Islam: Is it inherently Evil?

[bellenuit]

And yet this thread feels comfortable about condemning an entire faith and its adherents with a series of handpicked religious quotes and a number of incidents.

I have no intention of again addressing every point in your latest post, suffice to say that the above comment shows you have again ignored almost every comment made by posters where they have clearly distinguished between Islam the religion and Muslims the followers of Islam.

As regards to Bintang's claim that there are no moderate Muslims, you are missing the subtlety of what he is saying. It was obvious from the start that he was not saying that all those who claim to be and act like moderate Muslims are lying and are in fact extreme in their views, but saying that those who claim to be and act like moderate Muslims are in fact not really Muslims according to the dictates of their faith. If a true Muslim means following the Islamic doctrine of the Quran and Hadith, then a moderate (by our standards) Muslim is not a true Muslim using that definition.

What do you make of the comments of Erdogan, PM of Turkey, that he posted above. Erdogan is endorsing Bintang's view. That also explains why Turkey is one of the biggest supporters of ISIS. Additionally, Erdogan said just a day or two ago that the Charlie Hebdo killings were actually organised by the US and Israel. Typical denials by Muslim leaders that always try to disassociate Islam from such barbarism. Erdogan is also the person who said just a month ago that women were lesser persons than men (you did notice all the Muslim protesters hitting the street over that statement?).

 

[bellenuit]

Basilio. Look carefully at what this guy is saying (and on Egyptian TV): Our hatred of the Jews is based upon our faith. He is not blaming the Palestinian - Israel conflict or Western aggression. His hatred of another people is based on his faith.



Muslims Go Looking for Mosque, Assault Jewish Man in UK

http://www.frontpagemag.com/2015/dgreenfield/muslims-go-looking-for-mosque-assault-jewish-man-in-uk/

 

[Bintang]

Basilio. Look carefully at what this guy is saying (and on Egyptian TV): Our hatred of the Jews is based upon our faith. He is not blaming the Palestinian - Israel conflict or Western aggression. His hatred of another people is based on his faith.

Egyptian Cleric Says Jews Are the Offspring of Snakes and Vipers and Were Behind All Wars
http://www.memritv.org/clip_transcript/en/2058.htm

Following are excerpts from a religious TV program featuring Egyptian clerics Sheik Said Al-'Afani and Sheik Muhammad Abd Al-Salam, which aired on Al-Rahma TV on January 17, 2009:

Said Al-'Afani: [The Jews] are the accursed people, who incurred the wrath of Allah. They are the offspring of snakes and vipers, the slayers of our Prophet Muhammad, whose death was a consequence of his being poisoned by a Jewish woman ……
Our hatred of them is purely on religious grounds, and not because of the pure, sacred land, which was blessed by Allah, or because of Gaza...
Said Al-'Afani: ...not only because of Al-Aqsa and so on. We hate them, first and foremost, because of their enmity towards Allah, and because they slayed our prophets.
Muhammad Abd Al-Salam: Let me clarify that it is our duty to hate them, as part of our faith.
Said Al-'Afani: Right.


PS: I guess they are free to say all these things because in Egypt there is total freedom of speech unconstrained by something like our Section 18C.

 

[luutzu]

Basilio. Look carefully at what this guy is saying (and on Egyptian TV): Our hatred of the Jews is based upon our faith. He is not blaming the Palestinian - Israel conflict or Western aggression. His hatred of another people is based on his faith.

View attachment 61355

Muslims Go Looking for Mosque, Assault Jewish Man in UK

http://www.frontpagemag.com/2015/dgreenfield/muslims-go-looking-for-mosque-assault-jewish-man-in-uk/

Yea, Israelis have very nice things to say about Arabs and Muslims... go check it out on youtube, it'll bring tears to your eyes the things they say given the history they went through.

 

[Julia]

I took it as shouting but obviously I was wrong.

dutchie, I don't think you were wrong, in that the font was much larger than the body of the text, although not actually in capital letters. When bolded as well, the effect was - at least to me also - very much like shouting.

 

[luutzu]

dutchie, I don't think you were wrong, in that the font was much larger than the body of the text, although not actually in capital letters. When bolded as well, the effect was - at least to me also - very much like shouting.

Shouting is this: FD;LKJHFDA!!!!!!!! ARRRGGGGGGG!!!!!! MOTHERBROTHER!!!!!!!!

To bold or make text larger is to HIGHLIGHT! THE POINT!!!! [last three words were shout out for effect ]


I say my good man. We are merely pondering the inherent vice, the appalling incivilities and general barbarism of the followers of Muhammad the so called prophet (he he he). How uncouth and ill-mannered it is to raise our voice in such civil conversations regarding our superiority and their inferiority as clearly and ably demonstrated.

I do say. he he he... Cigar? he he he

 

[Bintang]

dutchie, I don't think you were wrong, in that the font was much larger than the body of the text, although not actually in capital letters. When bolded as well, the effect was - at least to me also - very much like shouting.

Shouting is this: FD;LKJHFDA!!!!!!!! ARRRGGGGGGG!!!!!! MOTHERBROTHER!!!!!!!!

To bold or make text larger is to HIGHLIGHT! THE POINT!!!! [last three words were shout out for effect ]

Let basilio shout as much as he wants to. It has produced the useful side effect that instead of discussing his point of view people are discussing whether he shouted or not.

PS: Wasn't there a book written about this sort of thing, "How to bury your message and not influence people"

 

[basilio]

Perhaps we need to lighten this thread up.

But still lets try to think about what a good honest all American/Australia/European Islamophobia might look like.

I can't do it as well as this guy so check out how Jon Stewart looks at the issue .

When Islamic Xenophobia reachs its peak this what happens.


.................................................. .................................................. ......
Waterboarding is how we baptise terrorists in America.

 

[Bintang]

Perhaps we need to lighten this thread up.
But still lets try to think about what a good honest all American/Australia/European Islamophobia might look like.
I can't do it as well as this guy so check out how Jon Stewart looks at the issue .
When Islamic Xenophobia reachs its peak this what happens.

The great thing about comedians is that they can laugh at both sides of an argument.

Jon Stewart: Wimpy White House Won’t ID Islam in Charlie Hebdo Shootings
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/kristi...e-house-wont-id-islam-charlie-hebdo-shootings

And the great thing about Western culture is that while we still have our freedom of speech we are free to laugh at and with the comedians.

Ayatollah Khomeini is reported to have said:
“Allah did not create man so that he could have fun. The aim of creation was for mankind to be put to the test through hardship and prayer. An Islamic regime must be serious in every field. There are no jokes in Islam. There is no humor in Islam. There is no fun in Islam. There can be no fun and joy in whatever is serious. ...”

basilio, you seemed to have missed the self-deprecating humour contained in my post #582.

What do you think about the following?
Is it light-hearted fun or would you condemn it as an act of Islamophobia?:

"****** have recently announced that they have opened voting for their Islamotoadyism Awards for 2015. The awards ceremony promises to be “an evening of comedy mayhem as we recognise the worst Islamotoadys from around the world.”

And basilio if you are so into humour yourself perhaps you would like to comment on the above for which I am still awaiting an answer.

 

[Bintang]

Perhaps we need to lighten this thread up.

More humour. The cause of Islamophobia and its cure:

Islamophobia is caused by a truth virus. In the West there is no known cure other than visiting the local mosque and allowing oneself to be brainwashed.
This has a very low success rate as the truth virus is very resilient.

In the middle east there is a guaranteed successful surgical treatment, which is free of charge. One way to obtain this treatment is to travel to Riyadh. When you get there just stand on any street corner and shout out “Muhammad was a child molester”.

However, such free treatment is not yet available in the West as it is pending the full implementation of Sharia law in Western society.

 

[bellenuit]

Why islam is more Violent than Christianity

http://thefederalist.com/2015/01/27/why-islam-is-more-violent-than-christianity-an-atheists-guide/

 

[luutzu]

More humour. The cause of Islamophobia and its cure:

Islamophobia is caused by a truth virus. In the West there is no known cure other than visiting the local mosque and allowing oneself to be brainwashed.
This has a very low success rate as the truth virus is very resilient.

In the middle east there is a guaranteed successful surgical treatment, which is free of charge. One way to obtain this treatment is to travel to Riyadh. When you get there just stand on any street corner and shout out “Muhammad was a child molester”.

However, such free treatment is not yet available in the West as it is pending the full implementation of Sharia law in Western society.

I saw a youtube where they quote a book from Time Inc. ranking the 100 most influential/important people throughout history - the entire history of the entire world.

Guess who rank #1?

Muhammad. Yea, the most influential, the most significant figure in world history was Muhammad.

The author/editor [?] explained that the reason Muhammad was chosen was because no person could equal him in personal achievements and influence on both the secular and the religious realm.

From that PBS documentary, it was quite obvious that from nothing he managed to forged rivaling tribes of Bedouins/Arabs into one nation, and using Islam he united them into one people. How many people do you know that have done that in so short a time? Genghis Khan, maybe Alexander the Great on the military/nation building side... maybe Moses comes close on both counts... but not many others.

Through the Koran, he permitted trade, permitted scientific enquiries and do what JFK some 1300 years later encapsulate as "...here on Earth, God's work must be our own." So while glorious and progressive Christians preaches (and enforces) witch hunts, a life of self harm to repent for the sins of Adam and Eve... the Muslims weren't exactly waiting around for their maker did they?

When did we in the West, with our Christian values, legally abolish slavery? Segregation? Women's rights? Gay rights? Not that long ago.. and on matter of gay rights, we're not exactly out of the woods yet are we? On genocide against Aborigines? We've only recently said "sorry" didn't we? Of course we're sorry, been sorry for a while, but just like Howard we're only sorry if it means no bloody compensation.


So given the long history of Islam and Christianity and the conducts and policies of states and people it influenced... can we seriously say one is gentler and more progressive than the other? Or progress and repression a matter of political interests and leanings of those in power?

Socialism is a great idea... put it in the wrong hands and "all animals are equal, just some animals are more equal than others"... then "all animals are equal; but pigs are more equal than all others."

Capitalism is a nasty, heartless ideology. Let it go without regulation and you have kids working in coal mines, fish floating up on top of dead rivers... but give some thought and reasonable requirements of fair play and it does wonders for the world.

Things are not always as simple as they evil, we good.

 

[Bintang]

Perhaps we need to lighten this thread up.

Muhammad. Yea, the most influential, the most significant figure in world history was Muhammad.

The author/editor [?] explained that the reason Muhammad was chosen was because no person could equal him in personal achievements and influence on both the secular and the religious realm.

The humour just keeps coming. In deference to basilio’s suggestion I will refrain from countering any of your remarks except to say that ”Any fool can turn a blind eye but who knows what the ostrich sees in the sand”

 

[basilio]

Isn't the internet wonderful? With barely a flick of my wrists I can discover that almost all climate scientists are liars who are in league with the United Nations and environmentalists to control the world through the great Global Warming hoax.

I can find out that President Obama is actually not an American but a Muslim stooge - an Anti Christ even.

A thousand websites will scream about the horrors of Islam, the terrors to come of Islamic domination.

Another thousand will preach about the imminent coming of The Lord with Fire and Brimestone just around the corner.

Then there will be the scores that tell stories of vast international conspiracies. The Illuminati. The great secret Jewish takeover. The shadowy One World vistas of the United Nations.

I can keep looking of course. I will find stories of the most powerful nation on Earth having the biggest communication spy network capable of monitoring almost any communication it desires.

Of hundreds of people whisked out of their homes bundled into vans and taken to secret torture centres around the world and duly "baptised" to find out what treachery they might be up to.

So how much of these stories do I believe ? What parts of them are credible ? Who is trying to tell the truth ? Who is trying to create a big lie ? Who are crazy ? Who are evil ?

One of the scariest parts of many discussions has been people trotting out stories that are simple and proven lies. But even when one goes to the trouble to point this out (because there often is evidence to disprove particular stories) it doesn't change their views in the slightest. They have made up their minds and no amount of evidence will convince them that, for instance President Obama is legitimately American.

So in relation to the incessant production of anti Islamic stories. Having seen just how dishonest organizations can be I am very slow to just accept these on face value. As a question of balance for example one could find equal numbers of similarly abusive and truthful representations of Jewish, American and Christian organisations. It is just a matter of looking.

But the overall issue for me is still

"How will we respond to these messages of hate ? What behavior is this writer attempting to elicit from us "

Distrust breeds distrust. Hate creates hate. Caluminies destroy goodwill.

________________________________________________________________________________________

And why should we be ultra careful of what we read on the net? Because we now have evidence, from inside the secret services, that the Western intelligence community actively uses the Internet to manipulate, deceive and destroy reputations.

Something to think about perhaps ?

How Covert Agents Infiltrate the Internet to Manipulate, Deceive, and Destroy Reputations
By Glenn Greenwald
@ggreenwald
02/25/2014
Share


One of the many pressing stories that remains to be told from the Snowden archive is how western intelligence agencies are attempting to manipulate and control online discourse with extreme tactics of deception and reputation-destruction. It’s time to tell a chunk of that story, complete with the relevant documents.

Over the last several weeks, I worked with NBC News to publish a series of articles about “dirty trick” tactics used by GCHQ’s previously secret unit, JTRIG (Joint Threat Research Intelligence Group). These were based on four classified GCHQ documents presented to the NSA and the other three partners in the English-speaking “Five Eyes” alliance. Today, we at the Intercept are publishing another new JTRIG document, in full, entitled “The Art of Deception: Training for Online Covert Operations.”

https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/02/24/jtrig-manipulation/

 

[Bintang]

Perhaps we need to lighten this thread up.

And why should we be ultra careful of what we read on the net? Because we now have evidence, from inside the secret services, that the Western intelligence community actively uses the Internet to manipulate, deceive and destroy reputations.

And so this invalidates every argument made on this thread
Took me a while to figure out the humour in this post but I finally got it. ROTFL

PS: Give us the heads up when you want to go back to being serious.

 

[bellenuit]

As a question of balance for example one could find equal numbers of similarly abusive and truthful representations of Jewish, American and Christian organisations. It is just a matter of looking.

Officials: Boko Haram kidnaps 185 women and children, kills 32 people
http://edition.cnn.com/2014/12/18/world/africa/nigeria-boko-haram-kidnapping/

ISIS leader demands female genital mutilation of 2 million girls
http://beforeitsnews.com/christian-...al-mutilation-of-2-million-girls-2508500.html

I'm very reluctant to put the following up and warn that some may find it disturbing. However, it is not even close to some of the other barbaric acts committed on women in the name of Islam.



So Basilio, go find me examples of similarly abusive and truthful representations committed by Jewish, American and Christian organisations against women comparable to the above 3. And please don't go talking about the crusades.

 

[luutzu]

The humour just keeps coming. In deference to basilio’s suggestion I will refrain from countering any of your remarks except to say that ”Any fool can turn a blind eye but who knows what the ostrich sees in the sand”

I don't think I am turning a blind eye on anything. I am, as Howard used to remind us, alert but not alarmed.

As US vp Joe Biden said in one of his interviews, the best advice, and also the hardest to believe sometimes, he received when he first joined politics was that other politicians across the aisle also have the national interests at heart - just they believe it's best achieved in different ways.

Maybe he's too optimistic with politicians, haha... So while some Australians might think it's best for all Australians if Muslims are less devout or get out of Islam all together; those who say that that's wrong on many levels don't say it because they hate Australia and its values, or have their head in the sand either.

 

[Bintang]

Officials: Boko Haram kidnaps 185 women and children, kills 32 people
http://edition.cnn.com/2014/12/18/world/africa/nigeria-boko-haram-kidnapping/

ISIS leader demands female genital mutilation of 2 million girls
http://beforeitsnews.com/christian-...al-mutilation-of-2-million-girls-2508500.html

I'm very reluctant to put the following up and warn that some may find it disturbing. However, it is not even close to some of the other barbaric acts committed on women in the name of Islam.



So Basilio, go find me examples of similarly abusive and truthful representations committed by Jewish, American and Christian organisations against women comparable to the above 3. And please don't go talking about the crusades.

I don't think I am turning a blind eye on anything.

That's good to know luutzu. So make sure you read Bellenuit's last post and watch the video.

 

[luutzu]

Officials: Boko Haram kidnaps 185 women and children, kills 32 people
http://edition.cnn.com/2014/12/18/world/africa/nigeria-boko-haram-kidnapping/

ISIS leader demands female genital mutilation of 2 million girls
http://beforeitsnews.com/christian-...al-mutilation-of-2-million-girls-2508500.html

I'm very reluctant to put the following up and warn that some may find it disturbing. However, it is not even close to some of the other barbaric acts committed on women in the name of Islam.



So Basilio, go find me examples of similarly abusive and truthful representations committed by Jewish, American and Christian organisations against women comparable to the above 3. And please don't go talking about the crusades.

Should we blame all Jews for what these guys say?




Would being forced to lock yourself inside your house, be afraid to walk down your street... That's just normal right?

And did that Jewish settler at the beginning just implied plans for genocide or annexation?



Look up all the crazy stuff people and countries do to each other at your own pleasure... too much for me. I'll put my head in the sand for this one.

 

[Bintang]

Perhaps we need to lighten this thread up.
But still lets try to think about what a good honest all American/Australia/European Islamophobia might look like.
When Islamic Xenophobia reachs its peak this what happens.

Since there is still no sign from basilio that he/she wants to return to serious discussion I will continue with some more ‘light, humour’ by posting a video of an ‘honest to God' (I mean honest to Allah), true-blue Islamophobe, to remove any doubt about what one looks like.

I’m sure that all good, honest Islamotoadys will find this video absolutely hilarious.