Religion IS crazy!

[SirRumpole]

I wouldn't jump to that conclusion, it's probably best to ask them why they are protesting.

I have no idea, I haven't taken any notice of it, they may think the people are innocent, and that's why they are protesting, who knows.

You seem to know more about it than me, why do you think they are protesting?

I've no idea why they are protesting, I'm simply asking your opinion on the comment (not made by me),

It is pretty obvious those 200 condone terrorism.....the sleeping logs are awake.

Do you think that is a bigoted statement or not ?

 

[Value Collector]

Do you think that is a bigoted statement or not ?

It could be, i guess it depends on the information he is using to come to that conclusion.

I read the article he linked, and it didn't say any of those 200 people had said they supported terrorism, it seemed they were angry because their homes had been raided or they felt their community was being unfairly targeted.

I would probably think that out of the 200 people, there are various reasons each person is feeling the need to protest, and if you were to assume it is because all 200 support terrorism you would probably be wrong.

Perhaps instead of asking me, you should be questioning the original poster why he made that statement, that would probably provide more clarity on whether it was based on bigotry.

 

[SirRumpole]

I would probably think that out of the 200 people, there are various reasons each person is feeling the need to protest, and if you were to assume it is because all 200 support terrorism you would probably be wrong.

No doubt. I wonder if it would be prudent for police to examine the tv broadcasts of the demonstrators and investigate their phone records to see if there are any links with radical elements, or should we just assume that they are innocent until they do something wrong ?

 

[noco]

I would probably think that out of the 200 people, there are various reasons each person is feeling the need to protest, and if you were to assume it is because all 200 support terrorism you would probably be wrong.

Did you hear any of them condemn the plot to blow up Parliament house.....did you hear them condemn those who plotted to enter Tony Abbotts private court yard.....did you hear any of them condemn how one of those radicals wanted to publicly behead an innocent person who may have been in the wrong place at the wrong time....did you hear them condemn the beheading of various journalist in the middle East......did you hear them condemn the son of one of the Australian radicals holding the head of a beheaded man.

None of the other 499,800 Muslims would protest against the wrong things these ISIS radicals are executing because of intimidation and fear for their lives.

No they were there protesting about how the Federal Police broke up there planned terrorism...they were caught red handed and they are embarrassed about it all because they believed they were smarter than the Feds, so they protest.

So if they don't condemn then they must condone.

If they don't like the way we operate our security well then I suggest to those protesters, go back home and practice you evil Sharia law there.

We are a peaceful nation and we don't need this type in our country...why should we live in fear for our lives with all this crap that is going on?


http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...ba-who-were-they/story-fnihslxi-1227064573689

 

[SirRumpole]

If they don't like the way we operate our security well then I suggest to those protesters, go back home and practice you evil Sharia law there.

Fine, if they were born overseas, send them back. If they were born here there is nothing we can do.

 

[noco]

Fine, if they were born overseas, send them back. If they were born here there is nothing we can do.

Oh yes we can.....if they do the wrong thing they will be locked up.

That head mufti was not born here.

Protest organiser, Hizb ut-Tahrir, is a Sunni Muslim organisation and those who attended the event included its Australian head, Sheik Ismail Al-Wahwah, who has in the past called for Australia to become an Islamic state ruled by sharia law.

We don't want Sharia law here thank you.

If they do not want to abide by our laws and rules.....if they do not want to assimilate into our community, then I say to them 6u99er off back to where you came.

 

[sydboy007]

Funny how the "liberals" who view religious education as a low priority tend to view teaching "values" more highly than the conservatives who want to pass on religious indoctrination. Strange that the Liberals want to teach children the value of empathy for others and helping others and tolerance, while conservatives view hard working religious obedient and well mannered children as more important.

http://qz.com/268014/the-very-different-child-rearing-habits-of-liberals-and-conservatives/

 

[Value Collector]

I wonder if it would be prudent for police to examine the tv broadcasts of the demonstrators and investigate their phone records to see if there are any links with radical elements, ?

If the police have a genuine suspicion about certain individuals, then I have no problem with them making discreet investigations, If they made public comments about certain people before conducting investigations, that would be wrong. Mud sticks, It would be the equivalent of accusing someone of being a paedophile before you even have any evidence.

or should we just assume that they are innocent until they do something wrong

Yes we ( you and me) should assume they are innocent until they are proven otherwise, or we have evidence that suggests wrong doing.

 

[SirRumpole]

Funny how the "liberals" who view religious education as a low priority tend to view teaching "values" more highly than the conservatives who want to pass on religious indoctrination. Strange that the Liberals want to teach children the value of empathy for others and helping others and tolerance, while conservatives view hard working religious obedient and well mannered children as more important.

http://qz.com/268014/the-very-different-child-rearing-habits-of-liberals-and-conservatives/

Very interesting.

These "little Conservatives" with so little empathy for others, little tolerance and virtually no creativity are going to grow up and some of them will end up in government deciding the lives of the rest of the population.

That explains a lot about the current government I think.

 

[Value Collector]

Did you hear any of them condemn the plot to blow up Parliament house.....did you hear them condemn those who plotted to enter Tony Abbotts private court yard.....did you hear any of them condemn how one of those radicals wanted to publicly behead an innocent person who may have been in the wrong place at the wrong time....did you hear them condemn the beheading of various journalist in the middle East......did you hear them condemn the son of one of the Australian radicals holding the head of a beheaded man.

None of the other 499,800 Muslims would protest against the wrong things these ISIS radicals are executing because of intimidation and fear for their lives.

No they were there protesting about how the Federal Police broke up there planned terrorism...they were caught red handed and they are embarrassed about it all because they believed they were smarter than the Feds, so they protest.

So if they don't condemn then they must condone.

If they don't like the way we operate our security well then I suggest to those protesters, go back home and practice you evil Sharia law there.

We are a peaceful nation and we don't need this type in our country...why should we live in fear for our lives with all this crap that is going on?


http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...ba-who-were-they/story-fnihslxi-1227064573689

Thats a pretty big logical fallacy you are making there,

Just because you haven't heard some one condemn something, does not mean they support it.

I haven't heard my elder neighbour condemn those plots yet either, do you think she supports terrorism?

People can protest police drug raids for many reason, it doesn't mean they support heroin trafficking. They may protest the drug raids if they think the people are innocent, if they thought they were unfairly targeted on racial grounds or if excessive force was used etc

 

[sails]

Thats a pretty big logical fallacy you are making there,

Just because you haven't heard some one condemn something, does not mean they support it.

I haven't heard my elder neighbour condemn those plots yet either, do you think she supports terrorism?

People can protest police drug raids for many reason, it doesn't mean they support heroin trafficking. They may protest the drug raids if they think the people are innocent, if they thought they were unfairly targeted on racial grounds or if excessive force was used etc

Hmmmm... if your neighbour made it known he belonged to the same group as those carrying out murderous atrocities you would think he would speak out if he didn't support such atrocities otherwise he risks being branded with the same brush. Pretty simple really.

You are not comparing apples with apples, imo

 

[Julia]

Funny how the "liberals" who view religious education as a low priority tend to view teaching "values" more highly than the conservatives who want to pass on religious indoctrination. Strange that the Liberals want to teach children the value of empathy for others and helping others and tolerance, while conservatives view hard working religious obedient and well mannered children as more important.

Very interesting.

These "little Conservatives" with so little empathy for others, little tolerance and virtually no creativity are going to grow up and some of them will end up in government deciding the lives of the rest of the population.

That explains a lot about the current government I think.

Vast generalisation, of course, plus the fact that you're quoting from America where the definition of "Liberal" is different from that which we understand in political terms here.

A liberal, in the American sense, is one who falls to the left in the political spectrum; In other parts of the world, however, liberalism is the belief in laissez-faire ...

Laissez-faire is an economic environment in which transactions between private parties are free from intrusive government restrictions, tariffs, and subsidies, ..

If you're going to ascribe characteristics to any side of politics, then it might be good to include such as economic management. Not much good having all the lofty aspirations if you haven't figured out how you're going to pay for them.

Hard to see what it has to do with the thread topic anyway.

 

[SirRumpole]

Vast generalisation, of course, plus the fact that you're quoting from America where the definition of "Liberal" is different from that which we understand in political terms here.

I was quite aware of what the term "liberal" meant in the context of the figures quoted; ie they would generally be Democrat voters in the US.

So I equate "Conservative" in this context with the Coalition and I see quite a few similarities between the approaches of our government and the values attributed to "Conservatives" in the US.

 

[Value Collector]

Hmmmm... if your neighbour made it known he belonged to the same group as those carrying out murderous atrocities you would think he would speak out if he didn't support such atrocities otherwise he risks being branded with the same brush. Pretty simple really.

You are not comparing apples with apples, imo

So i am right to assume that every catholic that has not made a public declaration that made it to the print of television media supports the molestation of children.

 

[SirRumpole]

So i am right to assume that every catholic that has not made a public declaration that made it to the print of television media supports the molestation of children.

We also don't see Catholics demonstrating on the streets about the Royal Commission, and calling it "discrimination" against Catholics.

 

[Julia]

So I equate "Conservative" in this context with the Coalition and I see quite a few similarities between the approaches of our government and the values attributed to "Conservatives" in the US.

My comment was directed more to syd and his disingenous posting of an American observation.

If you just label the government 'conservative' you are (I suppose intentionally given your Labor allegiance) aligning it with the worst aspects of conservatism, ie religious dogmatism, obsession with tradition etc., and ignoring the small 'l' liberal philosophy of encouraging people to make every effort to be self motivated, not to depend on the government to make decisions for them, and to discourage the nanny state so beloved of the more socialist philosophy.
It would just be good to have some objective recognition of the good and bad in both sides of politics rather than always pointing only to just a negative.

 

[SirRumpole]

My comment was directed more to syd and his disingenous posting of an American observation.

If you just label the government 'conservative' you are (I suppose intentionally given your Labor allegiance) aligning it with the worst aspects of conservatism, ie religious dogmatism, obsession with tradition etc., and ignoring the small 'l' liberal philosophy of encouraging people to make every effort to be self motivated, not to depend on the government to make decisions for them, and to discourage the nanny state so beloved of the more socialist philosophy.
It would just be good to have some objective recognition of the good and bad in both sides of politics rather than always pointing only to just a negative.

I actually think the Howard/Costello government was a good example of a Conservative government, up to the point when they gave in to their business backers and tried to bring in Workchoices.

It seems we are always going to swing between Left and Right in this country because both major parties represent sectional interests, business or unions and no one including Palmer or the Greens represents the average consumer.

So the choice rests with which sectional interest you would prefer to side with. The lesser evil for me is the unions. At least they represent people living in this country and not foreign shareholders. But yes this is off topic for this thread, but I've said it all before anyway.

 

[sydboy007]

Vast generalisation, of course, plus the fact that you're quoting from America where the definition of "Liberal" is different from that which we understand in political terms here.






If you're going to ascribe characteristics to any side of politics, then it might be good to include such as economic management. Not much good having all the lofty aspirations if you haven't figured out how you're going to pay for them.

Hard to see what it has to do with the thread topic anyway.

The point I was highlighting from the polling, and which you seem to have failed to understand, was that people who believe in teaching religious faith seem to not be interested in many of the "values" of the major faiths ie empathy for others, helping others and tolerance. Admittedly with it being a US poll the religious faith is likely to be Christian.

You were the one ascribing politics to it.

This is the religion is crazy thread, and the main thrust of why I posted the article was the inconsistency between teaching religious faith but then not seeing as important major components of that faith.

 

[noco]

This what Rudd and Gillard wanted......allow an influx of Muslims (50,000 in 5 years)to create dissension and division in the community.

What has happened at Maroochydore and Currumbin in the past couple of days gives a good indication of how the average Australian is reacting to the growth of Islam in Australia.

I am sure we will see more of these demonstration against Islam in the coming days, weeks, months and years.

Wake up Australia before it is too late.



http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...-at-maroochydore/story-fnihsrf2-1227064978766

 

[Value Collector]

We also don't see Catholics demonstrating on the streets about the Royal Commission, and calling it "discrimination" against Catholics.

Maybe not street protests, but I have heard lots of Catholics protesting through social media.

And if you want a direct correlation with terrorism, the was plenty of street protests in Northern Ireland, by Catholics, i doubt you could say they all supported the Ira.