be honest.

The RC is looking into recent events where the actions of people can still be punished, where changes can be made to stop it occurring.

I do agree that in the west we seem to worry about offending others far too much. As long as issues are discussed in a factual manner I don't really care if someone chooses to be offended. It's when you get people making up stories that I draw the line.

Facts are reasonably easy to verify, stories tend to change depending on the target audience.
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Massive numbers of child marriages that are coming out in NSW recently.

Shame of our child brides: Court hears how woman was raped and beaten as it’s revealed hundreds are forced into arranged and unregistered marriages across NSW

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/shame-of-our-child-brides-court-hears-how-woman-was-raped-and-beaten-as-its-revealed-hundreds-are-forced-into-arranged-and-unregistered-marriages-across-nsw/story-fni0cx12-1226824176047
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Man ‘marries off daughter, 12’ in Islamic ceremony: bride believed sharia law ‘override’

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/man-marries-off-daughter-12-in-islamic-ceremony-bride-believed-sharia-law-override/story-fni0cx12-1226996078122
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Also

Prison for Afghan mullah who raped a 10-year-old girl inside his mosque

According to Sharia Law, which the Mullah tried to rely on in court, rape is considered a form of adultery for which both parties are responsible. Amin's defence lawyers argued that he should be sentenced to 100 lashes and then released – but that would have meant the girl also receiving the same punishment.

However, Judge Mohammad Suliman Rasuli slammed Amin's defence, pointing out that the victim "cannot commit adultery; she is a child. This is rape." Instead, the judge sentenced Amin to 20 years in prison.

http://www.cosmopolitan.co.uk/reports/news/a30751/prison-for-afghan-mullah-who-raped-a-10-year-old-girl-inside-his-mosque/
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