Islam: Is it inherently Evil?

[basilio]

Bintang exactly where did you come across the tag line you use for this discussion?

 

[Bintang]

Bintang exactly where did you come across the tag line you use for this discussion?

Which 'tag line' (I think I have used many) and why do you want to know?

 

[luutzu]

Absolutely, and that's because the Saudi dynasty are quasi-muslims, not muslims. Ossama Bin-Laden would have killed all of them if he had the chance.

Refer back to my table of muslim categories. It really does help to put everything in perspective.

haha... yea, that nice list.

Saddam Hussein was OK when he fought Iran and gas Iranians (and his own people); Kuwait? That evil dictator!

Ey, I even saw a doco where Rumsfeld said how he flew to Baghdad and met Saddam during the Iraq/Iran war, but how reluctant Rumsfeld was and how when he shook Saddam's hand and smile and they sat side by side discussing poetry or something, Rumsfeld remembered how evil and vile Saddam was.

Not sure if the vileness seeth out before or after he authorises weapons to Saddam.

Bin Laden and the Taliban was not too bad when they fought the Soviets and the US supply them arms...


Man, these war and peace and politics and grand strategy and oil and stuff... they sure make strange bedfellows.

 

[Calliope]

So trust me, you're wrong about Muslims and Islam

Well nothing that you have ever said about the issue (i.e. the bits I could decipher) makes any sense. I trust you man, but you are dead wrong.

... and man, you do not want to live in a country where the majority think like you do about them or any other group either.

Well they are very lucky to live here. We know they are up to no good, yet we tolerate them and even pay them welfare so that they don't have to work. And we even allow their Jihadist children who have joined ISIS, a safe passage back to Australia after they have learned their evil trade. The government panders more to them, than to the minority who recognise that Islam is evil. What are the apologists for Islam whinging about?

Where do you and Rumpy and Bas get the idea that we are not nice to them?

 

[Bintang]

haha... yea, that nice list.
Saddam Hussein (Sunni Muslim) was OK when he fought Iran and gas Iranians (Shia muslims) (and his own people – mostly Shia muslims. The ruling class Sunnis were a minority); Kuwait (Quasi-muslims)? That evil dictator!

No, not so hard to understand.

 

[luutzu]

Well nothing that you have ever said about the issue (i.e. the bits I could decipher) makes any sense. I trust you man, but you are dead wrong.



Well they are very lucky to live here. We know they are up to no good, yet we tolerate them and even pay them welfare so that they don't have to work. And we even allow their Jihadist children who have joined ISIS, a safe passage back to Australia after they have learned their evil trade. The government panders more to them, than to the minority who recognise that Islam is evil. What are the apologists for Islam whinging about?

Where do you and Rumpy and Bas get the idea that we are not nice to them?

You know "they" are Australians too right?

Yea, it said so on their Citizenship paper, maybe even birth certificate.

I guess Australian-ness must be in the blood.


But you know, since welfare are just for "them", let's cut it. And those few "real Australian" who need welfare? I think you think they won't mind since it's for the best interests of Australia and real Australians.

Since they have more children, who attend schools, who may even go to uni... let's "deregulate" uni fees and those few real Aussies whose real Aussie children want to attend uni but can't afford it... well we all get the picture.

 

[Calliope]

Huh??? What the hell are you rabbitting on about?

 

[luutzu]

Huh??? What the hell are you rabbitting on about?

I think it passed your bedtime. Didn't nap today?

 

[luutzu]

No, not so hard to understand.

No buddy, I said we, the West/US was fine with him when he do what we like; We weren't fine with him when he do the same thing that we do not like.

Got nothing to do with Religion.

We, like all nations, sleeps with anyone that serves our purpose. Sometime we feel bad about it... and sometime feel really really bad for having done it... especially when they jump in bed with others we don't like, or decided to not sleep with us anymore.

 

[Bintang]

No buddy, I said we, the West/US was fine with him when he do what we like; We weren't fine with him when he do the same thing that we do not like.

Got nothing to do with Religion.

We, like all nations, sleeps with anyone that serves our purpose. Sometime we feel bad about it... and sometime feel really really bad for having done it... especially when they jump in bed with others we don't like, or decided to not sleep with us anymore.

And in what way exactly does you discourse help us to debate the very weighty matter of whether 'Islam is inherently evil?'

 

[luutzu]

This again is where I think you are making the wrong comparison. It was Nazism that was inherently evil and Islam is today's equivalent to Nazism. In Palestinian schools they are thought that the Jews are monkeys (Case Study: Portraying Jews as "Apes and Pigs" http://www.palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=786 ) and the Islamic Hadith calls for the extermination of the Jews (it is explicit and no amount of obfuscation by the apologists can claim it is saying otherwise: 73% of Palestinians agree with genocidal hadith about Muslims killing Jews hiding behind trees http://www.jihadwatch.org/2011/08/7...bout-muslims-killing-jews-hiding-behind-trees ). Although there may be instances of Muslims being harassed for wearing their headgear in Western societies, it is the Jews in Europe who, under attack by Islam, are the victims and reminiscent of Germany when the Nazis were coming to power.

A new anti-Semitism? Why thousands of Jewish citizens are leaving France

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/a-ne...usands-of-jewish-citizens-are-leaving-france/

Jewish people feel they have no future in Britain as fears over anti-Semitism grow

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/55...ry-about-future-fears-over-anti-Semitism-grow

It was Nazism that imposed censorship of "liberal" writings, movies and even music and it is Islam today that does the same thing. Islam is not standing up for the rights of free speech but like the Nazis who denounced "liberal" culture as Jewish filth, Islam denounce it as unIslamic and Jewish inspired filth.

We have seen the oppression of minorities in almost all Islamic states at the hands of the Islamists in power. It is there we see "laws against employment, marriage, owning of businesses" by infidels. There are no comparable laws in any Western democracy applied to Muslims.

Everything you fear about what could happen if Islam is denounced is actually happening all over the Muslim world against infidels, yet you do not seem to have an issue with it.

It was those who appeased Nazism that allowed it to take hold in Europe and it is those who appease Islam's barbaric culture that will allow it to spread in the West.

You are picking the wrong victim.

So if, say the Japanese, were to bomb us every couple of years; took our land, keep us in open air prisons, control all aspect of our lives.. .and now and then between the big "operations" they kick in our doors and take our brothers or father away in the night.... if they do that to us, are we expected to sing praises of them?

Maybe you ought to look up what Israel is teaching the Jewish Israelis about Arabs at school.


Yea, the French Jewish left France for Israel because of Muslims/Arabs.

haha... You would have thought the sensible thing to do would be to move out of the Arab ghettos or whatever you call them, and live next to nice Christian families IN FRANCE, or Australia, or US.

Doesn't sound smart to be fearful of Arabs and Muslims, then pack and move in next door to literally millions of them, and near hundreds of millions of them; most of whom you've seen on TV are kept in cages but now and then one or two managed to blow something up.

I would have thought they moved there because Israel gave them some $150 000 in tax cuts and assistance; also give them loans where they can keep and not repay if they stay in Israel for ten years or more.

 

[Bintang]

Huh??? What the hell are you rabbitting on about?

And in what way exactly does you discourse help us to debate the very weighty matter of whether 'Islam is inherently evil?'

So if, say the Japanese, bla… bla… bla…. stay in Israel for ten years or more.

 

[luutzu]

And in what way exactly does you discourse help us to debate the very weighty matter of whether 'Islam is inherently evil?'

In that we think it's evil because some of them are fighting against us and our interests.

Saudi Arabia is quite a fundamentalist kind of Islamic kingdom isn't it? No democracy, freedom, none of "our values" there - what with the public head chopping they do weekly it seem... we seem OK with them and always invite them to our parties.

When evil is seen, but it came from a Christian state (Nazi Germany)... did we question evilness there as Christian values?

-----

I agree that this is a serious matter. But religion or Islam isn't it. What's weighty here is terrorism.


You can explain Islamic terrorism away by debating Islam and how it preaches violence and evilness... that's what we're told to do. So good job.

So sure, they hate us because of our values, because of who we are, because they don't like our women wearing bikinis (who would hate other people's women wearing bikini, seriously?) or going to work or study... That or maybe it's something else.


Sun Tzu said, war are struggles between two forces; hence it is only from knowing both yourself and your enemy will you attain victory. To know yourself but not your enemy; to know your enemy but not yourself... you can only win half the time. What victory is there to speak of when you neither know yourself nor your enemy.


We, the people, do we know what is and has been done in our name? Claimed to be done for our interests?

I doubt we know that.

Do we, the people, know our enemy? Know why they hate us and want to terrorise us?


If our answer is we always do good or do nothing at all; That they hate us because of their religion and their lack of education and their savagery and barbarism...

That's to fight wars, not to win it.

 

[pixel]

In scientific psychology, it was found that people stereotype this and that so it is easier to think.

Stereotyping, in other words, make the subject matter simpler to process - we don't want to see everything as completely new and must reprocess.

Some stereotyping are essential, passed down to us from our forebears due to its evolutionary advantages - most snakes will kill you, best to avoid and be afraid of them; women with big breasts and lots of curves would nourish your offspring better, so try to marry those ones...

However, for the simple minded, the lazy... stereotyping serves the need to not think too much else their head hurts. That's even easier to do when you got media and politicians winking and nudging if they're not screaming it out loud... that Muslims and Islam are this and that.
----


Seriously though, you ought to get to know a few Muslims. I went to school with some of them; have work with some of them; have dealt with a few tradies and contractors; have interacted with them... they're good people... not very different from any group you care to compare to.

Give you an example. We were demolishing this brick shed and hired a few skip bins from this Muslim skip hire place. The owner, who is also the driver, saw our shed and see it's all brick. Know what he said? We've already agreed on the price but once he saw our pile he said that if we just throw bricks in the bins, he'll charge us $550 instead of $800.

Even advised us on how to recycle the colorbond and have it picked up free, and the few sticks of timber we can take to the depot ourselves.

I've met enough Arabs and Muslims to know they're not all like that, but that also applies to other races I know as well - including the Asians, and the Catholics, and the Whites.

So trust me, you're wrong about Muslims and Islam... and man, you do not want to live in a country where the majority think like you do about them or any other group either.


So if you yourself have looked into this issue carefully and concluded that Muslim and Islam is just nasty, then OK; Just make sure you're not being made a fool of by those with other motives.

A first step might be to ask why is it that we always fight bad and evil people.

Are they bad and evil because they're really nasty, or so because they're against us only.

Are we good and pure when we flatten homes and destroy cities to protect ourselves or avenge crimes against us; but they are evil and cruel when they do similar for perceived wrongdoings by us?

and

In that we think it's evil because some of them are fighting against us and our interests.

Saudi Arabia is quite a fundamentalist kind of Islamic kingdom isn't it? No democracy, freedom, none of "our values" there - what with the public head chopping they do weekly it seem... we seem OK with them and always invite them to our parties.

When evil is seen, but it came from a Christian state (Nazi Germany)... did we question evilness there as Christian values?

-----

I agree that this is a serious matter. But religion or Islam isn't it. What's weighty here is terrorism.

You can explain Islamic terrorism away by debating Islam and how it preaches violence and evilness... that's what we're told to do. So good job.

So sure, they hate us because of our values, because of who we are, because they don't like our women wearing bikinis (who would hate other people's women wearing bikini, seriously?) or going to work or study... That or maybe it's something else.

Sun Tzu said, war are struggles between two forces; hence it is only from knowing both yourself and your enemy will you attain victory. To know yourself but not your enemy; to know your enemy but not yourself... you can only win half the time. What victory is there to speak of when you neither know yourself nor your enemy.

We, the people, do we know what is and has been done in our name? Claimed to be done for our interests?

I doubt we know that.

Do we, the people, know our enemy? Know why they hate us and want to terrorise us?

If our answer is we always do good or do nothing at all; That they hate us because of their religion and their lack of education and their savagery and barbarism...

That's to fight wars, not to win it.

Thanks luutzu,

you've said everything I intended to say, but had trouble focusing my mind on a clear path among all the polemic and hateful commentary so rife in this thread. So thank you for summing it up in a concise manner - again! - far better than I managed in individual replies that were too easily trolled and buried .

If I had a choice, I'd lock this thread because nothing new is likely to be added. But that would only give more ammunition to additional repetitive whinges in the "no more freedom of speech" thread.

 

[Julia]

Even a simple mind like yours must be aware that Islamism is an evil religion/cult, and Bas is obviously smarter than you, who keep posting even when you have nothing to say.

Can't you express your view without being so unnecessarily insulting to another member?

 

[Bintang]

Saudi Arabia is quite a fundamentalist kind of Islamic kingdom isn't it? No democracy, freedom, none of "our values" there - what with the public head chopping they do weekly it seem... we seem OK with them and always invite them to our parties.

Well you are focussing in on something quite important. Saudi Arabia is the cradle of Islam. It’s where Mohammad lived his life and it’s the guardian of Islam’s holiest places Mecca and Medina. But a while back we already touched on the reason for the dichotomy of the relationship between Saudi Arabia and the West and that is oil. (no surprise here)

But a contributing factor to the dichotomy is the Saudi Royal family who want to remain the lords of their feudal kingdom forever. They live in extravagant luxury while many of their surfs are quite poor. The only way you can maintain something like that forever is by rigid, political control and Islam does that for them perfectly.

However, the Saudis who are mostly Sunni muslims are threatened externally by their Shia cousins such as those over the border in Iran. The hatred and bitterness between Sunnis and Shias goes right back to the immediate aftermath of Mohammed’s death. So for years, the Saudi Royals have needed 3rd party military protection to maintain their extravagantly wealthy lifestyles and totalitarian control. Enter the USA who needed their oil and its win-win all around. (Except for the poor surfs at the bottom of the food chain.)

The internal political control mechanisms that the Saudis use today were invented and perfected by Mohammad during the last 22 years of his life. During this time (610 to 632 AD) he expanded his territorial control by relentless war-mongering and pillaging of neighbouring tribes, until his small group of followers had grown from less than a hundred to tens of thousands and he was in total control of the Arabian peninsula.

 

[Calliope]

Can't you express your view without being so unnecessarily insulting to another member?

Sorry to give you cause to reprimand me on Rumpy's behalf. But the truth will out. Incidently my post wasn't insulting but his was intentionally provocative. His reference to me;

The master of denunciation by inference strikes again

.

I know I shouldn't respond to provocatory posts. It was a mistake to take Rumpy off ignore.

 

[SirRumpole]

I know I shouldn't respond to provocatory posts. It was a mistake to take Rumpy off ignore.

Put me back on again, because that's where you are.

 

[basilio]

Bintang the tag I am referring to is

"The most authentic form of Islam being practised today is by ISIS."


Just where did you find this line or is just a personal piece of creative writing ?

 

[Bintang]

If I had a choice, I'd lock this thread because nothing new is likely to be added. But that would only give more ammunition to additional repetitive whinges in the "no more freedom of speech" thread.

pixel, as far as I am concerned this thread is locked/closed and also the “West Has lost Its freedom of Speech” thread.

When the moderator of a debate displays the level of bias that you have shown there is no point in the debate continuing.

It’s a pity because as events continue to unfold in Europe and the rest of the World I think there will be plenty of new things to add and discuss.

If you object to this criticism please ask Joe to terminate my membership of ASF