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Israel in the Gaza Strip

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MS+Tradesim said:
religion is involved in around 7% of conflicts out of 1763 surveyed cases.
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Interesting. I'm not familiar with the work. But off the top of my head I would say it would depend on how you defined "involvement".

Can't you include WWI? Both sides with god on theirs?

WWII? Wasn't the Final Solution an attempt to eradicate Jewry? Had it been successful, it would also have practically eradicated an entire religion.
 
Hamas are not dumb they know they can fire rockets into Israel and once the Israelis get fed up and strike back the whole world will back up the Palestinians like they have and are doing now. Personally I am sick and tired of hearing how bad Israel is.

The whole thing is a massive mess, you can't deal with Hamas as they are dedicated to the destruction of Isreal. You have a right to defend yourself from attack but on the other hand I do feel sorry for the poor Palestinian people caught up in this. Then there is the point of these poor people voting in a group like Hamas. So what did they think would happen when it was one missile to many into Israel.

On top of this it's the militants that started it people not Israel.

What would be perfect is take all the Palestinian civilians out and like Isreal take out the rubbish with a hail of missals. Then bring them back and start building the place together.

all I can say, is it's sad.
 
wayneL said:
Whiskers,

Palestine has never had that luxury from the Zionists, who continue to be oppressive. We can condemn the behaviour of Hamas etc, but at the same time, we must understand the motivations for it. Hamas is first and foremost a social movement, and second a guerrilla movement. We call them terrorists.

But if they are terrorists, then we must accept that the French/Dutch/Norwegian/etc resistance were also terrorists, as were the early Zionists (and can be argued still are).
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And don't forget the IRA!!!
 
wayneL said:
No you're wrong. I'm under no illusion about Hamas. But I think that they probably would not exist if Israel had behaved differently.
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Apart from the point that the English and others dumped the Jews in that area.

What would you do is you were attacked from all sides after just being nearly exterminated.

I will tell you if I was a Jewish person after that I would not take S.H.I.T from any one that started up with me.
 
That site that disarray pointed us to (the anti-Muslim one):

http://www.faithfreedom.org/

It's full of much hatred for Islam but Ali Sina, whose site it is and whose mantra is "Welcome to Faith Freedom International, We are against hate, not faith..." has this to say about Barack Obama:

The fact that Obama is a crook can be easily established by studying this man’s life, words and deeds. Most people did not do any research about him. Truth is not that difficult to find. Your argument is very much like Muslims saying, wait until we die and then we will know the truth. That is not rational. We can find the truth if we open our eyes. This man will be the worst president America has ever had. How can I be so sure? Because I made a lot of research into the life if this scumbag. The usurper will destroy America. If a president was picked by lottery, the chances are that that person would have been far better than (that) bum. Now you have my words in black and white on this site. I would not make such a claims if I was not 100% sure.
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http://www.faithfreedom.org/2009/01/10/cindy-dry-is-an-ex-muslim/#comments #17

He's not my cuppa tea either, but I sure wouldn't denigrate the man thus:

http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/obama/future.html

No wonder he finds it so easy to bag Mohammad. Everyone is a psychopath except Ali. Having said that, I'm no follower of anything Islam has to offer, except some of the poetry.

But can't we all get along?
 
disarray said:
hi, this isn't about christianity, this is about islam.

so what? last i looked neither of them spawned a religion with 1 billion adherents that is responsible for 12,561 terror attacks since 9/11. do try to be relevant.

there is tons of media around with people yelling "allah ackbar" then i think maybe islam is relevant to the discussion.

look to you and rowie, i've made my points about the evils of islam perfectly clear, i have yet to see 1 argument from any of you refuting the charges that mohammed was a paedophile, a rapist, a mass murderer and general all round psychopath.

p.s. the points don't come from billy graham or the kkk, they come from arab ex-muslims. maybe they are racist??
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well you compared violent islam to peaceful christianity.

most german aircraft and tanks bombing other christians had crosses on them. heinrich himmler and other SS proudly wore their iron crosses whilst sending jews and others to the gas chambers.

SS officers celebrated christmas mass in auschwitz. many invoked the name of jesus whilst committing terrible atocities. not that different from hamas. except hamas does not have the same capabilities to inflict harm.

i am not mohammads lawyer. i am not here to defend a man that died 1000 years ago. i wil note that he was never convicted of any of the charges you accuse him of. i would say mohammed was no worse then any medieval pope.

as for paedophelia... lol... look at the church today if you are so worried abot that kind of stuff.
 
MS+Tradesim said:
Rubbish.

Phillips and Axelrod in the Encyclopedia of Wars shows that religion is involved in around 7% of conflicts out of 1763 surveyed cases. 50% of those religious conflicts involved Islam.

Further, the democide project shows that by far, secular states (particularly of the 20thC, where incidentally, religion was marginalised) are responsible for killing more people than any other ideology.

Historically, somewhere in the order of 2% or so of deaths by mass atrocity have a religious basis.
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it all depends on how you measure it. nice try though.

but hear this..... people baptised chritian have been responsible, directly or indirectly for more deaths on planet earth then any other group of people ever. their biggets victims.... other christians... before you continue to deny it... do your maths first and do a body count from year 1300 to now.

if you dont know history, just do the last 300 years. or even the last 100 years.

muslims dont even come close. they try... but dont come close.
 
slim pickins said:
well you compared violent islam to peaceful christianity.

most german aircraft and tanks bombing other christians had crosses on them. heinrich himmler and other SS proudly wore their iron crosses whilst sending jews and others to the gas chambers.

SS officers celebrated christmas mass in auschwitz. many invoked the name of jesus whilst committing terrible atocities. not that different from hamas. except hamas does not have the same capabilities to inflict harm.

i am not mohammads lawyer. i am not here to defend a man that died 1000 years ago. i wil note that he was never convicted of any of the charges you accuse him of. i would say mohammed was no worse then any medieval pope.

as for paedophelia... lol... look at the church today if you are so worried abot that kind of stuff.
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As an atheist I can at aleast recognise that what a minority do is not representative of the entire religion, just like all buddhists probably don't not eat meat. But on pedophelia I am sure there would be more non clergy pedophiles than clergy so let's not over dramatise.

Why not comment on the religion thread or start a new one. Let's get back to the thread topic. Hamas attacks Israel.
 
It's Snake Pliskin said:
Why not comment on the religion thread or start a new one. Let's get back to the thread topic. Hamas attacks Israel.
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well id rather pick nits out of a monkeys back then discuss the finer points of theology, i just wanted to debunk somone promoting one violent religion over another violent religion.
 
Well, I'll go out on a limb - what we are discussing in this thread is at bottom the Islamisation of the West and the rights and wrongs of Israel doing something about it.
 
lucas said:
Well, I'll go out on a limb - what we are discussing in this thread is at bottom the Islamisation of the West and the rights and wrongs of Israel doing something about it.
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i think you will find that israel has little to do with islamicasation of the west.
that is a trend started by the abolition of racist immigration policies in the west.

you will find that israel will be attacked by the arabs, whetehr they are islamic, christian, secular, atheist, or belong to the karbala sect.

anyone that feels they have had their land taken from them will hit back. and rightly so..

its just that i feel if you have lost fair and square and someone is offeirng you a decent piece of land as a concession when they dont really need to.... you shoudl take it
 
slim pickins said:
anyone that feels they have had their land taken from them will hit back. and rightly so..
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Christians and jews had their laand taken from them by Islamofascists starting 1000+ years ago - are you supporting all out war to reclaim their oil rich birth rights then ?

:eek:
 
numbercruncher said:
Christians and jews had their laand taken from them by Islamofascists starting 1000+ years ago - are you supporting all out war to reclaim their oil rich birth rights then ?

:eek:
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Interesting historical discussion on who was there first, and who has right to the land.

I think before Israel was given Palestine; the Arabs, Romans, Ottomans, Egyptians, Phoenicians, Akkanians, and even Sumerians held it for most of the past 4000 years. The Canaanites/Israelites held it for a certain period too. Drawing back the clock to see who rightfully deserves this section of the world is practically impossible. Thus, the little dramas occurring now and then. I can't see a solution until humans start learning to share their backyard, religion is wiped from the region, or one side annihilates the other.
 
It's Snake Pliskin said:
Here is a good article on what Israel did in peace and as an act of goodwill.
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinion/394573_murdockonline03.html
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Hamas rockets blew away Gaza opportunity
DEROY MURDOCK

"...Now, watch us flourish. A Gazan MLK could have asked J.P. Morgan Chase to help construct the Middle East's most modern financial system."

That statement is a laugh.

This guy Murdock should stick to his syndicated column posturings and not embarrass himself with economic forecasts based on Ponzi schemes.
 
numbercruncher said:
Christians and jews had their laand taken from them by Islamofascists starting 1000+ years ago - are you supporting all out war to reclaim their oil rich birth rights then ?

:eek:
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i dont really understand you. was it the christians or the jews that had their lans stolen? because when the christians conquered the "holy lands" they promptly massaced the jews livign there. especially in jerusalem.

when the muslims took it back, the jews didnt really care becasue they were all dead. and there were no jews in the holy lands until the muslims allowed them back in.

they all lived there together until the next time the crusaders conqured it and massacred everyone.

so you see when you say "christins and jews" had their land taken... you arent being really honest to us on this forum. this was never an alliance.

jews took it in 1948 and have been pretty fair in dealing with it. 20% of israel is arab of various religions. all living very happily together.

both islamic and christian fundamentalists would just love ww3 to be fought over this land. and would love israel to be wiped out so the messiah could come back. :cautious:

i just think they should live in peace and share the land
 

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