Is Global Warming becoming unstoppable?

[IFocus]

And in the same vein, Australia whipping itself into oblivion, will at best have 1% affect on the estimated climate change, that is if we actually shut the whole place down and last man out switched the lights off.

So your point is?

Why do I have to put up with posters, constantly telling me/we should be doing better, why can't they just post up how they are actually making a ffckn difference?

Try again
"You know individual stuff has no effect long proved by the environment groups its Government policy's and big companies behavior that determines the required outcomes."

What individuals do is only useful for naysayers virtual signaling surely you are not doing that?

You also know longer term there are massive advantages of getting renewables right.

So what's your point

 

[wayneL]

Try again
"You know individual stuff has no effect long proved by the environment groups its Government policy's and big companies behavior that determines the required outcomes."

What individuals do is only useful for naysayers virtual signaling surely you are not doing that?

You also know longer term there are massive advantages of getting renewables right.

So what's your point

Cool

I'm buying a Ram 2500 and a Shelby Cobra to lay rubber on the weekends. Rebuilding the house with reverse cycle air-conditioning, a pool, and every feckin electrical device under the sun.

I'm going to buy only imported woobla and gourmet foods... And feck first class on my many overseas trips from now on, I'm going to go large on credit spreads to pay for the Lear Jet I just put on order.

Happy to be absolved of my responsibility as apparently a carbon tax will save the planet.

 

[sptrawler]

Try again
"You know individual stuff has no effect long proved by the environment groups its Government policy's and big companies behavior that determines the required outcomes."

What individuals do is only useful for naysayers virtual signaling surely you are not doing that?

You also know longer term there are massive advantages of getting renewables right.

So what's your point

Believe it or not individuals have a huge impact, on emissions, as can be seen by per capita power usage in first world cities as opposed to third world cities.
But as usual you will change the narrative to suit your agenda, carry on. Lol

 

[Smurf1976]

"You know individual stuff has no effect long proved by the environment groups its Government policy's and big companies behavior that determines the required outcomes."

What individuals do is only useful for naysayers virtual signaling surely you are not doing that?

My view it's in the middle.

Looking at my own personal situation, key factors of relevance, and who made the decision the bottom line is some were government but most were myself, the previous owners of the house I now own or the original builder of it.

The other issue is simply that there's no side of politics that isn't a failure on the subject. Labor, Greens, Liberal, National, One Nation, whoever. They might've done some good on various issues but climate isn't among them. The track record of them all is much the same in that the might say something ought be done about climate, but when push comes to shove it's a long way down their list of priorities.

Actions speak louder than words. Take a look at the track record of any of the parties and it's not good, not good at all.

 

[basilio]

There is no doubt global heating is having a profound effect on the climate around the world. It won't get better. What should be our response ?

I thought this story offered the best way to go.

I understand climate scientists’ despair – but stubborn optimism may be our only hope​

Christiana Figueres

Fighting spirit helped us achieve the Paris accords in 2015 – and we need it now the world is on course to overshoot 1.5C
‘Hopeless and broken’: why the world’s top climate scientists are in despair

Christiana Figueres was the head of the UN climate change convention from 2010 to 2016
Fri 10 May 2024 01.26 AESTLast modified on Fri 10 May 2024 04.58 AEST

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...stubborn-optimism-paris-2015-climate#comments
262
“Hopeless and broken”: that is how a top scientist interviewed by the Guardian described feeling as she and hundreds of other climate experts shared harrowing predictions of the future of the planet this week.

I resonate with her feelings of despair. Even as the former head of the UN climate change convention that achieved the Paris agreement in 2015, I, like many, can succumb to believing in the worst possible outcome. Just after I assumed the role of UN climate chief in 2010, I said to a room full of reporters that I didn’t believe a global agreement on climate would be possible in my lifetime.

..... A sense of despair is understandable, but it robs us of our agency, makes us vulnerable to mis- and disinformation, and prevents the radical collaboration we need. Doubt holds us back from taking bold action, which is why it is strategically seized upon by incumbents, who have invested millions of dollars (probably much more) in sowing uncertainty around the climate crisis and its solutions among the general public.

We all have a right to grieve the loss of a future free from the climate crisis. It is a deep, hard loss. And it’s particularly painful, because those of us who read these reports bear a great responsibility in passing an unsafe planet on to our children and future generations. But grief that stops at despair is an ending that I and many others, most notably those on the frontlines, are not prepared to accept.

We also have the responsibility – and the opportunity – to shape the future differently. We must take stock of the science, triple down on our efforts and deploy the perspective of possibility.

For example, what has been achieved in transforming the energy system to this point, pushing against a fossil fuel industry deliberately intent on delaying progress, and within a lacklustre policy environment, is extraordinary.

I understand climate scientists' despair – but stubborn optimism may be our only hope | Christiana Figueres

Fighting spirit helped us achieve the Paris accords in 2015 – and we need it now, says climate expert Christiana Figueres

www.theguardian.com

 

[investor13]

There is no doubt global heating is having a profound effect on the climate around the world. It won't get better. What should be our response ?

I thought this story offered the best way to go.

I understand climate scientists’ despair – but stubborn optimism may be our only hope​

Christiana Figueres
View attachment 176589

Fighting spirit helped us achieve the Paris accords in 2015 – and we need it now the world is on course to overshoot 1.5C
‘Hopeless and broken’: why the world’s top climate scientists are in despair

Christiana Figueres was the head of the UN climate change convention from 2010 to 2016
Fri 10 May 2024 01.26 AESTLast modified on Fri 10 May 2024 04.58 AEST

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...stubborn-optimism-paris-2015-climate#comments
262
“Hopeless and broken”: that is how a top scientist interviewed by the Guardian described feeling as she and hundreds of other climate experts shared harrowing predictions of the future of the planet this week.

I resonate with her feelings of despair. Even as the former head of the UN climate change convention that achieved the Paris agreement in 2015, I, like many, can succumb to believing in the worst possible outcome. Just after I assumed the role of UN climate chief in 2010, I said to a room full of reporters that I didn’t believe a global agreement on climate would be possible in my lifetime.

..... A sense of despair is understandable, but it robs us of our agency, makes us vulnerable to mis- and disinformation, and prevents the radical collaboration we need. Doubt holds us back from taking bold action, which is why it is strategically seized upon by incumbents, who have invested millions of dollars (probably much more) in sowing uncertainty around the climate crisis and its solutions among the general public.

We all have a right to grieve the loss of a future free from the climate crisis. It is a deep, hard loss. And it’s particularly painful, because those of us who read these reports bear a great responsibility in passing an unsafe planet on to our children and future generations. But grief that stops at despair is an ending that I and many others, most notably those on the frontlines, are not prepared to accept.

We also have the responsibility – and the opportunity – to shape the future differently. We must take stock of the science, triple down on our efforts and deploy the perspective of possibility.

For example, what has been achieved in transforming the energy system to this point, pushing against a fossil fuel industry deliberately intent on delaying progress, and within a lacklustre policy environment, is extraordinary.

I understand climate scientists' despair – but stubborn optimism may be our only hope | Christiana Figueres

Fighting spirit helped us achieve the Paris accords in 2015 – and we need it now, says climate expert Christiana Figueres

www.theguardian.com

There no climate crisis!

If there was the highest polluting countries would be forced to have policies to lower omission. They do not
They would be investing in things like solar, they are not
Climate change apparently only happens in Western countries with advanced economies.
It’s nothing more than a globalist bankers swindle

 

[basilio]

Here's something to consider with regard to the reality of what is happening as our world heats up.

The True Power of the Climate Movement Is Now to Admit Our Own Powerlessness

Six years ago, I gave a public lecture at Churchill College Cambridge, called This Civilisation is Finished. Many students were in the audience. It’s far and away the most viral climate talk I’ve ever given. What explains its success? I’m quite certain that the most significant factor is that I...

www.desmog.com

 

[IFocus]

 

[IFocus]

What you need to know about record-breaking heat in the Atlantic » Yale Climate Connections

The ocean heat could fuel an unusually active hurricane season.

t.co

 

[Smurf1976]

Here's something to consider with regard to the reality of what is happening as our world heats up.

The True Power of the Climate Movement Is Now to Admit Our Own Powerlessness

Six years ago, I gave a public lecture at Churchill College Cambridge, called This Civilisation is Finished. Many students were in the audience. It’s far and away the most viral climate talk I’ve ever given. What explains its success? I’m quite certain that the most significant factor is that I...

www.desmog.com

From that article:

how could they cut through, in 2024? Is it by trying harder? Getting angrier? Evincing a more demanding ideology? Using violence?

I'll say no, it's none of those. The solution to war generally isn't more fighting.

What's needed is to drop the politics, to drop any references to the past especially "blame" or "we were right" type arguments and focus on fixing the overall energy situation on all fronts - physical supply, environment, price, geopolitics, etc.

Assuming the science is correct, and I'm not qualified to say it is or isn't, then the solutions are relatively straightforward. The basic problem at the moment being a lack of willingness to make "hard" decisions. Plenty will say climate is the greatest priority and so on - that changes the moment there's a proposal to fix it and they realise the scale of what's involved.

In short, the public needs to grasp, understand and accept the reality of what's required, grit their teeth and get on with it.

At present the "green groups" invariably only want a slowing of emissions, or even just a slowing of growth, in practice despite what they might say meanwhile conservatives argue that God will save us. Centrists then trip over themselves trying to appease both sides. That's never going to work and just leads to endless debate along ideological lines.

An actual solution is one based upon proper science. That is engineering, ecology and so on. What it doesn't need is someone looking to use it as a means to implement a political or religious ideology, get themselves elected to something, or keep themselves busy protesting. That's not fighting for the cause - it's making a mockery of the whole thing.

Real solutions to problems generally happen behind closed doors. Once it's public, once it's political, game over usually.

 

[IFocus]

https://www.columbia.edu/~jeh1/mailings/2024/Hopium.MarchEmail.2024.03.2...

"Global warming in 2010-2023 is 0.30°C/decade, 67% faster than 0.18°C/decade in 1970-
2010 (Fig. 1). The recent warming is different, peaking at 30-60°N (Fig. 2); for clarity we
show the zonal-mean temperature trend both linear in latitude and area-weighted. Such an
acceleration of warming does not simply “happen” – it implies an increased climate forcing
(imposed change of Earth’s energy balance). Greenhouse gas (GHG) forcing growth has been
steady. Solar irradiance has zero trend on decadal time scales. Forcing by volcanic eruptions
has been negligible for 30 years, including water vapor from the Honga Tunga eruption.4 The
one potentially significant change of climate forcing is change of human-made aerosols. The
large warming over the North Pacific and North Atlantic (Fig. 1) coincides with regions
where ship emissions dominate sulfate aerosol production (Fig. 3, from Jin et al.3)"

 

[basilio]

From that article:



I'll say no, it's none of those. The solution to war generally isn't more fighting.

What's needed is to drop the politics, to drop any references to the past especially "blame" or "we were right" type arguments and focus on fixing the overall energy situation on all fronts - physical supply, environment, price, geopolitics, etc.

Assuming the science is correct, and I'm not qualified to say it is or isn't, then the solutions are relatively straightforward. The basic problem at the moment being a lack of willingness to make "hard" decisions. Plenty will say climate is the greatest priority and so on - that changes the moment there's a proposal to fix it and they realise the scale of what's involved.

In short, the public needs to grasp, understand and accept the reality of what's required, grit their teeth and get on with it.

At present the "green groups" invariably only want a slowing of emissions, or even just a slowing of growth, in practice despite what they might say meanwhile conservatives argue that God will save us. Centrists then trip over themselves trying to appease both sides. That's never going to work and just leads to endless debate along ideological lines.

An actual solution is one based upon proper science. That is engineering, ecology and so on. What it doesn't need is someone looking to use it as a means to implement a political or religious ideology, get themselves elected to something, or keep themselves busy protesting. That's not fighting for the cause - it's making a mockery of the whole thing.

Real solutions to problems generally happen behind closed doors. Once it's public, once it's political, game over usually.

You right about the "none of these" comments. In fact that is what Rupert Read says. His observation follows the quote you made

What if the most powerful thing that can be done now is for those who carry the flame of this cause in the public eye instead to admit a kind of defeat? To admit that we are definitively exiting the safe climate space. That even the successes of Extinction Rebellion in 2019 have not translated into policy-change or a saner trajectory. That the tremendous opportunity thrust into humanity’s lap by the Covid pause has largely (albeit not completely) been lost. That now is the time to get serious about adaptation and preparedness; because, as the world’s leading climate scientists admitted in droves with clear and honourable pain this month, our hopes for preventing or sufficiently mitigating dangerous climate change must now be admitted to have been dashed.

We should be in survival mode now. The opportunities we had to stop or (relatively) minimise global warming have passed.

There is no longer any "scientific solution" that will save us from widespread, severe consequences of what is happening and already locked into the climate. There may be "solutions" that enable some reduction of consequences but more importantly enable some semblance of a future.

If people thought that the prescriptions for stopping CC in 1990's or 2000's were way too hard the next wave of "solutions" to survive a 3C plus world will make them look like a picnic.

 

[basilio]

https://www.columbia.edu/~jeh1/mailings/2024/Hopium.MarchEmail.2024.03.2...

"Global warming in 2010-2023 is 0.30°C/decade, 67% faster than 0.18°C/decade in 1970-
2010 (Fig. 1). The recent warming is different, peaking at 30-60°N (Fig. 2); for clarity we
show the zonal-mean temperature trend both linear in latitude and area-weighted. Such an
acceleration of warming does not simply “happen” – it implies an increased climate forcing
(imposed change of Earth’s energy balance). Greenhouse gas (GHG) forcing growth has been
steady. Solar irradiance has zero trend on decadal time scales. Forcing by volcanic eruptions
has been negligible for 30 years, including water vapor from the Honga Tunga eruption.4 The
one potentially significant change of climate forcing is change of human-made aerosols. The
large warming over the North Pacific and North Atlantic (Fig. 1) coincides with regions
where ship emissions dominate sulfate aerosol production (Fig. 3, from Jin et al.3)"

View attachment 177546

Bloody sad isn't it ? The only think putting a break on human caused global warming is human caused sulfate emissions. And now of course we are reducing sulfate emissions because of their contribution to pollution.

I'm aware that there are plans around to inject Sulfates into the atmosphere to reduce global warming. But that is not simple or necessarily safe. And in any case we would still need to stop our current emissions of greenhouse gases.

Stratospheric aerosol injection - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[basilio]

What you need to know about record-breaking heat in the Atlantic » Yale Climate Connections

The ocean heat could fuel an unusually active hurricane season.

t.co

Hard to know what to say about such a challenging situation.

Long story short. Heat levels in the Atlantic Ocean and Carribean sea would potentially fuel the most powerful hurricances with the most intense rainfall ever seen.

Be interesting to see how insurance companies are responding to this warning.

2024 hurricane season could be among most active in history, NOAA forecasts. Here's why.

NOAA has issued its most severe forecast ever for hurricane season. These factors are combining to create an alarming brew.

www.nola.com

 

[basilio]

Relentless global warming charged heat waves.

Delhi temperature hits 50.5C as India’s capital records hottest day​

Authorities warn of water shortages as temperatures reach nine degrees higher than expected

• Record breaking heat hits Delhi – in pictures

Amrit Dhillon in Delhi and Agence France-Presse
Wed 29 May 2024 20.43 AESTFirst published on Wed 29 May 2024 15.54 AEST


Temperatures in Delhi have hit a record high of 50.5C (122.9F), as authorities warned of water shortages in India’s capital.
The India Meteorological Department (IMD), which reported “severe heat-wave conditions”, recorded the temperature in the suburb of Mungeshpur on Wednesday afternoon, breaking the landmark 50C measurement for the first time in the city.

The temperature was more than nine degrees higher than expected, the IMD said, and came on the second day of record-breaking heat. On Tuesday a high of 49.9C had been hit in Mungeshpur and Narela, breaking the 2002 record of 49.2C.
The IMD warned of the heat’s impact on health, especially for children, elderly people and those with chronic diseases. The alert warns there is a “very high likelihood of developing heat illness and heat stroke in all ages”, with “extreme care needed for vulnerable people”.

India is no stranger to searing summer temperatures. Years of scientific research have found the climate crisis is causing heatwaves to become longer, more frequent and more intense.

Delhi heatwave: officials investigating if temperature of 52.9C due to faulty sensor

Meteorological department examining data from Mungeshpur station amid soaring temperatures that came close to 50 degrees Celsius

www.theguardian.com

 

[basilio]

And of course not just India.

Crippling’ drought in Zambia threatens hunger for millions, says minister​

Collins Nzovu says country’s plight is foretaste of disasters that will increasingly afflict region as climate breakdown takes hold

Fiona Harvey Environment editor
Tue 28 May 2024 14.00 AESTLast modified on Tue 28 May 2024 14.24 AEST



Severe drought in Zambia is threatening hunger for millions of people, cutting off electricity for long periods and destroying the country’s social fabric and economy, the environment minister has warned, in a harbinger of what is in store for the region as the climate crisis worsens.
Collins Nzovu said the “crippling drought” his country was experiencing hammered home the message that developing countries were facing catastrophe from the climate crisis, even as richer countries failed to muster financial help for the most afflicted.

“What has happened this year is that we received well below the normal rainfall. This has been a crippling drought,” he said. “We’ve had a huge crop failure. A lot of people who depend on maize, who depend on agriculture for their very survival, face starvation and hunger.”

The rains failed in February, when maize, the country’s staple crop, reaches the “tasselling” stage, when the grains start to fill. A lack of rainfall at that time means there is little prospect of saving most of the crop.

‘Crippling’ drought in Zambia threatens hunger for millions, says minister

Collins Nzovu says country’s plight is foretaste of disasters that will increasingly afflict region as climate breakdown takes hold

www.theguardian.com

 

[noirua]

Relentless global warming charged heat waves.

Delhi temperature hits 50.5C as India’s capital records hottest day​

Authorities warn of water shortages as temperatures reach nine degrees higher than expected

• Record breaking heat hits Delhi – in pictures

Amrit Dhillon in Delhi and Agence France-Presse
Wed 29 May 2024 20.43 AESTFirst published on Wed 29 May 2024 15.54 AEST


Temperatures in Delhi have hit a record high of 50.5C (122.9F), as authorities warned of water shortages in India’s capital.
The India Meteorological Department (IMD), which reported “severe heat-wave conditions”, recorded the temperature in the suburb of Mungeshpur on Wednesday afternoon, breaking the landmark 50C measurement for the first time in the city.

The temperature was more than nine degrees higher than expected, the IMD said, and came on the second day of record-breaking heat. On Tuesday a high of 49.9C had been hit in Mungeshpur and Narela, breaking the 2002 record of 49.2C.
The IMD warned of the heat’s impact on health, especially for children, elderly people and those with chronic diseases. The alert warns there is a “very high likelihood of developing heat illness and heat stroke in all ages”, with “extreme care needed for vulnerable people”.

India is no stranger to searing summer temperatures. Years of scientific research have found the climate crisis is causing heatwaves to become longer, more frequent and more intense.

Delhi heatwave: officials investigating if temperature of 52.9C due to faulty sensor

Meteorological department examining data from Mungeshpur station amid soaring temperatures that came close to 50 degrees Celsius

www.theguardian.com

New Delhi sweats through its hottest day in recorded history​

It was 52.3 degrees Celsius, or 126 degrees Fahrenheit, in India’s capital yesterday, amid a heat wave that has kept temperatures in several Indian states well above 43 degrees Celsius (about 110 degrees Fahrenheit) for weeks.

The previous record for the highest temperature, of about 48 degrees Celsius, was repeatedly crossed in recent days. Officials feared that the electricity grid was being overwhelmed. Hospitals have been reporting an uptick in cases of heatstroke.

New Delhi Sweats Through Its Hottest Recorded Day

For weeks now, temperatures in several states in northern India have been well over 110, and hospitals have been reporting a rise in heatstroke.

www.nytimes.com

 

[Smurf1976]

We should be in survival mode now. The opportunities we had to stop or (relatively) minimise global warming have passed.

Putting aside debates about climate science and just assuming it's correct as stated, the big problem I see is this.

There's no shortage of engineers, scientists and others who've come up with plans to substantially fix the problem. That is, to drastically reduce the use of fossil fuels whilst retaining "life as we know it".

Trouble is, society just won't accept the implementation of those plans. There's always someone who either objects outright, or seeks to cripple it such that it doesn't do the job.

Hence the promises are just that, empty promises. Net zero will not be achieved in 2050, there's no chance of that, and this will become undeniable to all over the next few years.

If governments and the people ever decide they do want to fix it then they know what to do. Put science and engineering in charge and get the rest out of the way.

At the political level I think the background of all involved is at least part of the problem.

Of the 9 energy ministers (state, territory, federal), bottom line is six have a career background that's with politics, unions or lobbying, two are from the media, and the other had an assortment of jobs most notably in the public service.

None have a qualification in any branch of engineering, any field of science or a trade.

Now realise it's much the same throughout the West and the problems become apparent - the blind are standing in the way of the sighted, insisting they get their way and as a result little progress is made with most things done in a way that's unnecessarily slow, complex and expensive.

 

[DB008]

 

[IFocus]

Putting aside debates about climate science and just assuming it's correct as stated, the big problem I see is this.

There's no shortage of engineers, scientists and others who've come up with plans to substantially fix the problem. That is, to drastically reduce the use of fossil fuels whilst retaining "life as we know it".

Trouble is, society just won't accept the implementation of those plans. There's always someone who either objects outright, or seeks to cripple it such that it doesn't do the job.

Hence the promises are just that, empty promises. Net zero will not be achieved in 2050, there's no chance of that, and this will become undeniable to all over the next few years.

If governments and the people ever decide they do want to fix it then they know what to do. Put science and engineering in charge and get the rest out of the way.

At the political level I think the background of all involved is at least part of the problem.

Of the 9 energy ministers (state, territory, federal), bottom line is six have a career background that's with politics, unions or lobbying, two are from the media, and the other had an assortment of jobs most notably in the public service.

None have a qualification in any branch of engineering, any field of science or a trade.

Now realise it's much the same throughout the West and the problems become apparent - the blind are standing in the way of the sighted, insisting they get their way and as a result little progress is made with most things done in a way that's unnecessarily slow, complex and expensive.

It temperatures keep rising at the current rate by 2050 there will have been serious consequences many areas unliveable, political instability, major wars etc.

Increasing temperatures in our oceans are the end game given the lag effect as the oceans soak up heat compounded by following exponential surface temperatures rising.

We actually need to get down to net negative... won't happen.

Getting to net zero will become much harder outside of the "Great Peace" period we are living through now.

The major changes coming (energy will be the least of our problems) will force populations to do the unthinkable to survive.