Islam: Is it inherently Evil?

[qldfrog]

Welcome back Luutzu, in full strenght I can see;
How was the paradise of cultural mixity Europe?
Any more clue on how to answer the title of this thread?

 

[luutzu]

Welcome back luu. Have a good trip ? Hows life OS, does it make you want to emigrate ?

Thanks SirR.

Trip is very different with three toddlers. I've lived through that Home Alone scene a few times over on this one trip - a miracle didn't leave any kid behind Man I've rode mopeds in Phuket and all the major VNese cities, but travelling with kids and deadlines bring panic to a new level.

Australia is definitely the place to be for me. Won't be emigrating anywhere. And that's not just the light wallet and old age talking either. We're quite lucky here in Australia. So glad to be home.

 

[luutzu]

Welcome back Luutzu, in full strenght I can see;
How was the paradise of cultural mixity Europe?
Any more clue on how to answer the title of this thread?

Thanks qldfrog.

I didn't mix much with the barbarians in Europe so don't know. Got shortchanged a few times by the (white) French though but thought I shouldn't think all French businesses are like that

Seriously, I bought 4 Grande (large) coffee at a station to go... when we managed to start drinking we found they're all at slightly above half the size of their cup.

The Africans around the Eiffel Tower flogging touristsy merchandise I thought was cool - managed to buy off of them bucketloads of Eiffel models for less than the price of one I saw in a souvenir shop nearby

Probably best not to buy bottled water from the other (Arab Muslims?)... Was at a park and saw two of them at a tap doing something with buckets of their water bottles. They might be just filling up the bucket to mix the ice around the bottles, but didn't want to stare at entrepreneurs doing their enterprising stuff


It is a beautiful city though. Great architecture. I like the standard fascade you guys got going for the blocks... stayed behind one of them and it's a bit tight though. Reminds me a lot of VN, ahem... Though I think the French have lost their coffee skill while VN still has its unique coffee taste of the old era.

------

Maybe we were staying close to the city but the prices on everything seems a bit high. Not sure how ordinary French people could afford it. I mean, we eat out in Sydney once a while and would be paying half the price for similar meals.

Saw more than a few beggars and homeless people in and around Paris. So yea, I'd be pretty upset seeing how the country and its people are living.

But if you look at the real reason behind the decline, it's not because of illegals and Muslims. Continuous wars everywhere; ever more generous tax breaks for the rich and corporations... something got to give and since it ain't peace or trickle down economics, the poor and working class have to pay - paid with both reduced benefits to themselves and increasing taxation to pay for those imperial/neocon policies.

It's probably harder to see that since we would think that France, or any country, was rich and the political system and politicians have always been doing what they have. That since the only obvious change are the new faces and barbaric ways our civilised societies have to go bomb and liberate... It's understandable. But not true.

Anyway, that's for another day.

 

[SirRumpole]

So glad to be home.

You are a true Australian sir.

 

[luutzu]

You are a true Australian sir.

Woohoo

Lucky country this. Let's not screw it up. Canberra here I come. ha ha Maybe Canterbury City Council or something.

 

[qldfrog]

The green plague has struck again.The western civilisation is doomed if it persists in its denial.

 

[dutchie]

Dozens dead as vehicle crashed into crowd in Nice, France

At least 80 people, including several children have been killed according to the French Interior Minister Bernard Cazeneuve. At least 18 are in a critical condition.

http://www.news.com.au/world/europe...e/news-story/5a9cca970737255f6fd82a6a4d840946

When are we going to stop all muslim immigration ?

 

[CanOz]

When are we going to stop all muslim immigration ?

That, my friend is exactly what IS want...All out war.

 

[luutzu]

That, my friend is exactly what IS want...All out war.

To win wars, you do exactly what the enemy wants you to. That's the thinking behind our "War on Terror".

It'd be funny if our very own lives aren't at risk because of these politicians.

It's upsetting to see what terrorists do to us... but that you can kind of explain away because that's what enemies do.

What really screws with your head is that the leaders we entrust our security to are making things worst - are causing insecurity and danger to us.

I'm sick of our own leadership giving empty words about "thoughts and prayers" with the victims family; then rant about evil terrorists; then fake their anger and act all heroic by sending more jets over to "avenge" us.

It's so freaking predictable.

 

[CanOz]

I tell you what, i find myself getting super observant in crowds...at times i think 'wow, what a perfect place for some kind of terror event'...

On the positive side i guess i'm alert to it, but man have they (the sick, lost souls that do this sh**) managed to change us.

 

[SirRumpole]

I reckon a lot of people who voted for Brexit are now even more glad that they did, and people who didn't vote for Brexit are secretly relieved that it got through.

Mind you, I think the damage has already been done in Britain.

 

[luutzu]

I reckon a lot of people who voted for Brexit are now even more glad that they did, and people who didn't vote for Brexit are secretly relieved that it got through.

Mind you, I think the damage has already been done in Britain.

They might be glad, but doesn't mean they're right.

Come on now... let's not lose our sense of rationality.

The anger is justified, but think about it... if Islam or Muslim is the cause, we'd be witnessing these kind of terrorism every single day, maybe a few times a day seeing how there are more than a few Muslims around us.

The kind of "solution" and nonsense our media and politicians are feeding us will either bankrupt or corrupt us, or both.

We've been waging warS on terror for a while now. Doesn't seem like it's working. So double and triple down on it... or give peace a chance, as some English dude once sing about.

I and other Asians can't wait til China start a couple of wars with the West... by the sound of things, we'd be in some camp somewhere outback.

 

[SirRumpole]

if Islam or Muslim is the cause,

So it's just a coincidence that all these terrorists are Muslims ?

Fair suck of the sauce mate !

 

[Wysiwyg]

The kind of "solution" and nonsense our media and politicians are feeding us will either bankrupt or corrupt us, or both.

We've been waging warS on terror for a while now. Doesn't seem like it's working. So double and triple down on it... or give peace a chance, as some English dude once sing about.

One reality could be like the IRA (RIRA) situation in which there is a constant running battle with the British. Push me shove you, tit for tat type of mentality. The Islamic extremist movement needs impressionable (suicidal tendency preferable) recruits to do the dirty work. As one dies another replaces them. The extremists talk about the invaders and the infidels. They probably mean Bush and company. Bush(s) in retirement while the consequences perpetuate. Tossers.

 

[Boggo]

One reality could be like the IRA (RIRA) situation in which there is a constant running battle with the British. Push me shove you, tit for tat type of mentality.

A clue, if the pommy invaders had Brexit all of Ireland 100 years ago the problem wouldn't exist today.
Now what is the battle issue again

 

[luutzu]

So it's just a coincidence that all these terrorists are Muslims ?

Fair suck of the sauce mate !

Not as much of a coincidence as the Middle East being "liberated" and "democratized" because it has a lot of oil.

When we invade another and colonise their country, what do we expect to happen? That they'd just bow down and suck it up?

Then when we expand that to now droning over 7 Islamic/Middle Eastern countries; occupying and waging war on some 5 of them; arming and supporting brutal regimes (Saudi Arabia, Israel), overthrowing democratically elected gov't (Egypt recently)... it is hard for people to not see that we're waging wars on Islam and Muslims.

Don't get me wrong, I'm in no way justifying terrorism and violence. Just that if we want this kind of atrocity to end, we better open our eyes and demand "our leaders" get their head out of warmongers and profiteers azz and start give us honest talks and real solutions.

Read a bit of what Hollande said right after the attack; or what Trump and Clinton said... that we will be smarter and tougher, we will not back down. Then France is going to send their jets for a few more sorties.

Have "we" been soft on terrorists? Are there targets in the ME and at home where we know a terrorist is hiding but thought not to bomb them, not until this latest tragedy? Now that they kill more of our people, we're going to do it?

So over the next few days, France and allies is going to bomb a few sites somewhere in the ME. And if we follow the logic - that we have been at war and if there are known terrorists or some potential terrorist we'd bomb them already - then what we'd be doing is killing more innocent people, people around targets we thought weren't warrant a few tomahawk and hellfire... until now.

 

[luutzu]

One reality could be like the IRA (RIRA) situation in which there is a constant running battle with the British. Push me shove you, tit for tat type of mentality. The Islamic extremist movement needs impressionable (suicidal tendency preferable) recruits to do the dirty work. As one dies another replaces them. The extremists talk about the invaders and the infidels. They probably mean Bush and company. Bush(s) in retirement while the consequences perpetuate. Tossers.

Heard from Democracy Now that since France declare martial law (state of emergency) from last November's attack, they have conducted something like 3000 raids - mostly, if not all, on Muslim communities.

Of those 3000 raids, only 6 arrest/charges are laid.

In the US, there's Trump... then there's Newt Ginrich saying all Muslim should be looked at, and if they believe in Sharia Law then they need to be deported.

Watch what one former CIA analyst (Michael Scherer?) said was Bin Laden's plans from 911 and see how insane it is that our "best and brightest" in power are walking right into his trap. Wars everywhere abroad, further impoverishing the people at home, alienating minorities and increasing the chances of their recruiting among us.

 

[Gringotts Bank]

Idealism is dangerous - that's my conclusion.

The Idealism being pursued by Western politicians worldwide is: "be open and accepting of all". Such a mantra is better as an aim, not a way of life. This is the critical error they have made.

Growth towards such an aim means that sometimes expansion/openness/acceptance is the right way, and sometimes contraction/closure/judgment/rejection is the right way forward.

If you're holding a house party, do you advertise it on social media? Sure you do... if you want your house completely trashed. As you clean up the next day and assess the enormous damage, you can console yourself that you are open and accepting of all. Not too concerned about the impact on the neighbours, you can rest easy that you are a "good person".

 

[wayneL]

Not as much of a coincidence as the Middle East being "liberated" and "democratized" because it has a lot of oil.

When we invade another and colonise their country, what do we expect to happen? That they'd just bow down and suck it up?

Then when we expand that to now droning over 7 Islamic/Middle Eastern countries; occupying and waging war on some 5 of them; arming and supporting brutal regimes (Saudi Arabia, Israel), overthrowing democratically elected gov't (Egypt recently)... it is hard for people to not see that we're waging wars on Islam and Muslims.

Don't get me wrong, I'm in no way justifying terrorism and violence. Just that if we want this kind of atrocity to end, we better open our eyes and demand "our leaders" get their head out of warmongers and profiteers azz and start give us honest talks and real solutions.

Read a bit of what Hollande said right after the attack; or what Trump and Clinton said... that we will be smarter and tougher, we will not back down. Then France is going to send their jets for a few more sorties.

Have "we" been soft on terrorists? Are there targets in the ME and at home where we know a terrorist is hiding but thought not to bomb them, not until this latest tragedy? Now that they kill more of our people, we're going to do it?

So over the next few days, France and allies is going to bomb a few sites somewhere in the ME. And if we follow the logic - that we have been at war and if there are known terrorists or some potential terrorist we'd bomb them already - then what we'd be doing is killing more innocent people, people around targets we thought weren't warrant a few tomahawk and hellfire... until now.

You're missing something though Grasshopper.

Who have been the subject of Islamic terrorism?

It is not the perpetrators of such wars and interference etc, vis a vis Western *Governments/Military*, it is ordinary folks not remotely interested in fighting, Men, Women, little boys, little girls.

Just like the innocent folks the Evil bastard ran over with his truck, just out for a nice night out to celebrate a holiday.

This will harden our hearts and set us ordinary folk against them... and indeed all Muslims.

It will not end well and innocents will suffer the most.

 

[wayneL]

Idealism is dangerous - that's my conclusion.

The Idealism being pursued by Western politicians worldwide is: "be open and accepting of all". Such a mantra is better as an aim, not a way of life. This is the critical error they have made.

Growth towards such an aim means that sometimes expansion/openness/acceptance is the right way, and sometimes contraction/closure/judgment/rejection is the right way forward.

If you're holding a house party, do you advertise it on social media? Sure you do... if you want your house completely trashed. As you clean up the next day and assess the damage you can console yourself that you are open and accepting of all.

Fantastic analogy. True, true.