Islam: Is it inherently Evil?

[dutchie]

MALCOLM Turnbull is set to unveil a plan to secure high-rise pedestrian areas from rogue vehicle attacks similar to what occurred in Barcelona.

Malcolm you would be better off stopping Islamic immigrants coming to this country.

Australia and Islam are incompatible.

 

[dutchie]

http://www.news.com.au/finance/work...t/news-story/ec80593236bd78ebdaeedfce2b1d65b6

THE head of the Halal Certification Authority says Australian women need Muslim men to fertilise them to “keep them surrounded by Muslim babies”, declaring that the “white race will be extinct” in 40 years.

A recent Oxford University study has shown that men who eat pork are more virile and manly than those that don't.

 

[bellenuit]

In Interview, Top Indonesian Muslim Scholar Says Stop Pretending That Orthodox Islam and Violence Aren't Linked

http://amp.timeinc.net/time/4930742/islam-terrorism-islamophobia-violence/?source=dam

 

[basilio]

That was a very interesting story. Well worth reading the full interview rather than stoping at a simplistic headline.

In Interview, Top Indonesian Muslim Scholar Says Stop Pretending That Orthodox Islam and Violence Aren't Linked

A woman puts a candle near the Bataclan concert hall where flowers were laid, after a ceremony marking the first anniversary of the Paris terror attacks on November 13, 2016 in Paris, France. Chesnot—Getty Images
Yahya Cholil Staquf, a leading scholar in the world's largest Muslim-majority country, Indonesia, says traditional Islam has a problem

Marco Stahlhut
Sep 8, 2017 10:56 AM EDT
Indonesia, the world’s biggest Muslim-majority country, has a constitution that recognizes other major religions, and practices a syncretic form of Islam that draws on not just the faith’s tenets but local spiritual and cultural traditions. As a result, the nation has long been a voice of, and for, moderation in the Islamic world.

Yet Indonesia is not without its radical elements. Though most are on the fringe, they can add up to a significant number given Indonesia’s 260-million population. In the early 2000s, the country was terrorized by Jemaah Islamiyah (JI), a homegrown extremist organization allied with al-Qaeda. JI’s deadliest attack was the 2002 Bali bombing that killed 202 people. While JI has been neutralized, ISIS has claimed responsibility for recent, smaller terrorist incidents in the country and has inspired some Indonesians to fight in Syria — Indonesians who could pose a threat when they return home. The country has also seen the rise of hate groups that preach intolerance and violence against local religious and ethnic minorities, which include Shia and Ahmadiya Muslims.

Among Indonesia’s most influential Islamic leaders is Yahya Cholil Staquf, 51,advocates a modern, moderate Islam. He is general secretary of the Nahdlatul Ulama, which, with about 50 million members, is the country’s biggest Muslim organization. Yahya. This interview, notable for Yahya’s candor, was first published on Aug. 19 in German in Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung. Here are excerpts translated from the original Bahasa Indonesia into English.

http://amp.timeinc.net/time/4930742/islam-terrorism-islamophobia-violence/?source=dam

 

[bellenuit]

That was a very interesting story. Well worth reading the full interview rather than stoping at a simplistic headline.

In Interview, Top Indonesian Muslim Scholar Says Stop Pretending That Orthodox Islam and Violence Aren't Linked

A woman puts a candle near the Bataclan concert hall where flowers were laid, after a ceremony marking the first anniversary of the Paris terror attacks on November 13, 2016 in Paris, France. Chesnot—Getty Images
Yahya Cholil Staquf, a leading scholar in the world's largest Muslim-majority country, Indonesia, says traditional Islam has a problem

Marco Stahlhut
Sep 8, 2017 10:56 AM EDT
Indonesia, the world’s biggest Muslim-majority country, has a constitution that recognizes other major religions, and practices a syncretic form of Islam that draws on not just the faith’s tenets but local spiritual and cultural traditions. As a result, the nation has long been a voice of, and for, moderation in the Islamic world.

Yet Indonesia is not without its radical elements. Though most are on the fringe, they can add up to a significant number given Indonesia’s 260-million population. In the early 2000s, the country was terrorized by Jemaah Islamiyah (JI), a homegrown extremist organization allied with al-Qaeda. JI’s deadliest attack was the 2002 Bali bombing that killed 202 people. While JI has been neutralized, ISIS has claimed responsibility for recent, smaller terrorist incidents in the country and has inspired some Indonesians to fight in Syria — Indonesians who could pose a threat when they return home. The country has also seen the rise of hate groups that preach intolerance and violence against local religious and ethnic minorities, which include Shia and Ahmadiya Muslims.

Among Indonesia’s most influential Islamic leaders is Yahya Cholil Staquf, 51,advocates a modern, moderate Islam. He is general secretary of the Nahdlatul Ulama, which, with about 50 million members, is the country’s biggest Muslim organization. Yahya. This interview, notable for Yahya’s candor, was first published on Aug. 19 in German in Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung. Here are excerpts translated from the original Bahasa Indonesia into English.

http://amp.timeinc.net/time/4930742/islam-terrorism-islamophobia-violence/?source=dam

I agree that the interview is worth reading in its entirety and it vindicates what is said in the title. The few paragraphs you quote are on their own misrepresentative of the interview as they give the impression that Islamic violence is confined to some extremist groups. Reading the whole interview it is obvious that he is saying that violence is part and parcel of Islam because of some of the tenets held.

The parts you quoted from the article are just the introduction to the interview by the writer and do not include anything at all from what the Muslim scholar said.

 

[basilio]

I agree that the interview is worth reading in its entirety and it vindicates what is said in the title. The few paragraphs you quote are on their own misrepresentative of the interview as they give the impression that Islamic violence is confined to some extremist groups. Reading the whole interview it is obvious that he is saying that violence is part and parcel of Islam because of some of the tenets held.

The parts you quoted from the article are just the introduction to the interview by the writer and do not include anything at all from what the Muslim scholar said.

I agree the full interview should be read - which is what I said. My posting the introduction was simply that.

He does make a point that 21st Century Islam canot be the fundamentalist ideology that it was in the past. He makes a point that the Muslims and the West need to respond to the fundamental nature of the Saudi government which he sees as dangerous.

Overall I read it as a moderate Muslim leader looking to strengthen a non sectarian relegion against the extremism of some groups. A lot like established Christan Churches reacting to the hate and extremism of fringe evangelical groups.

 

[SirRumpole]

This is what Sharia law means :-

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-09-...r-adultery-conviction-in-sharia-court/8894080

 

[bellenuit]

This is what Sharia law means :-

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-09-...r-adultery-conviction-in-sharia-court/8894080

Apart from the barbaric caning, notice that the Sharia definition of adultery didn't even seem to require sexual contact of any sort. Just being in the presence of a man she was not married to in a private place suffices.

 

[grah33]

From a conversation I had with a muslim they think Islam is good for the human race. You see, if you stone adulterers /homosexuals etc., you discourage everyone else from doing it, which they believe is good for society. I'm guessing it's the same with freedom of speech. If you don't have it, you're going to get rid of speech that is against Islamic values. Again seen as a good thing.
(note: sometimes i don't correctly express what I mean to say)

 

[luutzu]

From a conversation I had with a muslim they think Islam is good for the human race. You see, if you stone adulterers /homosexuals etc., you discourage everyone else from doing it, which they believe is good for society. I'm guessing it's the same with freedom of speech. If you don't have it, you're going to get rid of speech that is against Islamic values. Again seen as a good thing.
(note: sometimes i don't correctly express what I mean to say)

When we define something, anything, we always bring to that definition our own bias and prejudices.

Such bias are often not conscious. We often do not recognise them to be anything but "the truth", never for a moment thought that it's just our own definition, arrived at from our experience, our readings, our surroundings.

In short, Lao Tzu says... the Way that can be defined is not the true Way.

Hence, it is best to call a good when we see it to be a good; an evil when we see it to be evil. Do that rather than use one event over another to define this or that group.

Take Western Civilisation, that greatest civilisation of all time... what defines it? The good bits or the bad bits?

 

[wayneL]

When we define something, anything, we always bring to that definition our own bias and prejudices.

Such bias are often not conscious. We often do not recognise them to be anything but "the truth", never for a moment thought that it's just our own definition, arrived at from our experience, our readings, our surroundings.

In short, Lao Tzu says... the Way that can be defined is not the true Way.

Hence, it is best to call a good when we see it to be a good; an evil when we see it to be evil. Do that rather than use one event over another to define this or that group.

Take Western Civilisation, that greatest civilisation of all time... what defines it? The good bits or the bad bits?

Western society has terminal cancer. It's called The Left.

 

[dutchie]

It's called The Left.

The SOCIALIST Left

 

[Tisme]

The SOCIALIST Left

No it's the "New Left", nothing to do with socialism, unions, marxism, Labor, Liberal and certainly nought to do with the "Workers Paradise" Australia was once so proud both sides of the political fence.

It's academics, the bored twits and nuisance people who reject class struggle and have built on the counter culture revolutions of the sixties youth, hijacked that agenda and gone looking for causes to fix regardless of the consequences, because the consequences add to the list of required fixes.

 

[wayneL]

No it's the "New Left", nothing to do with socialism, unions, marxism, Labor, Liberal and certainly nought to do with the "Workers Paradise" Australia was once so proud both sides of the political fence.

It's academics, the bored twits and nuisance people who reject class struggle and have built on the counter culture revolutions of the sixties youth, hijacked that agenda and gone looking for causes to fix regardless of the consequences, because the consequences add to the list of required fixes.

Yes the socialist left was about the means of production, whether state or privately controlled. This new left is far removed from such quaint economic notions.

It is a intellectual necrotising tumour, fooling half witted, half intelligent folk with its virtue signalling appeal... save the whales, save climate, save the poofs... subtley causing them to betray there own to be included in the bullying elite, so they don't get bullied.

The reason most germans feigned Nazi support, not because they hated Jews, but to avoid being in the very dangerous position of being on the outer

 

[CanOz]

Is Buddism inherintly evil?

Rohingya crisis: Meeting Myanmar's hardline Buddhist monks

 

[SirRumpole]

Is Buddism inherintly evil?

Rohingya crisis: Meeting Myanmar's hardline Buddhist monks

I hope our government doesn't get suckered in to taking any of these trouble makers.

 

[CanOz]

Dalai Lama on Rohingya Muslims: If Buddha happened, he would protect those brothers and sisters

I suspect this should all reside in the "religion is crazy' thread....

 

[watchdog11]

Why do Muslims want to come to Australia, knowing that it is not a Muslim country, then demand to change it. How many non-Muslim Australians got to any Muslim country and demand that they stop being Muslim? And what do you think will be the countries response?

If living in a Muslim country is their desire, then why not go THERE? No disrespect, just common logic!

 

[SirRumpole]

Why do Muslims want to come to Australia, knowing that it is not a Muslim country, then demand to change it. How many non-Muslim Australians got to any Muslim country and demand that they stop being Muslim? And what do you think will be the countries response?

If living in a Muslim country is their desire, then why not go THERE? No disrespect, just common logic!

Muslim countries don't have a generous welfare system like us.

 

[luutzu]

Is Buddism inherintly evil?

Rohingya crisis: Meeting Myanmar's hardline Buddhist monks

Maybe it just show that any religion can be used by those who want to commit genocide, murder and other war crimes.

That generals, militias and warmongers will grab whatever is cool in their country, use that as justification. So it's for Islam, for Buddhism, for freedom and liberty, democracy and civilisation.