Is political correctness going too far?

[Value Collector]

I reckon the best way is to take kids around a department store, see what attracts their interest, then base the toy/present decision on that.

Apart from anything else it would save a lot of disappointment if the child doesn't get what they are interested in.

Yes, offcourse get them some toys they have asked for, but you can always try and nudge them in a direction of a mind expanding toy, the younger you can spark their interest the better, I mean there is a limit to the amount you can learn by brushing dolly's hair and putting her to bed.

It seems that from a young age boys and girls are drilled that pink is for girls and blue is for boys, Almost as soon as they can talk they will tell you pink is for girls, blue is for boys. So when they walk around the department store they will be attracted to the pink frilly mind numbing section, and avoid the blue lego boxes.

I don't know how you can change this besides avoiding bringing you kids up with the idea of gender based colours to start with.

 

[Tisme]

I reckon the best way is to take kids around a department store, see what attracts their interest, then base the toy/present decision on that.

Apart from anything else it would save a lot of disappointment if the child doesn't get what they are interested in.

There were plenty of boys I knew who had dolls, dressed up in mum's clothes with lippy on, made manginas while running under the sprinkler, put arms over the shoulder of their "cobber", kissed their dad.

My own daughter was raised with tools and mechanicals and can do what most men can't when it comes to construction skillsets. She is very feminine, likes teddy bears and sought after by the opposite sex.

 

[SirRumpole]

My own daughter was raised with tools and mechanicals and can do what most men can't when it comes to construction skillsets. She is very feminine, likes teddy bears and sought after by the opposite sex.

Could I have her phone number please ?

My house needs some renovation.

 

[Tisme]

Could I have her phone number please ?

My house needs some renovation.

I think I just posted that my son and I are tools!!!

Shame you don't live in Brisbane ...I have three workshops around the place that have enough gear to open a hire company.

 

[moXJO]

I say guns for the girls, this girl is amazing, she shoots better than a lot of men I have seen in the Army, why deny people based on sex.

Thats more pushing kids into a common hobby/interest. Not sure about other towns but I've been in the boxing, mma, shooting, motorcycle scene and girls have been a big part in all for the last decade. Its not some new thing.
My biggest concern is that boys are falling behind in everything and disconnecting from society. You will never get equal rights if you lose a generation of boys who become jaded.

 

[Value Collector]

My biggest concern is that boys are falling behind in everything and disconnecting from society. You will never get equal rights if you lose a generation of boys who become jaded.

What do you mean, why would we lose a generation of boys become jaded?

 

[moXJO]

What do you mean, why would we lose a generation of boys become jaded?

whoa are you serious? you can impressively recite some of the better posts on gender equality arguments yet ignore male literacy, incarceration rates, suicide levels , mental health to name a few. I mean I get the whole cant walk topless down the street and the whole "free the nipple " campaign but Jesus talk about third world problems and superficial bs.

 

[Value Collector]

whoa are you serious? you can impressively recite some of the better posts on gender equality arguments yet ignore male literacy, incarceration rates, suicide levels , mental health to name a few. I mean I get the whole cant walk topless down the street and the whole "free the nipple " campaign but Jesus talk about third world problems and superficial bs.

What I was really trying to get at was, are you saying that males are becoming jaded because women have become a little more empowered?

To be honest I see a lot of the problems you mentioned stemming from the same gender based indoctrination we touched on earlier, eg books are for girls, boys don't cry, men don't talk about their feelings, etc etc.

 

[Tink]

Exactly, moXJO

The boys are going backwards, and they are pushing them out, back into silence.

Where are the male teachers in the public education system?

There are none.

 

[moXJO]

What I was really trying to get at was, are you saying that males are becoming jaded because women have become a little more empowered?

To be honest I see a lot of the problems you mentioned stemming from the same gender based indoctrination we touched on earlier, eg books are for girls, boys don't cry, men don't talk about their feelings, etc etc.

no Im talking double standards. You will not get equality or even decent communication while we let our young men rot. Domestic violence against men has been classed a joke(a judge told a male victim to suck it up in my town). Equal parenting rights are a joke. Men are being taught they are expendable and that their rights mean nothing. Theres a reason why no one wants to get married anymore.
But my biggest gripe is the education system . Fail boys there and you weaken society. If you want strong women with equal rights , then build up strong educated men.

 

[Value Collector]

Exactly, moXJO

The boys are going backwards, and they are pushing them out, back into silence.

Where are the male teachers in the public education system?

There are none.

I left school 14 years ago, so I have no idea what its like now, but nearly half of the teachers at my high school were male, my memory may be over stating that, but it would have been atleast a third. I can't remember a single female science teacher.

 

[Value Collector]

no Im talking double standards. You will not get equality or even decent communication while we let our young men rot. Domestic violence against men has been classed a joke(a judge told a male victim to suck it up in my town). Equal parenting rights are a joke. Men are being taught they are expendable and that their rights mean nothing. Theres a reason why no one wants to get married anymore.
But my biggest gripe is the education system . Fail boys there and you weaken society. If you want strong women with equal rights , then build up strong educated men.

Domestic violence is still dominated by males, murders are dominated by males.

Yes the educational system needs work, its tough to get boys reading when it's not cool for boys to read, I agree men need more rights in relation to children. But across the board, especially outside australia, its women who lag well behind men when it comes to human rights.

 

[moXJO]

Domestic violence is still dominated by males, murders are dominated by males.

Yes the educational system needs work, its tough to get boys reading when it's not cool for boys to read, I agree men need more rights in relation to children. But across the board, especially outside australia, its women who lag well behind men when it comes to human rights.

Shaming tactics won't work, neither will statistics if you have already failed to raise a well adjusted person.If anything they just hate a little more.
In my opinion if you catch boys early with education a lot of the other problems fix themselves. Boys also lack the emotional intelligence that women have. Understanding this better at a younger age would probably boost their conflict resolution later on.
Any way my point is mainly that if you create a divide between the sexes through hate and blame then one/both sides stop listening. Creating double standards furthers that gap.
New millennium feminism simply fails.

I'm not anti-women either. I enjoy being surrounded by strong intelligent women.
And have no problem supporting womens rights. I do have a problem with hating/point scoring for sake of gender from either side.

 

[SirRumpole]

I left school 14 years ago, so I have no idea what its like now, but nearly half of the teachers at my high school were male, my memory may be over stating that, but it would have been atleast a third. I can't remember a single female science teacher.

A bit of basic research indicates that men represent less than 30% of the teaching staff in government schools. They are being attracted to non government schools by higher pay rates. I would venture to suggest that higher discipline standards in private schools may also be a factor.

Although it's obviously not PC, it would be interesting to see a correlation between DV and divorce rates by whether they went to public or private schools, and if the lack of male role models in public schools has an impact.

Public school system losing male teachers
Non-government schools' male staff up 25pc
Better pay attracting men to private education

AUSTRALIA'S public schools are in the grip of a man drought.

But it's raining men in the non-government sector, where the number of male teachers has grown 25 per cent since 2001.

At the same time, the number of male teachers has dropped 2 per cent at the nation's public schools, Australian Bureau of Statistics figures reveal.

Schools have struggled to attract male teachers to the female-dominated profession.

Teachers can earn more money in the non-government sector but there can also be more demands outside school hours, such as Saturday sport.

The New South Wales Department of Education and Communities said the national trend was reflected at the state's schools but they also had a very low resignation rate.

Last year there were 15,274 male teachers at public schools, representing about 27 per cent of teaching staff.

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In 2001, male teachers made up about 31 per cent. There were 9734 male teachers in the non-government sector - about 30 per cent of the teaching workforce. In 2001, male teachers represented 23 per cent.

A department spokesman said strategies were in place to recruit more male teachers but quality was more important than gender.

One man happy to be working in the public system is 29-year-old Mark Platt, who teaches Year 6 students at Kellyville Ridge Public School.

The school has almost 800 students from the boom suburbs in Sydney's northwest and nine male teachers - a rarity in the public primary system.

Mr Platt said the pay rate was probably the reason men were attracted to the non-government sector but he enjoyed the challenges of a public school.

"I'm happy where I am and couldn't see myself at another school," he said.

The school's assistant principal, Luke Hogan, said he chose to teach at a public school because he believed in its values.

He said male teachers could provide a positive role model to boys who may not have a man in the family home.

"Every child deserves to have access to an education, whether their families can afford it or not," he said.

James Galea, 24, is the only male teacher in his nine-person faculty at Mitchell High School in Blacktown, which he said reflected the perception that teaching was not an attractive career path for men.

The English and drama teacher said his wife taught in the non-government sector and earned more money than him but the main difference between the two sectors was facilities.



former teacher of nsw Posted at 4:11 AM March 31, 2012

I am en ex teacher in NSW. I ultimately left because I witnessed (and was my duty of care to break up) the bashing of a student. This was not including the 200 watching and egging on the fight. One student was beaten to a pulp whilst the other was congratulated and slapped on the back by the watching students. Certainly it was not the first fight I had broken up but this one broke me professionally. I received no support from the department and to this date I have lost all the confidence and ability to work as a teacher. I too would not encourage ANYONE to become a teacher. Maybe I am just broken. I used to love it once, but I just cant do it anymore.

Former teacher of Sunshine Coast Posted at 2:01 AM March 31, 2012

Was a primary teacher in Qld for over 30 years. Loved the job, the challenge and working with parents and kids. Mostly a rewarding job. So many kids had no one to show them that a man in their life was not the one who beat them, their mum, bashed their mum, or was the one their mum had a sleep over the previous night. Working in my room at morning break or lunch and a kid walked in meant a witness needed. Time took its toll and I am no longer a teacher. I am no longer working. I would not recommend teaching to anyone. Male or female.

http://www.news.com.au/national/pub...-scores-more-men/story-e6frfkvr-1226314953736

 

[Value Collector]

A bit of basic research indicates that men represent less than 30% of the teaching staff in government schools. .

25% is not bad, I thought it would be around 30%, so I wasn't far off

Where are the male teachers in the public education system?

There are none.

Turns out there are a lot more than none.

 

[SirRumpole]

25% is not bad, I thought it would be around 30%, so I wasn't far off

Hardly satisfactory though is it ?

 

[Value Collector]

Shaming tactics won't work, neither will statistics if you have already failed to raise a well adjusted person.If anything they just hate a little more.
In my opinion if you catch boys early with education a lot of the other problems fix themselves.

It does sort of relate to the issue that was discussed earlier in my opinion, The "Guns for boys and Dolls for girls" crowd are responsible for putting gender into certain childhood activities, and I think a lot of them think books fall into the same category as dolls. I know when I was young books were not a "cool" thing for boys, but the vast majority of girls read books for fun, and when giving gifts to my nieces and nephews, books are much more readily accepted by the nieces.

Creating double standards furthers that gap.

I don't think anything I have said is in favour of double standards existing.

 

[Value Collector]

Hardly satisfactory though is it ?

there are no laws that stop males teaching, I think less males just choose it as a profession, just like less females choose a other professions. In Australia only 9.6% of Engineers are women.

We can't mandate certain percentages of male/female, they have to choose to do it.

Maybe if more girls played with lego , meccano sets and electrical hobby sets instead of dolls, we would have more female engineers, maybe if young boys thought books were cool, they would have a better time in school and pursue teaching careers.

if you indoctrinate kids into gender roles from the crib, you can't complain about a lack of gender diversity in adult hood.

"Boys get guns, girls get dolls", Is it really a surprise that women only make up less than 15% of the permanent positions in the Army, while men make up only 10% of nurses?

 

[moXJO]

I don't think anything I have said is in favour of double standards existing.

You mentioned domestic violence against women was higher as an argument. I'm saying domestic violence is wrong period. White ribbon day fails in that respect as well.
I agree with most of what you have said, but you are more focused on cure not prevention. I am not disagreeing with you, just that you should view giving male issues attention might go a long way towards solving female ones.

 

[SirRumpole]

there are no laws that stop males teaching, I think less males just choose it as a profession, just like less females choose a other professions. In Australia only 9.6% of Engineers are women.

The point is that the percentage of males teachers is declining. They provide a role model and discipline for boys.

Female teachers have a lot more trouble controlling classes of boys and discipline is going downhill. The link between this and falling educational standards, high youth unemployment, increasing drunkeness and disorder needs to be investigated. It's a societal problem and one that can't be swept under the carpet with a shrug.