QBE - QBE Insurance Group

[rossw]

love the fat finger trades just then

pushed the futures down and back 10 points in a few seconds too

 

[Euler]

It appears someone put in sell order of 500000 for 2c

Wonder if they'll still be there by day's end?

 

[Euler]

It appears someone put in sell order of 500000 for 2c

Wonder if they'll still be there by day's end?

lol ... and in addition ... 22 went through at .001 ... haven't see that on the depth in a long while.

..... all trades reversed off course!!

The buyers thought it was really Christmas in July

 

[michael_selway]

lol ... and in addition ... 22 went through at .001 ... haven't see that on the depth in a long while.

..... all trades reversed off course!!

The buyers thought it was really Christmas in July

hehe stupid TA traders! just j/k...

http://business.smh.com.au/business/error-wipes-qbe-out-20080730-3n7p.html

Error wipes QBE out
Email Print Normal font Large font AdvertisementMark Hawthorne, Chris Zappone
July 30, 2008 - 4:15PM

Hearts dropped as 85 points were wiped off the All Ordinaries Index and 82 points off the S&P/ASX200 in a flash this afternoon.

But it wasn't the market crash many have been fearing rather the result of a keyboard error from a broker selling QBE shares.

The broker sold a series of share parcels at between 0.1 cents and 0.2 cents per share at 2.20pm today, effectively taking the entire $20.2 billion market value of the global insurance giant out of the Australian Securities Exchange. QBE was trading at above $22.85 per share at the time.

Within minutes day traders had seized the opportunity, with many making offers to buy QBE at 0.2 cents per share.

The ASX immediately suspended QBE from trading to assess the situation.

Just nine minutes after the error was made the ASX's Governors Dispute Committee cancelled all trades in QBE at below $22.20 and the company returned to the boards.

"An error was made and it has been rectified,'' said ASX corporate relations manager Matthew Gibbs.

If you put in a selling price as low as 0.01 cents, for a stock trading at $22.85, it's fairly evident you will have a sudden and dramatic drop very quickly, Mr Gibbs said.

The Governors Dispute Committee is formed by senior brokers, market participants and one ASX representative.

"It was so clearly a mistake that (the committee) decided to cancel all trades at below $22.20. It's not the first time errors like this have happened, but they are very rare.''

"Because the price error was so drastic, it effectively removed the stock from the index," he said.

QBE Insurance had no comment on the market event.

Many stockbrokers said they recognised the plunge immediately as an error.

"There will be some red faces but the reality is there are human beings who push buttons," said Howard Elton of Intersuisse Stockbroking. "These things are accidental."

Mr Elton compared the gaffe to a pilot who overshoots a runway and lands a plane in the dirt. "It doesn't do his personal reputation anything great," he said.

czappone@fairfax.com.au

thx

MS

 

[Logique]

Phew, a narrow escape, for a moment I thought the stock was trading at .02 during the fat finger trade a week or two back

Financials are having a better time of it with domestic growth seeming to slow, and interest rate cuts up for discussion at the Reserve Bank. So for QBE, roll on $25 and then $26. He says hopefully.

 

[matt1987]

hi im just looking for some advice on the qbe dividend election plan. i am currently on this plan and when looking to do my 2008 tax return, i noticed that under qbe's div plan, you actually "forgo" your div's and instead are issued bonus shares at the value of the div you have forgone - this differs to a div reincetment plan, where you actually receive div's but the company issues new shares in consideration for the div.

the div election plan booklet says that the shares received are not subject to australian imputation (dividend) taxes. therefore, i am unsure of how this plan works from a tax perspective. it couldn't just be you're receiving new shares and you increase your cost base by the value of the new shares because in this circumstance you would still be receiving some form of "consideration" which would be tax free.

would greatly appreciate any advice in relation to this.

 

[pjthin]

hi im just looking for some advice on the qbe dividend election plan. i am currently on this plan and when looking to do my 2008 tax return, i noticed that under qbe's div plan, you actually "forgo" your div's and instead are issued bonus shares at the value of the div you have forgone - this differs to a div reincetment plan, where you actually receive div's but the company issues new shares in consideration for the div.

the div election plan booklet says that the shares received are not subject to australian imputation (dividend) taxes. therefore, i am unsure of how this plan works from a tax perspective. it couldn't just be you're receiving new shares and you increase your cost base by the value of the new shares because in this circumstance you would still be receiving some form of "consideration" which would be tax free.

would greatly appreciate any advice in relation to this.

hi,


The bonus shares are not dividends however they have a cost base of $nil so when you sell them you will have a capital gain for the market selling price. i.e. you can never make a capital loss on the sale of the bonus shares.

In some situations its actually better to use the DRP due to the franking credits. For example hypothetically:

if you have $45k salary no deductions etc. as your only taxable income, then at current income tax rates your marginal rate is 30%. You want to choose between a DRP or BSP:

DRP: assume dividend is 100% franked, then you essentially pay no tax as your marginal tax @ 30% is offset exactly by the franking credits received. No future tax liability re: dividends

BSP: you receives bonus shares instead. No taxable income for the year you receive it, but when you sell these bonus shares in the future you actually make a capital gain and are potentially liable for CGT

So in the above scenario you're better off with the DRP. Given that QBE's franking is generally around 20-60% you have to take that into consideration.

Hope that helps

 

[matt1987]

hi,


The bonus shares are not dividends however they have a cost base of $nil so when you sell them you will have a capital gain for the market selling price. i.e. you can never make a capital loss on the sale of the bonus shares.

In some situations its actually better to use the DRP due to the franking credits. For example hypothetically:

if you have $45k salary no deductions etc. as your only taxable income, then at current income tax rates your marginal rate is 30%. You want to choose between a DRP or BSP:

DRP: assume dividend is 100% franked, then you essentially pay no tax as your marginal tax @ 30% is offset exactly by the franking credits received. No future tax liability re: dividends

BSP: you receives bonus shares instead. No taxable income for the year you receive it, but when you sell these bonus shares in the future you actually make a capital gain and are potentially liable for CGT

So in the above scenario you're better off with the DRP. Given that QBE's franking is generally around 20-60% you have to take that into consideration.

Hope that helps

great, thanks very much for your help with that. was just what i was after

good point re the div election plan vs div reinvestment plan. qbe's drp is currently suspended so i suppose the dep is my only plan for non monetary dividends anyway.

cheers

matt

 

[Lachlan6]

QBE is grinding its way higher against the general market trend. At least that is one good sign, however I would expect this move higher to fail soon. It looks clearly part of a larger correction and certainly not a new impulse higher. It may be a good 'get out of jail free' card for those who bought in at higher levels, but one to watch for a possible entry once the wave (C) is complete for either a medium term trade or possibly longer term hold.

 

[Sean K]

QBE is grinding its way higher against the general market trend. At least that is one good sign, however I would expect this move higher to fail soon.

Well picked Lachlan.

Fell over at $28 resistance.

$20 ish zone look pretty solid for now though.

 

[Bin57again]

QBE's trading halt due to acquisitions - will the stock open higher or lower? Is there a general rule (e.g. the acquisitions show strong balance sheet)? I bought near 22 but this has caught me off guard...I've set a stop just below 21...any ideas/comments?

 

[TheAbyss]

QBE's trading halt due to acquisitions - will the stock open higher or lower? Is there a general rule (e.g. the acquisitions show strong balance sheet)? I bought near 22 but this has caught me off guard...I've set a stop just below 21...any ideas/comments?

the instos got it at $20.50 so thats where this will go IMO. In the short term it might go a bit below that but will bounce back to $20.50 then some evaluation will take place for a while. Longer term my opinion is that it will work for QBE but i have no real data to work with. Most of the insurers appear to have come out of the credit issues pretty well. The issue for them is where will they show growth in the future? QBE are acting on this buy buying up some business and it is a good thing IMO.


The last company that did a placement was IPL at $2.50 a few weeks ago which sold units at a discount to current SP and the SP retreated to the $2.50 in a week or so after that, then retreated further, circa $2.25 ish before rebounding and hovering at the $2.50-$2.60 range where it is now give or take some cents.

 

[hotbmw]

if the US$ severely depreciates in the coming year or so, how much of QBE's income is derived from the US?

Is it significant? 10%? 20%?

I remember a month or so back they invested into the US market again.

Any concerns here by current shareholders?

 

[johenmo]

if the US$ severely depreciates in the coming year or so, how much of QBE's income is derived from the US?

Is it significant? 10%? 20%?

I remember a month or so back they invested into the US market again.

Any concerns here by current shareholders?

Nett Earned Premium for HY 6/08 is $5108m, of which "Americas" = 34% ($1469), Oz=26%, AP = 5% and Europe = 36%. Report states "stronger" Aus Dollar impacted on this. I don't have any info of recent times. I hold small parcel. Bought into recent raising but will watch closely as original purchase is green (only one).

 

[S73417H]

What are peoples expectations for QBE shares after the $225m share allocation takes place on the 20th?

 

[S73417H]

What are peoples expectations for QBE shares after the $225m share allocation takes place on the 20th?

So given today's QBE share prices, I'm gathering peoples' expectations were not good!!

Fingers crossed they will rise soon.

 

[cutz]

So given today's QBE share prices, I'm gathering peoples' expectations were not good!!

Fingers crossed they will rise soon.

Hi S73417H,

There hasn't really been anything negative come out if QBE lately, it's run up quite a bit off its lows so I’m assuming it may be traders banking profits.

Personally I’m waiting for my allocation to come through so I can sell it off as I can’t stand odd lots. As for the main lot I’m still comfortable hanging on for the ride.

 

[S73417H]

I must admit, over the past month or so I have been very disappointed with QBE's performance. I was hoping for a small recovery by now after the shares were diluted by the recent release.

 

[tge oracle]

Re: QBE - Very impressive

Although having been a very long term shareholder in QBE I haven't posted on this company in the past but tonights results have compelled me to congartulate the management of this company for delivering once again at a time when almost everybody was expecting dissapointment during the most difficult periods in my investing lifetime. I only wish all of my investments will achieve the same consistency with results and possess the same quality management as QBE. It is my ideal investment i.e. one that I will never sell!

 

[S73417H]

Re: QBE - Very impressive

Although having been a very long term shareholder in QBE I haven't posted on this company in the past but tonights results have compelled me to congartulate the management of this company for delivering once again at a time when almost everybody was expecting dissapointment during the most difficult periods in my investing lifetime. I only wish all of my investments will achieve the same consistency with results and possess the same quality management as QBE. It is my ideal investment i.e. one that I will never sell!

I second that. The 2008 financial report was excellent. I am very happy that I bought my second lot at 19.80. Looking forward to the future.