Is political correctness going too far?

[Tink]

McLovin, once you start with this Protestant slave owner rubbish, I am not listening.

Yes, he was ONE of the Founding Fathers of the US Constitution, would be enough.

It is the same as the ones that wanted Rhodes gone, but happy to take on the scholarship, imv.

 

[McLovin]

McLovin, once you start with this Protestant slave owner rubbish, I am not listening.

Yes, he was ONE of the Founding Fathers of the US Constitution, would be enough.

It is the same as the ones that wanted Rhodes gone, but happy to take on the scholarship, imv.

Half of them owned slaves. Of the over 200 signatories, seven were Catholic (rest assured there were no Jews or Muslims). Protestant, slave owners seems pretty apt.

It's no accident of history that it took almost 200 years for the United States to elect a Catholic as President. If you want to get misty eyed over sectarianism, go for your life. It seems odd for a Catholic to want to go back to an era when you faced so much discrimination.

 

[orr]

BatonRouge july 2016.
yeah it's 2017; no carry over from the slave past here....

 

[Tisme]

Half of them owned slaves. Of the over 200 signatories, seven were Catholic (rest assured there were no Jews or Muslims). Protestant, slave owners seems pretty apt.

It's no accident of history that it took almost 200 years for the United States to elect a Catholic as President. If you want to get misty eyed over sectarianism, go for your life. It seems odd for a Catholic to want to go back to an era when you faced so much discrimination.

I'm not too sure what it is you have an issue with? Muslims were and still are the wholesalers of slaves, the Moors were famous slavers and the Spanish Catholics followed suit, Spanish and Portuguese take over of the New World saw massive slavery of the locals and imported Africans.

 

[McLovin]

I'm not too sure what it is you have an issue with?

That Donald Trump will "transform America back to its origins". As though everything that has happened since 1776 was a step backwards. America wasn't beer and skittles back then, unless you were a WASP.

I guess if it means Macy's puts "Merry Christmas" in its display windows then there's no too high a price.

 

[Tisme]

That Donald Trump will "transform America back to its origins". As though everything that has happened since 1776 was a step backwards. America wasn't beer and skittles back then, unless you were a WASP.

I guess if it means Macy's puts "Merry Christmas" in its display windows then there's no too high a price.

I doubt the WASPs you refer were in plentiful supply, even in the land of superman and opportunity. Careful examination will probably debunk many myths, but there is truth in Catholics being pinged in public office, because of their conflict of interest between spiritual masters and national masters .... the protestants weren't going to give away the freedoms they won with bloody revolution after one and a half thousand years of repressive unyielding superstition ...... commoners like you and me couldn't get a ticket to the catholic churches until the counter- reformation of the Catholic Church recognised the protestants were actually onto something Christian.

 

[Tink]

Thanks for your reply, McLovin, on the Christian origins of the US Constitution, and their Founding Fathers who set up that country on
Life and Liberty etc

As I have said about our own country, our Christian heritage is our foundations.
Sadly, nothing has been taught about our History in the public education department, but thankfully, ASF keeps people updated.

Just as they established the separation of Church and State, so did we.
And part of this separation, was to avoid tyranny, that the State would not impose on the people.
Small governments.

This was about Christmas, and its Christian origins, which was pointed out that it now no longer has its Christian heritage that the Founding Fathers established.

Just my views.

 

[luutzu]

Thanks for your reply, McLovin, on the Christian origins of the US Constitution, and their Founding Fathers who set up that country on
Life and Liberty etc

As I have said about our own country, our Christian heritage is our foundations.
Sadly, nothing has been taught about our History in the public education department, but thankfully, ASF keeps people updated.

Just as they established the separation of Church and State, so did we.
And part of this separation, was to avoid tyranny, that the State would not impose on the people.
Small governments.

This was about Christmas, and its Christian origins, which was pointed out that it now no longer has its Christian heritage that the Founding Fathers established.

Just my views.

But if the Church was separated from the State at its founding, how does all the awesomeness that follow be due to the Church? It was separated. Its power and influence castrated. It was cast aside.

Not sure why the Church would want credit for what comes after the founding of the US, Australia and other "New World" in South America, Africa and other continents.

The kind of genocidal, imperial expansion that spread there make ISIS look like a bunch of murderous thugs with a couple of utes.

Even when peace came, you'd still not want to be involve in those policies. What with the Lost Generation in Australia; women's non-rights and being the property of their father or husband; slave being worth 2/3rd the White...

Seems the good old days were only good for the privileged White plantation owners. That's the same as today.

 

[Tisme]

But if the Church was separated from the State at its founding, how does all the awesomeness that follow be due to the Church? It was separated. Its power and influence castrated. It was cast aside.

Because there is a distinction between state political and individual spiritually ethical persuasions. It is an undeniable truth that British Christianity in it's matured state in the 1700s was the catalyst for the US desire for freedoms it has tried to engender in its and consequently the Australian political agenda. British Christianity is Anglican (Evangelical in the US), Roman Catholic, Presbyterian, etc that all took a different separation of state and spiritual path than Europe after the regicidal and brutally anti catholic rule of Oliver Cromwell. The people who constructed the US and Australian constitution were ethically washed in Christianity.

 

[luutzu]

Because there is a distinction between state political and individual spiritually ethical persuasions. It is an undeniable truth that British Christianity in it's matured state in the 1700s was the catalyst for the US desire for freedoms it has tried to engender in its and consequently the Australian political agenda. British Christianity is Anglican (Evangelical in the US), Roman Catholic, Presbyterian, etc that all took a different separation of state and spiritual path than Europe after the regicidal and brutally anti catholic rule of Oliver Cromwell. The people who constructed the US and Australian constitution were ethically washed in Christianity.

OK. So when did the good work of the Church stop and the nasty business of imperialism begin?

Can't really just claim the good bits but blame the bad bits on a few bad actors. Can we?

Seeing how the Egyptians, Greeks, Persians, Romans... have all done Empire pretty well before Christ was immaculately conceived. Maybe Christianity is just another tool great men of destiny uses to control and conquer.

Maybe all these "PC" about Happy Holidays instead of Happy Jesus' Birthday has all to do with merchants and creative capitalists figuring that they can sell more stuff if the other 6/7th of the world's population got into the act of celebrating peace and giving, lots and lots of (buying and) giving.

 

[Tisme]

OK. So when did the good work of the Church stop and the nasty business of imperialism begin?

Can't really just claim the good bits but blame the bad bits on a few bad actors. Can we?

Seeing how the Egyptians, Greeks, Persians, Romans... have all done Empire pretty well before Christ was immaculately conceived. Maybe Christianity is just another tool great men of destiny uses to control and conquer.

Maybe all these "PC" about Happy Holidays instead of Happy Jesus' Birthday has all to do with merchants and creative capitalists figuring that they can sell more stuff if the other 6/7th of the world's population got into the act of celebrating peace and giving, lots and lots of (buying and) giving.

Sir John Hawkins started the Brits into the slave trade, which ended up a monopoly venture, supplying all the other european empire colonies in the New World.

The British started the protest against slavery in the 1770's, which obviously caused the American Colonists to have conniptions. The South Carolina rice plantation owners went into overdrive and enlisted the Royal Courts of Russia and France to give impetus to a quick secession, things like the Boston Tea party were symptoms of mass hysteria whipped up by the wealthy slavers. The British Empire made laws forbidding Britons to participate in slave trading in 1807 and outlawed it in the Emancipation Act of 1833.

I don't know of many Empires that would equal the British one and I'm not too sure any of the others had the social conscience to invent an unstoppable industrial revolution, encourage science and innovation without religious interference, emancipate slaves, empower and universally educate the working class, give rule of law and parliament to the world.

You seem to fixate on a 400 year seemingly brutality that by comparison to their contemporary European counterparts was sublime and by any measure was far less barbarian than the cultures they subdued. You only have to look at how the Islamic thugs behave to get a glimpse of primitives who need civilising. Romanticising of cultures only a few generations back as somehow benign and benevolent being victimised by whitey are fanciful by any measure.... it wasn't that long ago that our Christian educated Australians freed the sub continent from Japanese warlords who enjoyed the genocide of Chinese cities and the brutal enslavement and indiscriminate mass killing and torture of SE Asian peasants, far worse than the dick4ea9 French.

 

[luutzu]

Sir John Hawkins started the Brits into the slave trade, which ended up a monopoly venture, supplying all the other european empire colonies in the New World.

The British started the protest against slavery in the 1770's, which obviously caused the American Colonists to have conniptions. The South Carolina rice plantation owners went into overdrive and enlisted the Royal Courts of Russia and France to give impetus to a quick secession, things like the Boston Tea party were symptoms of mass hysteria whipped up by the wealthy slavers. The British Empire made laws forbidding Britons to participate in slave trading in 1807 and outlawed it in the Emancipation Act of 1833.

I don't know of many Empires that would equal the British one and I'm not too sure any of the others had the social conscience to invent an unstoppable industrial revolution, encourage science and innovation without religious interference, emancipate slaves, empower and universally educate the working class, give rule of law and parliament to the world.

You seem to fixate on a 400 year seemingly brutality that by comparison to their contemporary European counterparts was sublime and by any measure was far less barbarian than the cultures they subdued. You only have to look at how the Islamic thugs behave to get a glimpse of primitives who need civilising. Romanticising of cultures only a few generations back as somehow benign and benevolent being victimised by whitey are fanciful by any measure.... it wasn't that long ago that our Christian educated Australians freed the sub continent from Japanese warlords who enjoyed the genocide of Chinese cities and the brutal enslavement and indiscriminate mass killing and torture of SE Asian peasants, far worse than the dick4ea9 French.

A bit too early in the year for this kind of rationalisation isn't it Captain Arthur McGee? Shouldn't we save these for Australia Day, or the Queen's Birthday perhaps?

The problems with Empires are not so much its "peace" years, it's the years of slaughter preceding those years of peace and harvesting.

So take what you said above... Hawkins started the British slave trade, monopolises it and a few years later British imperial civility banned its trade in 1807 then outlawed it in 1833.

Oh look, the American Revolution kicked the Brits out by 1783, Napoleon and his French Empire was mucking around ruining British interests; and look, the Industrial Revolution kinda pick up around the early 1800s too.

A few happy coincidences of kindness and humanity that also serve Britain's own industries while weakening those of their former colonies and peer rival.


I thought genocide is genocide. How does one do it more nicely? Less barbaric-ly?

Does driving them into the desert and let nature deal with them more civilised than, say, gas them or bury them alive in mass graves? Does killing the buffaloes that is their main source of food, shelter and industry more enlightened than having to send out the cavalry to take them on?

So the Nazi didn't see their warmongering as peace-keeping? Imperial Japan didn't see them butchering cities and starving the colonies as sacrifices to be made so that all of Asia can rise to more enlightened position within a unified empire?

As to the British empire... Alexander's was quite nice to his conquered territories. All he did was renamed their cities, give a standard rule of law and set up a few governors. Other than that, the country can just bury its dead and carry on as normal.

Same with Genghis Khan and its various Khannates all over the place. Same with Napoleon and his Civil Code... did you know his need for a secured source of supplies led to canned food we all enjoy today?

Or take Chin'a first emperor. All he did was slaughter a about 7 other states nearby; standardise the legal code, dress code, language, money and systems of trades and administration... then they all became one big happy family of Chin when the Han took over and further pacify the nearby barbarians.

 

[Tisme]

A bit too early in the year for this kind of rationalisation isn't it Captain Arthur McGee? Shouldn't we save these for Australia Day, or the Queen's Birthday perhaps?

I just need to know pragmatism is winning out over revisionist histories. Don't want you going all radicalised and carphologistic.

 

[luutzu]

I just need to know pragmatism is winning out over revisionist histories. Don't want you going all radicalised and carphologistic.

What's "carphologistic". I think you just broke my google

Don't worry about me. I watch way too many YouTube to listen to any idiot warrior king and their wannabes. Might even step up to save Australia one day... now where's that cape icon ... wait, that could be mistaken for them masked idiots.... here go armchair warrior

 

[pixel]

So why was the emphasis placed on HAPPY HOLIDAYS and not Merry Xmas....Very crafty left wing tactic....Kate Ellis is a Fabian so therefore she would be an atheist and they would do anything to remove religion from our society.

You're clutching at straws, noco;
"She is a Fabian, so she must be an atheist and do her worst to harm religious people."
Turn it around to describe the nazi that started the kerfuffle, and it becomes
"He pretends to be a Christian, so he hates everybody not paying lip service to his ideas and tries his worst to find excuses for splashing mud." What a true Christian attitude!

PS: Some well-meaning, but gullible friend of mine fell for the fake as well and forwarded the hate email to me today. Proves how easily simple folks can be hoodwinked and made to believe absolute BS. Yet it's so easy to get to the truth. All it takes is a healthy dose of skepticism and asking yourself "Who might have an interest in spreading this piece of manure?" When in doubt, Google!

 

[noco]

You're clutching at straws, noco;
"She is a Fabian, so she must be an atheist and do her worst to harm religious people."
Turn it around to describe the nazi that started the kerfuffle, and it becomes
"He pretends to be a Christian, so he hates everybody not paying lip service to his ideas and tries his worst to find excuses for splashing mud." What a true Christian attitude!

PS: Some well-meaning, but gullible friend of mine fell for the fake as well and forwarded the hate email to me today. Proves how easily simple folks can be hoodwinked and made to believe absolute BS. Yet it's so easy to get to the truth. All it takes is a healthy dose of skepticism and asking yourself "Who might have an interest in spreading this piece of manure?" When in doubt, Google!

I guess you would have been hoodwinked with Labor's MEDISCARE like a lot of other gullible people.

 

[SirRumpole]

I guess you would have been hoodwinked with Labor's MEDISCARE like a lot of other gullible people.

When out pointed, try the diversionary tactic.

 

[noco]

When out pointed, try the diversionary tactic.

I learned that one from you Rumpy....You are a past master at that caper.

 

[moXJO]

PC did go too far, now we have nationalism breeding as a result of pushing people to the edges of the spectrum.
The world is a bit of a tinder box of hatred right now.
Russia's ultra right basically has Nazis attacking and killing immigrants. They have no qualms in pushing the "white is right" motto.
The Russian people fanatically love Putin, with that shade of Hitler feel.

Philippines leader is a certified nutball murdering junkies, drug dealers and anyone that gets in the way. Also decided to join in on Russian military exercises.

American's have the "alt" right gaining momentum. With a trump win- the worst the right has to offer has crawled emboldened from under their rocks.

And here we have the idiotic 'one nation' trying to form coherent and offensive sentences, but nevertheless gaining momentum in parliament.
I didn't even mention China, Europe or the middle East.

The left and right moderates will need to come together in the center. The extremes on either side seems to be filling to fast. Better Governing from our PM is a must.

 

[noco]

PC did go too far, now we have nationalism breeding as a result of pushing people to the edges of the spectrum.
The world is a bit of a tinder box of hatred right now.
Russia's ultra right basically has Nazis attacking and killing immigrants. They have no qualms in pushing the "white is right" motto.
The Russian people fanatically love Putin, with that shade of Hitler feel.

Philippines leader is a certified nutball murdering junkies, drug dealers and anyone that gets in the way. Also decided to join in on Russian military exercises.

American's have the "alt" right gaining momentum. With a trump win- the worst the right has to offer has crawled emboldened from under their rocks.

And here we have the idiotic 'one nation' trying to form coherent and offensive sentences, but nevertheless gaining momentum in parliament.
I didn't even mention China, Europe or the middle East.

The left and right moderates will need to come together in the center. The extremes on either side seems to be filling to fast. Better Governing from our PM is a must.

If the two major parties won't listen to what many people are thinking and you have a party that will, then so be it if the major parties suffer....It is called people power and there is a political revolution on the way.

If Turnbull tore up the Paris agreement, stopped the immigration of any more Muslims, deported the radical and extremist Muslims, cut back on Muslim welfare and took a stand on the excessive use of renewable energy, his popularity would rise over night......Over the past few years with modern communications the media are controlling the way politicians think and act.

They are gutless and always fearing popularity back lash from the media who are quick to criticize and ridicule any decisions that are made.