Islam: Is it inherently Evil?

[bellenuit]

This guy actually lives in the UK.

About the only saving grace is that he seems to think that applying the exhortations of the Quran or Hadith should only apply in Islamic States. It is worth a listen.

https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/maajid-nawaz/sharia-law-supporting-caller-maajid-nawaz-isis/

 

[bellenuit]

What I find most annoying and insulting is the glib attitudes to many on the left who refer to this thread as an anti-muslim thread. I would estimate that apart from a few exceptions, the vast majority of posts here are simply pointing out the actual evil committed in the name of Islam in vast swathes of the world.

The people being oppressed in these Islamic States are Muslims themselves and things will never change there if attention is not brought to bear on what is going on. But it seems and is obvious the Left doesn't give a rat's a*** about their oppression. Only the evils of the West are of concern to them. In fact the Left actively tries to suppress articles and speeches by people who want to expose what is happening. I showed a video last week about an ex-muslim lady being shouted down at a university. Another ex-muslim lady, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, requires body guards to protect her when she speaks.

Although I regard myself as centre or left of centre, the hypocrisy of the Left is appalling. Crocodile tears by the bucket load.

 

[DB008]

Bellenuit - this is exactly what l was trying to get at. Politicians are too scared to go near this topic (proper Q&A - Hitchens and Dawkins are the only ones who challenged intellectually this process at all) and are sidelined by people like Waleed Aly. If they reply in any way that isn't in agreement, they are branded a racist

 

[IFocus]

Yes I found Adern's response in terms of the headscarf uneccesarilly tokenistic and shallow.

If a Muslim nutcase murdered people on a beach would all the Muslim women walk around in bikinis ?

We are who we are and we should celebrate diversity.

I think the hard heads in NZ security would have asked for Aderns response to try negative radicalism internal and try to buffer against the reprisal which will come.

This is what PMs do to protect their people.

 

[explod]

What I find most annoying and insulting is the glib attitudes to many on the left who refer to this thread as an anti-muslim thread. I would estimate that apart from a few exceptions, the vast majority of posts here are simply pointing out the actual evil committed in the name of Islam in vast swathes of the world.

The people being oppressed in these Islamic States are Muslims themselves and things will never change there if attention is not brought to bear on what is going on. But it seems and is obvious the Left doesn't give a rat's a*** about their oppression. Only the evils of the West are of concern to them. In fact the Left actively tries to suppress articles and speeches by people who want to expose what is happening. I showed a video last week about an ex-muslim lady being shouted down at a university. Another ex-muslim lady, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, requires body guards to protect her when she speaks.

Although I regard myself as centre or left of centre, the hypocrisy of the Left is appalling. Crocodile tears by the bucket load.

I do not disagree with you. But meeting head on is no answer. If anything is going to change for the better we need to live in harmony and strive to provide better pathways for other cultures to follow.

Not all but many of these peoples live in abject poverty and they have little opportunities for a rounded education to shed light on other cultures and ideas. When you have mega millionaires like Gina Rinehart as one example, who does not really need more than a nice house and 1 hundred thousand a year to live on her excess and that of so many others could properly clothe, shelter and feed most of our poor. With these better conditions and education they would come on board to control birth rates and so many other good things. Building walls and barriers is just not going to work soon anywhere.

And left right or centre, how can we paint anyone really, there are just too many variations in or respective lives.

And DB008, Richard Dawkins is on the absolute top of my list as a sociological thinker.

 

[bellenuit]

I do not disagree with you. But meeting head on is no answer. If anything is going to change for the better we need to live in harmony and strive to provide better pathways for other cultures to follow.

Not all but many of these peoples live in abject poverty and they have little opportunities for a rounded education to shed light on other cultures and ideas.

Yes, education is probably the key, particularly the education of women, that is why Malala Yousafzai was so reviled by Pakistan's Islamic leaders.

I am not advocating a head on attack against those aspects of Islam that are evil. But sweeping them under the carpet is not the way to go and sometimes even token gestures of support for aspects of Islam can be used to further oppress Muslims in Islamic States. I am in two minds about Jacinda Ardern donning the hijab and other NZ women wearing headscarves as a mark of respect for the Muslim victims. I believe she and they are sincere, but there are other ways it could have been done other than using a symbol that has another meaning to many Muslims namely as a symbol of repression.

Those of you who follow events in the Islamic world might be aware that just a few weeks ago, an Iranian Lawyer, Nasrin Sotoudeh was sentenced to 38 years in prison and 148 lashes for defending women there who removed their hijab in public.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...ory.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.3fbf778116ef

This is a tweet by one of the women defended by Nasrin. Note how marches by Western women wearing hijabs are used by Iranian authorities to prove their strict rules are right. I am sure that the constant battering by the Left of those who point out Islam's flaws by labelling them Islamaphobic is also used by many Islamic leaders as proof they are being unjustly attacked.

 

[explod]

"bellenuit, ...I am sure that the constant battering by the Left of those who point out Islam's flaws by labelling them Islamaphobic is also used by many Islamic leaders as proof they are being unjustly attacked..."

By the left, not sure that I understand, in my view the battering would be from the right, have I missed something

 

[bellenuit]

"bellenuit, ...I am sure that the constant battering by the Left of those who point out Islam's flaws by labelling them Islamaphobic is also used by many Islamic leaders as proof they are being unjustly attacked..."

By the left, not sure that I understand, in my view the battering would be from the right, have I missed something

I think you might have. Those who strongly promote the idea that criticism of Islam is Islamaphobic are newspapers like The Guardian and (over here) TV channels like the ABC and to a certain extent SBS. Even though a lot of those wrongly accused of Islamaphobia are probably centre or even left of centre, almost all who use the term to stifle genuine debate are on the left.

There is genuine Islamaphobia and it is rife and I would have no issue with agreeing that genuine Islamaphobia is largely confined to the Right side of politics. But the term is also used to obfuscate the debate by conflating criticism of Islam with hatred of Muslims and this is where the Left, in my opinion, is guilty.

 

[lindsayf]

I think you might have. Those who strongly promote the idea that criticism of Islam is Islamaphobic are newspapers like The Guardian and (over here) TV channels like the ABC and to a certain extent SBS. Even though a lot of those wrongly accused of Islamaphobia are probably centre or even left of centre, almost all who use the term to stifle genuine debate are on the left.

There is genuine Islamaphobia and it is rife and I would have no issue with agreeing that genuine Islamaphobia is largely confined to the Right side of politics. But the term is also used to obfuscate the debate by conflating criticism of Islam with hatred of Muslims and this is where the Left, in my opinion, is guilty.

Thanks for your ongoing thoughtful and reasoned disussion on this topic. It has become impossible to have these discussions in most corners of our society without being branded ‘islamaphobe’ or some other discussion killing response. Few voices now are heard / able to be heard from this perspective. Missing Christopher Hitchens.

 

[explod]

Those of you who follow events in the Islamic world might be aware that just a few weeks ago, an Iranian Lawyer, Nasrin Sotoudeh was sentenced to 38 years in prison and 148 lashes for defending women there who removed their hijab in public.

Interesting, I first learnt of this from the Guardian, and agree absolutely, it's dreadful, I have signed the WW petition for his release. Again it's hard to seperate left and right between us here in Australia. One of my best friends is a Liberal and we discuss politics (more life issues) a lot.

 

[Wysiwyg]

Why are people that aren't directly affected by the Islamic way of life so concerned. Is the concern genuine or just band-wagoning?

 

[Wysiwyg]

Another point that is overlooked regarding the integration into host society is the mating aspect. Is an Australian male allowed to mate and remain a non believer?

 

[bellenuit]

Why are people that aren't directly affected by the Islamic way of life so concerned. Is the concern genuine or just band-wagoning?

Because some care about fellow humans.

 

[SirRumpole]

Why are people that aren't directly affected by the Islamic way of life so concerned. Is the concern genuine or just band-wagoning?

Because Islam is like a creeping ivy, let it go too far and it will take over.

Some of them have no respect for democracy they just want their own way, eg ISIS. There is no telling how many secret supporters they have in this country and if they get too big the moderate Muslims will protect them for fear of being branded infidels and severely punished.

If you think that is paranoid, Britain , France, Belgium and other European countries are now going through the first pangs of an Islamic revolution. We had better keep an eye on what is happening there and learn from it.

 

[Macquack]

Another point that is overlooked regarding the integration into host society is the mating aspect. Is an Australian male allowed to mate and remain a non believer?

I am happy for you to religion bash as long as you include all religions in your criticism.

In point, an Australian male is not allowed to marry a catholic woman in a catholic church and remain a non believer.

 

[SirRumpole]

In point, an Australian male is not allowed to marry a catholic woman in a catholic church and remain a non believer.

Personal life

Turnbull and his wife Lucy Turnbull, 2003–04 Sydney Lord Mayor, in January 2012
Turnbull is married to Lucy Turnbull (née Hughes), who was the Lord Mayor of Sydney from 2003 to 2004 and has held a number of other prominent positions. The couple were married on 22 March 1980 at Cumnor, Oxfordshire, by a Church of England priest while Turnbull was attending the University of Oxford.[140] They live in the eastern suburbs of Sydney.[141]

Turnbull and Lucy have two adult children, Alex and Daisy, and as of July 2016, three grandchildren.[141][142] Alex Turnbull is married to Yvonne Wang of Chinese descent.[143][144]

The use of Bligh as a male middle name is a tradition in the Turnbull family. It is also Turnbull's son's middle name. One of Turnbull's ancestors was colonist John Turnbull, who named his youngest son William Bligh Turnbull in honour of deposed Governor William Bligh at the time of the Rum Rebellion.[145]

Religion
Raised Presbyterian, Turnbull became agnostic in the beginning of his adult life and later converted to Roman Catholicism "by mid-2002"; his wife's family is Roman Catholic.[146][147] However, he has found himself at odds with the church's teaching on abortion, stem cell research and same-sex marriage.[148][149] Turnbull supported legislation relaxing restrictions on abortion pill RU486 and he also voted for the legalisation of somatic cell nuclear transfer.[150][151][152] He did so despite the vocal public opposition to both proposals by Cardinal George Pell, the then-Archbishop of Sydney.[153][154]

 

[Wysiwyg]

Because Islam is like a creeping ivy, let it go too far and it will take over.

I don't think it will take over but it will definitely establish its boundaries in the host country. Inside those boundaries being a completely different way of life.

 

[Wysiwyg]

Because some care about fellow humans.

The outlawing of human slavery was a great leap forward for humanity moving toward a civilised world. Could religion also make the leap forward with a new sweeping modern day civilised interpretation? We have seen the worst extreme interpretation, is there an interpretation at the other end of the scale?

 

[explod]

Why are people that aren't directly affected by the Islamic way of life so concerned. Is the concern genuine or just band-wagoning?

Because we live on the same growing smaller planet, you obviously come from somewhere else.

 

[qldfrog]

a

Because we live on the same growing smaller planet, you obviously come from somewhere else.

And because islam affect you directly even if a non muslim: separate sex public swimming pool or no more pork at the cantine for example if living in some part of secular europe
I call this the green plague, maybe the result of only a fraction of the muslims, the fanatics, but they quickly take over and the majority of muslims just join in to avoid trouble and by solidarity