Is Global Warming becoming unstoppable?

[Smurf1976]

Any sizeable pumped hydro plans in train for Tasmanias existing dam network?

"Battery Of The Nation" is the marketing term being used for a large number of pumped hydro projects being investigated in Tas at the moment.

How far it progresses will be heavily influenced by national politics but the Tas projects do have the advantage of being able to be built in stages, it's not an all or nothing scenario, so most likely at least some will end up going head but what goes in in Canberra is ultimately a very key factor there.

Also needs the Vic government on side given the whole point of it is about supplying power into Vic not locally into Tas.

 

[explod]

The party continues unabated.:-


"Arctic’s strongest sea ice breaks up for first time on record


Usually frozen waters open up twice this year in phenomenon scientists described as scary..."

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...st-sea-ice-breaks-up-for-first-time-on-record

 

[Tisme]

"Battery Of The Nation" is the marketing term being used for a large number of pumped hydro projects being investigated in Tas at the moment.

How far it progresses will be heavily influenced by national politics but the Tas projects do have the advantage of being able to be built in stages, it's not an all or nothing scenario, so most likely at least some will end up going head but what goes in in Canberra is ultimately a very key factor there.

Also needs the Vic government on side given the whole point of it is about supplying power into Vic not locally into Tas.

Abbott and Matthias will have legislated a couple of coal fired stations before xmas, relegating water storage dams.

I was thinking about the use of "battery" and I wonder when did we start talking in adjectives, verbs, etc instead of nouns .... very aboriginal language style

 

[explod]

"It is time to acknowledge that climate change is real and to start healing our planet.

The entire Northern Hemisphere has been in the grips of an unprecedented heat wave this year. Asia, Europe, Africa and North America saw several countries reeling under record-breaking temperatures. In 1977, Athens recorded the highest ever temperature in continental Europe at 48°C. That record may very well be broken by the extraordinary heat wave currently sweeping the Iberian Peninsula.

In Japan, the deadly heat wave killed 96 people in July alone — a number that is likely to increase 170% by 2080. Kumagaya, near Tokyo, has seen temperatures rise above 41°C(106°F) for the first time in the country’s history, with more than 22,000 people, predominantly elderly, seeking medical attention across Japan. Heat stroke from sustained high temperatures has claimed the lives of 29 people in South Korea, where temperatures reached the highest point in 111 years in the capital Seoul.

In Quebec province alone, more than 34 people have lost their lives on account of the heat wave, with an estimated 70 deaths attributed to the scorching temperature and high humidity across Canada. The United States celebrated its Independence Day with blistering temperatures across the Northeast and 80 million people in 14 states under a heat advisory warning. The Death Valley in the Mojave Desert in California holds the record for the highest ever temperature measured on planet Earth at 56.7°C (134°F). While that record set in 1913 still holds, Death Valley has seen the hottest July to date, with the monthly average temperatures above 42°C (107°F), with the mercury topping 52.7°C (127°F) four days in a row."...

https://www.fairobserver.com/region...e-2018-climate-change-environment-news-71621/

 

[Tisme]

"It is time to acknowledge that climate change is real and to start healing our planet.

The entire Northern Hemisphere has been in the grips of an unprecedented heat wave this year. Asia, Europe, Africa and North America saw several countries reeling under record-breaking temperatures. In 1977, Athens recorded the highest ever temperature in continental Europe at 48°C. That record may very well be broken by the extraordinary heat wave currently sweeping the Iberian Peninsula.

In Japan, the deadly heat wave killed 96 people in July alone — a number that is likely to increase 170% by 2080. Kumagaya, near Tokyo, has seen temperatures rise above 41°C(106°F) for the first time in the country’s history, with more than 22,000 people, predominantly elderly, seeking medical attention across Japan. Heat stroke from sustained high temperatures has claimed the lives of 29 people in South Korea, where temperatures reached the highest point in 111 years in the capital Seoul.

In Quebec province alone, more than 34 people have lost their lives on account of the heat wave, with an estimated 70 deaths attributed to the scorching temperature and high humidity across Canada. The United States celebrated its Independence Day with blistering temperatures across the Northeast and 80 million people in 14 states under a heat advisory warning. The Death Valley in the Mojave Desert in California holds the record for the highest ever temperature measured on planet Earth at 56.7°C (134°F). While that record set in 1913 still holds, Death Valley has seen the hottest July to date, with the monthly average temperatures above 42°C (107°F), with the mercury topping 52.7°C (127°F) four days in a row."...

https://www.fairobserver.com/region...e-2018-climate-change-environment-news-71621/

Bruce Leigh died of heatstroke too.

1896, 1908, 1939... now they were heat stroke years!

https://www.climatescience.org.au/sites/default/files/Heatwave fatalities_Coates, Haynes et al.pdf

 

[explod]

Bruce Leigh died of heatstroke too.

1896, 1908, 1939... now they were heat stroke years!

https://www.climatescience.org.au/sites/default/files/Heatwave fatalities_Coates, Haynes et al.pdf

On what is actually happening now the article is pretty useless as it only records to 2010.

And on deaths heat related, if we accept this report we have better cover these days. In fact a very good one is to hop in the car with the aircon on.

Just the last few years heat deaths have gone through the roof, recently hundreds at a time within weeks of each other.

 

[Tisme]

Just the last few years heat deaths have gone through the roof, recently hundreds at a time within weeks of each other.

Remember that Japan has an aging population too. But I'm open to any legit counter stats you have.

e.g. 1980 in USA was a doozy compared to 2015

 

[cynic]

Have a look out the xxxking window Wayne and see what CC reality looks like.

The research on the reality of CC happening as a result of GG emissions is over. All the research now is how fast this is happening, what could be the consequences and what can we do to survive.

But don't worry mate. Your favourite good 'ol boy is still busily destroying anyhthing with the word CC on it to pretend nothing is happening. He'll take care of you..

Recently someone made the daring decision to make mention of CC in another thread, thereby inadvertantly (or so I presume) prompting a discussion around that theme.

I suspect a few of us here at ASF, may wish to share their views about the bolded section of this post, which was made (during the ensuing discussion) to the TDS thread.

Due to the propensity of such themes, to overwhelm otherwise worthwhile discussions, I believe that it might be better to redirect the CC aspects of that discussion to this thread.

So to keep things moving along, a general question for bas, or anyone sharing similar views, about the, somewhat, curious claim, being made in that bolded section.

Is the research, in an absolute sense, truly over, or is it only truly over in the minds of the more zealous of adherents to AGW and/or ACC philosophy?

If you are claiming it to be over, in absolute terms, what is your basis for arriving at that particular belief?

 

[fiftyeight]

Instead of getting bogged down in semantics cynic it would be nice if you started this discussion by stating what your position is on climate change?

Not the definition of of truth or truly or belief or absolute or majority just in simple laymen terms explain terms your position, to get the thread going.

 

[moXJO]

Heres my position:
Too many people.
To much pollution.
And in the grand scheme of things the planet is up the creek no matter how much Australia cuts down. We want to have meaningful effect then stop exporting coal.

In saying that, I would like to see a shift towards renewables on a sensible plan.

I don't think mines should be under water catchments or on ag land.
I'm fine with a reduction of pollution and plastics.
I'm fine with the majority of eco friendly measures.

But I would rather see money spent on fortifying against climate change then save the planet wankery.
Water and food security being the main ones. But the effects of heat and city studies and millions of other things need attention before we get to the crunch.

 

[cynic]

Instead of getting bogged down in semantics cynic it would be nice if you started this discussion by stating what your position is on climate change?

Not the definition of of truth or truly or belief or absolute or majority just in simple laymen terms explain terms your position, to get the thread going.

My position is:

I believe that the climate has been continually changing, since inception, and that those changes are largely in accordance with natural cycles.

Correlations are often hastily conflated with causation, leading to unreliable conclusions.

The objective practice of science, has long since left the laboratory.

Mankind has simply created yet another apocalyptic religion, one which, like numerous others before it, is accompanied with a height of hysteria, that has rendered it unhelpful to the objective practice of scientific research.

Some idealists, recognising an opportunity in the confusion, have weaponised the apocalyptic ideology, in order to employ it in their covert war against Western capitalism.

Objective scientific research, free from political influence, is what is ideally required, in order to have confidence in answers to the what, why and how questions (i.e. What is happening?, Why is it happening?, How is it a problem?).

 

[luutzu]

My position is:

I believe that the climate has been continually changing, since inception, and that those changes are largely in accordance with natural cycles.

Correlations are often hastily conflated with causation, leading to unreliable conclusions.

The objective practice of science, has long since left the laboratory.

Mankind has simply created yet another apocalyptic religion, one which, like numerous others before it, is accompanied with a height of hysteria, that has rendered it unhelpful to the objective practice of scientific research.

Some idealists, recognising an opportunity in the confusion, have weaponised the apocalyptic ideology, in order to employ it in their covert war against Western capitalism.

Objective scientific research, free from political influence, is what is ideally required, in order to have confidence in answers to the what, why and how questions (i.e. What is happening?, Why is it happening?, How is it a problem?).

All those climate scientists sold out did they?

Since it sure ain't the fossil fuel industry's that did the buying, who did they sell out to? George Soros and other Hollywood liberals? The Chinese?

"Why" would climate change be a problem? Did you seriously just asked that?

Saw a news clip where a grown Indian man was in tears telling the reporter how his home was simply swept away without a trace. How his daughter is now at an orphanage, their clothes and food are donated by passerby because everything got freakin swept away.

Why is climate change a problem?

Well, if these largest flood in a century; worst bush fire in decades; biggest cyclone season; decade, hundred year "natural" event keep happening worst and worst each year... I guess that's just life.

 

[luutzu]

Heres my position:
Too many people.
To much pollution.
And in the grand scheme of things the planet is up the creek no matter how much Australia cuts down. We want to have meaningful effect then stop exporting coal.

In saying that, I would like to see a shift towards renewables on a sensible plan.

I don't think mines should be under water catchments or on ag land.
I'm fine with a reduction of pollution and plastics.
I'm fine with the majority of eco friendly measures.

But I would rather see money spent on fortifying against climate change then save the planet wankery.
Water and food security being the main ones. But the effects of heat and city studies and millions of other things need attention before we get to the crunch.

Whether or not climate change exist... Just transition towards renewable.

Clean air, clean water... that two alone are pretty good things to have.

Then there's the new jobs, new industry, cutting back on transporting the fuel... rail or pipeline or sea lane... We got the Sun delivering all the potential energy right to our door step each day, literally.

But if the sun don't shine, there's the wind. if the wind don't blow and the sun don't shine, take a break from work. It'll be back soon enough.

It is just ridiculous to rely on something that's not renewable when a clear alternative is right there.

 

[Tisme]

All those climate scientists sold out did they?

They certainly got rewarded for effort.

The problem is armchair experts hunting down outlandish articles to believe in and reparrot them ... you know like unachievable average global wetbulbs and mean dry bulb rises that don't correlate with hard science e.g. NASA and National Geo.

 

[cynic]

All those climate scientists sold out did they?

Since it sure ain't the fossil fuel industry's that did the buying, who did they sell out to? George Soros and other Hollywood liberals? The Chinese?

"Why" would climate change be a problem? Did you seriously just asked that?

Saw a news clip where a grown Indian man was in tears telling the reporter how his home was simply swept away without a trace. How his daughter is now at an orphanage, their clothes and food are donated by passerby because everything got freakin swept away.

Why is climate change a problem?

Well, if these largest flood in a century; worst bush fire in decades; biggest cyclone season; decade, hundred year "natural" event keep happening worst and worst each year... I guess that's just life.

Luutzu, those interested in understanding the reality, from a scientific perspective, need to look a lot further than sensationalised headlines, and faulty statistics.

Until you are willing to do so, I see little point in debating your religious choices.

 

[basilio]

he problem is armchair experts hunting down outlandish articles to believe in and reparrot them ... you know like unachievable average global wetbulbs and mean dry bulb rises that don't correlate with hard science e.g. NASA and National Geo.

Ok I bite back Mr 12C Tizzie.

I appreciate that you regularly repackage reality to suit your particular purpose but let's be clear about why I rode you into the dust and would do so again and again on your absurd statements about the world needing to warm up an average of 12C to cause catastrophic heat strokes.

I opened discussion on a peer reviewed scientific paper that noted that some of the most populated parts of China would face catastophic heatwaves from 2070 onwards with the current continuation of global warming. The paper focused on this region... just because it did. That didn't mean that many other areas of the world aren't facing similar or perhaps worse situations.

Somehow, somehow.. 12cTizzie comes up with a mathematical basis for stating with total mathematical certainty that the world will need to see a 12C increase in temperatures for this scenario to occur.

Never mind that we are already seeing examples of this today in a number of regions. Never mind that the temperature extremes that would see heatwaves produce these situatiosn are on the horizon in many situations. Never mind the clear absurdity of postulating anyone human actually being around if the world does warm up by 12C. Nope discussion over. The books, accoording to Tizzie, say this figure. Ignore what is happening on teh ground. Don't ask any questions.
_______________________

There is nothing outlandish in the scores of scientific papers looking at the current effects of CC and trying to consider how future increase in temperature will affect everything in the world.

What is outlandish is a ignoring the window on the world that we have and disregaring the work of every expert in the field in favour of a sliver of crocks in the pay of the fossil fuel industry.

 

[luutzu]

Luutzu, those interested in understanding the reality, from a scientific perspective, need to look a lot further than sensationalised headlines, and faulty statistics.

Until you are willing to do so, I see little point in debating your religious choices.

So all the new record breaking weather events; the ever increasing average temperature over the past two decades; the worst floods here, the worst drought there; the 100+ bush fire in the US; the wildfire in Canada; the couple bushfire in Winter in NSW... those are just normal weather event then?

If you say so.

 

[IFocus]

Luutzu, those interested in understanding the reality, from a scientific perspective, need to look a lot further than sensationalised headlines, and faulty statistics.

Until you are willing to do so, I see little point in debating your religious choices.

You are kidding surely

WA has absolutely irrefutable stats showing climate change since white settlement.

No one in this state....no one argues falling rain fall/water issues since white settlement .....no one.

1974 is the cut off year with no more outlier years.

https://www.watercorporation.com.au/water-supply/rainfall-and-dams/streamflow

Rising CO2 will affect climate this basic science FFS

 

[cynic]

You are kidding surely

WA has absolutely irrefutable stats showing climate change since white settlement.

No one in this state....no one argues falling rain fall/water issues since white settlement .....no one.

1974 is the cut off year with no more outlier years.

https://www.watercorporation.com.au/water-supply/rainfall-and-dams/streamflow

Rising CO2 will affect climate this basic science FFS

Ifocus, when seeking to identify the causative influences underlying water related issues, before automatically blaming CO2, perhaps first consider what happens, when a large population of organisms, mostly composed of water, approximately doubles in under a century.

 

[Smurf1976]

WA has absolutely irrefutable stats showing climate change since white settlement.

...

1974 is the cut off year with no more outlier years.

It's less severe but the same pattern also exists in Tasmania. That of no more wet years and occurring as abrupt "steps" with the first one in the mid-1970's.

So you can rule out any purely local things as the cause given that south-west WA and Tasmania are quite some distance apart and separated by the sea.