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Is Global Warming becoming unstoppable?

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cynic said:
My position is:

I believe that the climate has been continually changing, since inception, and that those changes are largely in accordance with natural cycles.

Correlations are often hastily conflated with causation, leading to unreliable conclusions.

The objective practice of science, has long since left the laboratory.

Mankind has simply created yet another apocalyptic religion, one which, like numerous others before it, is accompanied with a height of hysteria, that has rendered it unhelpful to the objective practice of scientific research.

Some idealists, recognising an opportunity in the confusion, have weaponised the apocalyptic ideology, in order to employ it in their covert war against Western capitalism.

Objective scientific research, free from political influence, is what is ideally required, in order to have confidence in answers to the what, why and how questions (i.e. What is happening?, Why is it happening?, How is it a problem?).
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Thanks for the reply cynic, much appreciated.

Science has of course left the lab where it was easy to isolate an area of interest and the run repeatable and reproducible experiments. We have advance our knowledge and are now studying large complex systems.

As far as I have read there is little debate that GG have risen or that we are currently experiencing some kind of long term climate change. The messy bit comes when establishing causation.

In such a large complex system, with many feedback loops it is likely that there will never be irrefutable evidence that proves causality or if we do wait for it to be conclusive it is likely too late if we want to try and change it. Bit like trading, if you wait for too many confirming signals you will wait too long and miss the boat.

In my view though, I just do not see enough negatives for trying to reduce GG now.
  • Fossil fuels will run out at some stage, it is a matter if not when we need to switch to renewables or we crack the fusion problem :D
  • Fossil fuels are yuk, they do cause smog and many other nasties and as the population continues to grow I can only assume it will get worse
  • There is limited downside to starting the switch to renewables. Just like having insurance, my house did not burn down this year but I am glad I insured against it
  • Long term with enough investment and hopefully a few technology leaps, energy will actually become cheaper
  • I am sure there are many more but I do need to go to work
I do find the "covert war against Western capitalism" a bit sketchy, huge amounts of money and resources need to piled in to renewables. Not sure how renewables are attacking Western capitalism, if there were a war I would of assumed the energy giants would of done a much better job at defending it self from a few lefty idealists.
 
Re 1974: Yep, something changed at that point, no doubt about that. But as to causation, as noted above, is in no way clear.

Perhaps pre 74 was the anomoly, perhaps there is a greater cycle at play. These things we don't know.
 
luutzu said:
So all the new record breaking weather events; the ever increasing average temperature over the past two decades; the worst floods here, the worst drought there; the 100+ bush fire in the US; the wildfire in Canada; the couple bushfire in Winter in NSW... those are just normal weather event then?

If you say so.
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I didn't hear you whining about the worst everything when the Maunder Minimum hit in the 1600s.

Why aren't you doomsday brothers getting worried about the up coming solar grand minimum that will hit sooner than later in one of 11 year solar cycles. The stratosphere will thin and the north polar cap will warm up too sending sub zero winds all over the northern hemisphere.

I remember almost annual bush fires on the Darling Range escarpment in Perth, big Jarrah and Tuart fires down south. You could set your calendar clock on a summer being red hot and winter being fricken cold. ;)
 
wayneL said:
Re 1974: Yep, something changed at that point, no doubt about that. But as to causation, as noted above, is in no way clear.

Perhaps pre 74 was the anomoly, perhaps there is a greater cycle at play. These things we don't know.
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Was that when they invented El Nino?:rolleyes:

A drop of 0.5deg between the 1940s and the 70's might have had something to do with it....wot!! a drop!! the Guardian didn't me about that !!!

Might also be a 12degC mean/median (50%Rh) change in wetbulb, coz that's physically possible every other day of the week.:D
 
cynic said:
Ifocus, when seeking to identify the causative influences underlying water related issues, before automatically blaming CO2, perhaps first consider what happens, when a large population of organisms, mostly composed of water, approximately doubles in under a century.
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I agree, either way it's doomsday, population growth / economic growth are like a virus it is the same problem same out come earth's resources needed to sustain get exhausted or are changed and become toxic to the very environment that we need for freshwater clean air and food.

Going on about oceans the great heat balance / CO2 absorption / weather machine of the earth the tipping point is not all that high it's well before conclusive proof that the tribal conservatives and their sponsors will accept action is required.

I am actually resigned to the fact that we are going to fail and that future generations will get smashed "such is life".........and death.
 
This is the real La La Land. Just party folks:-

"The Liberal Party is destroying itself because a few politicians cannot bring themselves to act to protect people and nature from climate damage. They have repeatedly wrecked efforts to cut pollution – and now want Australia to abandon the global Paris Agreement.

The new Prime Minister, Scott Morrison, was the man who laughed as he tossed a lump of coal in Parliament. The dirty prop was supplied by industry lobby group, the Minerals Council of Australia.

email_morrison_coal.jpg


Enough. This must stop. The decade of wrecking must end.

1600 winter bushfires raged across Queensland and NSW last week, leaving experts “gobsmacked”."
 
IFocus said:
I am actually resigned to the fact that we are going to fail and that future generations will get smashed "such is life".........and death.
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I've had my time arguing with imbeciles, and it can be mortifying. But take heart Focus. Even as we speak in the back blocks of retro grade bumfuk Duttonville Qld, Darling downes(obviously there are a few of them out there that can count)... $6 billion dollars of investment in renewable energy is approved and of that $1.2billion is being put into capital. There is of course the rump of coal juggling parliamentarians hoping against hope that jesus will descend from the heavens to re-anoint mans right to rail against reason and to live happily in delusion and poverty ever after, but the direction of the money isn't on their side. Funny that.

Cretins and Credlin only the thickness of a Talio Paper between them and not even that....
(ps focus...I'm much less like than u)
 
orr said:
I've had my time arguing with imbeciles, and it can be mortifying. But take heart Focus. Even as we speak in the back blocks of retro grade bumfuk Duttonville Qld, Darling downes(obviously there are a few of them out there that can count)... $6 billion dollars of investment in renewable energy is approved and of that $1.2billion is being put into capital. There is of course the rump of coal juggling parliamentarians hoping against hope that jesus will descend from the heavens to re-anoint mans right to rail against reason and to live happily in delusion and poverty ever after, but the direction of the money isn't on their side. Funny that.

Cretins and Credlin only the thickness of a Talio Paper between them and not even that....
(ps focus...I'm much less like than u)
Click to expand...

You could always switch off the coal fired electrical power to your home in protest and conservation? If everyone did that the companies would go broke and that would be a good thing for the environment ... not so good for humans and the animals slaughtered for food by feral gangs of starving, diseased ridden people, but who cares when imbeciles won't do as they are told by the all seeing eye doomsday oracles of society

Parasites are like that, they feed off the host while killing or retarding i's growth potential.
 
orr said:
I've had my time arguing with imbeciles, and it can be mortifying. But take heart Focus. Even as we speak in the back blocks of retro grade bumfuk Duttonville Qld, Darling downes(obviously there are a few of them out there that can count)... $6 billion dollars of investment in renewable energy is approved and of that $1.2billion is being put into capital. There is of course the rump of coal juggling parliamentarians hoping against hope that jesus will descend from the heavens to re-anoint mans right to rail against reason and to live happily in delusion and poverty ever after, but the direction of the money isn't on their side. Funny that.

Cretins and Credlin only the thickness of a Talio Paper between them and not even that....
(ps focus...I'm much less like than u)
Click to expand...

Thanks Orr.....
 
Tisme said:
You could always switch off the coal fired electrical power to your home in protest and conservation?
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If we didn't have so many tossers that came from that "bunfuk" place playing political motivated ideological games but had instead had solid energy policies that gave certainty business could invest capital that may or may not include coal.

You would of course base the policies on the endless reports/research and consult with business with capital.

Instead we have fu(king morons making up BS.

At the moment there nothing.
 
sptrawler said:
Well it might be hot over East, but it is bloody freezing in Perth, it is like a winter from the 1970's bloody cold.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-08-29/perth-august-rain-record-falls-wettest-in-26-years/10178884

I see Tassie is getting a cold snap also.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-08-30/tasmania-freezes-as-record-low-broken-in-overnight/10182274
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It cold here ... really cold mornings for QLD.

Oz itself is coldest for long time , the press citing >~10 years, which probably means since measurements began, but that would wreck the conversation.
 
Tisme said:
It cold here ... really cold mornings for QLD.

Oz itself is coldest for long time , the press citing >~10 years, which probably means since measurements began, but that would wreck the conversation.
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Not at all, that's just where many doubters seem to get it wrong.

Global warming is pushing the extremes at both ends. It "the displacement effect" and I've posted about it here for years. In the past the north and south poles were so cold that little moved weather wise. As it warmed air began to rise, bringing with it more moisture than normal. This also increased the movements of air, ie., increased winds and storms which began to move things south and north from each end respectively. So away from the poles, new records for heat, cold and storms.

I have read and studied these aspects for years now and there is just so much. Do yourself a favor and have a real THINK about it overall, and do some objective study. Wish the pollies would fill their (now proven) empty spaces between ears with some real learning. But no, they fly flags at the fancy schools and unis who hand out degrees as long as they behave, play good horse hockey. pay a fortune and have the right family pedigree so believe they are right up there near their God (FFS).
 
explod said:
Not at all, that's just where many doubters seem to get it wrong.

Global warming is pushing the extremes at both ends. It "the displacement effect" and I've posted about it here for years. In the past the north and south poles were so cold that little moved weather wise. As it warmed air began to rise, bringing with it more moisture than normal. This also increased the movements of air, ie., increased winds and storms which began to move things south and north from each end respectively. So away from the poles, new records for heat, cold and storms.
.
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So new records for heat, cold and storms.
That should cover all eventualities.:xyxthumbs
 

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