Israel in the Gaza Strip

awg said:

The footage I saw showed them getting seriously iron-barred.

If you attack commandos in that way, they open fire.

stray bullets would have wounded many

The fault lies higher up, operation was flawed, and screwed up

Click to expand...

In the dead of night and in international waters, you are boarded by boat and helicopter by people with guns. Exactly what other outcome did those ordering the mission and those planning it (the commandos themselves) expect? Shooting people because they have iron bars or knives or whatever, when you invade their ships is not justifiable at all. It's time for Israel to be cut loose.

doctorj said:

In the dead of night and in international waters, you are boarded by boat and helicopter by people with guns. Exactly what other outcome did those ordering the mission and those planning it (the commandos themselves) expect? Shooting people because they have iron bars or knives or whatever, when you invade their ships is not justifiable at all. It's time for Israel to be cut loose.

Click to expand...

Exactly, when the Somalis do it, it is piracy. No difference with Israel. The Paliestinans throw stones, Israel responds with F16's. Israel has become a pariah state - the US remains its only strong supporter

Killed flotilla protestors expressed desire for martyrdom

so you've got a bunch of hamas followers and associated jihadists teaming up with bleeding heart lefties to run the blockade at gaza, despite the fact hamas is a proscribed terrorist organisation, openly declares their intentions to ethnically cleanse palestine of the jews and has also been blockaded by egypt on the other side.

so the flotilla approaches gaza, ignores israeli requests to dock in a nearby port where the convoy can be searched for weapons and then the aid distributed, and keeps going to run the blockade.

israel responds with heli-commandos, the people on the boat mob them while armed with metal bars, knives, slingshots, molotovs and modified paintball guns, so the commandos return fire.


here's a little clip about some of the "peace activists". Khaibar was a massacre of jews committed by mohammed in between plundering treasure, raping women, enslaving children etc. etc. for those interested

right now we have one of two happy endings, martyrdom or we reach gaza

Click to expand...

so how would you deal with people who express that kind of ideology? we hate you, we want to kill you all, we will not negotiate and we are happy to die for our cause.

hey maybe more talks will do the trick?

disarray said:

so how would you deal with people who express that kind of ideology? we hate you, we want to kill you all, we will not negotiate and we are happy to die for our cause.

Click to expand...

I wonder what prompted such strong emotions?

disarray said:

so how would you deal with people who express that kind of ideology? we hate you, we want to kill you all, we will not negotiate and we are happy to die for our cause.

hey maybe more talks will do the trick?

Click to expand...

Which side are you talking about?

wayneL said:

I wonder what prompted such strong emotions?

Click to expand...

Islam maybe?

doctorj said:

Which side are you talking about?

Click to expand...

ummmm i'm going to go with the one that encourages their kids to blow themselves up

I will be most interested to hear from the journos on board, especially the to Oz ones.

I dont know whether they or their employer are apologists for either side, but i will place more store on their accounts than on propoganda from other parties involved in this incident.

I consider myself relatively impartial in that I am neither for or against either side.

Just like any neigbours, you have to accomodate each other, or attempt to win the ensuing war, and as neither party can do that imo, dont know whats next

disarray said:

ummmm i'm going to go with the one that encourages their kids to blow themselves up

Click to expand...

Actually every Muslim scholar who counts forbids suicide.
http://seekersguidance.org/blog/201...nd-all-forms-of-terrorism-shaykh-tahir-qadri/

I am sure there are extremist Christians and Jews in the world. The difference is the Palestinians are really pissed off for some reason (God knows why??) and some people claiming to be scholars are misleading their people to get their way.

Gaza: the world's biggest Monroe Box.

Monroe: It's a special isolation chamber. The subject pulls levers to receive food and water. The floor can become electrified, and showers of icy water randomly fall on the subject. I call it... The Monroe Box!

Grampa: Uh huh. Sounds interesting. How much will it cost to build?

Monroe: Oh, that's the beauty part! It's already built! I need the money to buy a baby to raise in the box until the age of thirty.

Grampa: What are you trying to prove?

Monroe: Well, my theory is that the subject will be socially maladjusted and will harbor a deep resentment towards me.

Grampa: Mm. Interesting.

skcots said:

Actually every Muslim scholar who counts forbids suicide.
http://seekersguidance.org/blog/201...nd-all-forms-of-terrorism-shaykh-tahir-qadri/

Click to expand...

one islamic scholar hardly counts as "every scholar who counts". anyway this seems to be little more than his opinion, with minimal reference to primary sources, fuzzy wording and bearing little relation at all to either the reality of practiced islam or the historical activities of mohammed ("the perfect human" and fan of rape, paedophilia, mass murder and banditry). some quotes from it ...

There is no gainsaying the fact that the Muslims on the whole oppose and condemn terrorism in unequivocal terms and are not ready to accept it even as remotely related to Islam in any manner. However, a negligible minority amongst them seems to give it a tacit support

Click to expand...

recent british figures suggest up to 20% of muslims are sympathetic with suicide bombers, while 5 - 9% proactively support suicide bombers which means there are around 150,000 people IN ENGLAND who think murdering civilians in the name of islam is a good thing. that's hardly negligable. given hamas openly advocates genocide as a policy aim you'd think it possible that the palestinians who voted for them would support terrorism too.

Thus, the Western policies are instrumental in producing and inducting new potential terrorist recruits and workforce, with no end in sight.

Click to expand...

once again the role of islamic doctrine is completely whitewashed and blame placed firmly on the west for their "bad policy".

It has been proven in the second chapter of this document through dozens of Quranic verses and Prophetic traditions that the mass killing of Muslims and perpetration of terrorism are not only unlawful and forbidden in Islam but also denote the rejection of faith.... Scores of Quranic verses and Prophetic traditions have proved that massacre of Muslims and terrorism is unlawful in Islam; rather, they are blasphemous acts.

Click to expand...

*cough* how about jews? hindus? christians? buddhists maybe? followers of these religions are all right now, at this very moment, on the receiving end of islamic butchery in the sudan, nigeria, egypt, israel, thailand, the philippines etc. etc. click here for a list of current conflicts and see if you can spot the most common denominator. (hint: it's islam)

The rights of non-Muslim citizens enjoy the same sanctity as those of Muslim citizens in an Islamic state. There is no difference between them as human beings

Click to expand...

this is rubbish, history is full of examples of the jizya (kaffir tax) being placed on non-muslims in muslim state. even spain, held up by many apologists to be a shining light of progress and muslim / kaffir harmony underwent a period where jews and christians were forced to pay the jizya AND wear badges of apes and pigs on their clothing (sounds very germany 1939). those christians in saudi arabia sure are enjoying their religious freedom!

let's not even mention the subordinate role muslim women play in their very own society (honour killings, divorce proceedings, quaranic attitudes to female iq and worth, the burqa and so on)

skcots said:

I am sure there are extremist Christians and Jews in the world. The difference is the Palestinians are really pissed off for some reason (God knows why??) and some people claiming to be scholars are misleading their people to get their way.

Click to expand...

you're also missing the difference where christian and jewish extremists aren't butchering people all over the world in the name of their religion.

here's a photo of a protest at sydney town hall the other night (they're very well internationally co-ordinated these muslim protestors, whether its the recent push at the UN to legitimise "ritual nicking" - a "benign" form of female genital circumcision / mutilation or protesting for palestine)

point of interest the flags in the photo - The black flag is the Black Flag of Jihad. The white flag is the flag of the Caliphate, or the Islamic Empire, where we have to live as slaves, convert or die. i'm thrilled to have such multicultural richness in my city!

disarray said:

israel responds with heli-commandos, the people on the boat mob them while armed with metal bars, knives, slingshots, molotovs and modified paintball guns, so the commandos return fire.

Click to expand...

Get your story correct unless you want your argument to be in "disarray".

It was the Israeli commandos that were carrying the "paintball rifles" together with their back up "real" pistols.

Israeli commandos 'carried paintball guns'
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/06/01/2915586.htm

Israel is in the wrong, and Disarray wants to give them a pat them on the back.

Macquack said:

It was the Israeli commandos that were carrying the "paintball rifles" together with their back up "real" pistols.

Click to expand...

yeah be sure to MASSIVELY BOLD ONE SINGLE THING OUT OF VARIOUS POSTS, POINTS AND REFERENCES WHILE IGNORING EVERYTHING ELSE!!!1

actually it supports the israeli actions anyway, they swapped assault rifles for paintball guns to minimise civilian casualities. you're not a fan of tasers then i gather? here, have a video of flotilla protestors preparing to attack the israeli boarders

Macquack said:

Get your story correct unless you want your argument to be in "disarray".

Click to expand...

clever. so original and clever in fact it hasn't even been used before in this very thread when someone had to latch onto a trivial point because they were too lazy / ignorant to argue the relevant points and references presented. kudos to you. hack.

Machack said:

Israel is in the wrong, and Disarray wants to give them a pat them on the back.

Click to expand...

i don't recall cheering israel on. what i do is come in and refute the emotional bleating ("omg poor palestine! evil israel!") the bleeding heart brigade present anytime something significant in this stupid, convoluted and never ending issue occurs.

btw "the turkish charity group behind the flotilla has "clear and longstanding ties to terrorism and jihad"

but don't let the facts get in the way of some righteous indignation.

anyway the israelis did screw up bigtime .... see attached pic.

Disarray,

What is your prescription for solving this problem?

disarray said:

so you've got a bunch of hamas followers and associated jihadists teaming up with bleeding heart lefties to run the blockade at gaza

Click to expand...

Nine of those "bleeding heart lefties" are dead and many more are actually "bleeding" at the hands of your oppressing jewish mates.

Show some respect for humanity.

wayneL said:

Disarray,

What is your prescription for solving this problem?

Click to expand...

a reformation of islam. i won't hold my breath.

Machack said:

Show some respect for humanity

Click to expand...

.... define humanity?

disarray said:

.... define humanity?

Click to expand...

Not killing your fellow man is a good starting point.

Here's a well written article from Peter Hitchens of the The Daily Mail

The Joys of Selective Outrage

wayneL said:

Here's a well written article from Peter Hitchens of the The Daily Mail

The Joys of Selective Outrage

Click to expand...

Good article there.

Lenin's useful idiots analogy is apt here - the radical left.

Garpal Gumnut said:

I have met many Israelis and many Palestinians in my time, and much prefer the Israelis.

The Palestinians are a dreadfully tribal people, riven by petty hatred for the outside world and for other Palestinians. Israelis make good friends and loyalty is their strong point.

That is just my experience of them both.

....gg

Click to expand...

This is my experience too.

There is possibity that Israelis are so secretive that they do not allow their true feelings be exposed, but have my doubts if it is possible to pretend for years or decades.

Happy said:

This is my experience too.

There is possibity that Israelis are so secretive that they do not allow their true feelings be exposed, but have my doubts if it is possible to pretend for years or decades.

Click to expand...

Clarification - Is it possible you and GG are referring to Jewish people here?

I know lots of Jews (and agree about the above mention virtues), but have come across very very few actual Israelis.