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Is Global Warming becoming unstoppable?

As with most things, the truth is somewhere in the middle.

Is the climate changing? The available data says yes, it is changing.

Have we experienced all extremes of weather that would occur with an unchanged climate since accurate records began? Almost certainly no, bearing in mind that for many areas the period of accurate recordkeeping is rather short.

Does recycling help? Well that depends what you're recycling and how you're recycling it. What can be said though is that of itself it's nowhere near a total solution despite having some benefits as such (noting that depending on what's being recycled, the primary benefit isn't necessarily about the climate since there's also other benefits from it).

All of this comes down to detail. Take plastic for example. Depending on circumstances it's anywhere between pure evil and the best thing invented thus far. Totally depends on the detail - what sort of plastic and what's being done with it. From a human safety perspective well as an electrical insulator and moulded structural material it sure as hell beats asbestos. As a food for birds and fish though well it's pure evil. Detail..... :2twocents

I have never doubted that the climate is changing, history shows it is always happening, no reason for it to ever stop.

If you go to Mungo NP you can see what it was like for thousands of years, what is now desert was a lush chain of lakes.

They say that the weather pattern that now blows along the Oz bight used to blow across Rockhampton, over the last 12000 years it has moved that far as the Earth warmed after the last big Ice Age.

With so many people on the planet we are always going to effect it, millions of people in India burn cow dung instead of turning on a light or hot plate.

Is it better to burn coal and make electricity or burn cow dung and timber ? We need to include the making of the posts and wires as well as the light bulbs and appliances when we discuss the pros and cons.

Adani are adamant that it is better to make electricity in their modern power plant than burn things which produce smoke.

Often the younger set, (15 to 35 years) are avid greens yet they happily throw out perfectly good clothes and devices so that they stay in fashion and to expect them to turn out a light after leaving a room is just nagging.

I like the slogan "think globally but act locally" but it does not appeal to everyone, we regularly pick up Maccas wrapping and empty cans and bottles from our footpath.

We live about 5k from Maccas so not sure what happens in between, maybe it takes them that long to eat a burger :mad:
 
I like the slogan "think globally but act locally"
Same here.

The "issue" I've long had with mainstream environmental politics however is that it tends to do the exact opposite. Think extremely locally and completely ignore the global picture or even the national one.

As a case in point, the oil and gas industry in New Zealand where the government has a plan to cease production and shift to imports.

So that means more greenhouse gas emissions for gas liquefaction.

It means more emissions from shipping.

No impact on anything is actually avoided, just moved to the other side of the world in an ultimate act of NIMBY.

Plus sending money to the dominant oil and gas countries helps fund wars and atrocities.

A classic case of thinking locally and ignoring the rest of the planet completely. Makes sure thare aren't any spills washing up on NZ beaches, enables some virtue signalling that they stopped oil and gas production, meanwhile makes the situation worse at the global level.

Far more effective would be to wind down the use of oil and gas in an orderly but timely manner but in the meantime making every possible effort to produce what's still being used domestically. Trouble is, that doesn't sue the political "optics" as they call it. :2twocents
 
Same here.

The "issue" I've long had with mainstream environmental politics however is that it tends to do the exact opposite. Think extremely locally and completely ignore the global picture or even the national one.

As a case in point, the oil and gas industry in New Zealand where the government has a plan to cease production and shift to imports.

So that means more greenhouse gas emissions for gas liquefaction.

It means more emissions from shipping.

No impact on anything is actually avoided, just moved to the other side of the world in an ultimate act of NIMBY.

Plus sending money to the dominant oil and gas countries helps fund wars and atrocities.

A classic case of thinking locally and ignoring the rest of the planet completely. Makes sure thare aren't any spills washing up on NZ beaches, enables some virtue signalling that they stopped oil and gas production, meanwhile makes the situation worse at the global level.

Far more effective would be to wind down the use of oil and gas in an orderly but timely manner but in the meantime making every possible effort to produce what's still being used domestically. Trouble is, that doesn't sue the political "optics" as they call it. :2twocents
When the industry already exists it seem silly to scrap it, a bit like the idiot in SA blowing up a good power station.

To deliberately cause the country to lose oil independence is rather foolish and very dangerous, as is being shown in Europe at present.

For NZ to go all EV and virtue signal their green power is rather hypocritical given they reshaped thousands of acres when creating their hydro system and lakes.

Personally, I strongly support hydro and even pumped hydro where suitable sites already exist so I am not against the creation of the scheme in NZ.

It is just the smugness of their woke attitude and the annoyed looks I get when I remind my family members that the whole thing is man made :roflmao:
 
I have never doubted that the climate is changing, history shows it is always happening, no reason for it to ever stop.

If you go to Mungo NP you can see what it was like for thousands of years, what is now desert was a lush chain of lakes.

They say that the weather pattern that now blows along the Oz bight used to blow across Rockhampton, over the last 12000 years it has moved that far as the Earth warmed after the last big Ice Age.

With so many people on the planet we are always going to effect it, millions of people in India burn cow dung instead of turning on a light or hot plate.

Is it better to burn coal and make electricity or burn cow dung and timber ? We need to include the making of the posts and wires as well as the light bulbs and appliances when we discuss the pros and cons.

Adani are adamant that it is better to make electricity in their modern power plant than burn things which produce smoke.

Often the younger set, (15 to 35 years) are avid greens yet they happily throw out perfectly good clothes and devices so that they stay in fashion and to expect them to turn out a light after leaving a room is just nagging.

I like the slogan "think globally but act locally" but it does not appeal to everyone, we regularly pick up Maccas wrapping and empty cans and bottles from our footpath.

We live about 5k from Maccas so not sure what happens in between, maybe it takes them that long to eat a burger :mad:
There's a pretty clear problem isn't there Macca ? You simply don't accept the scientific evidence that the current steep increase in global temperatures is a direct result of massive human burning of fossil fuels boosting atmospheric CO2 to levels we havn't seen for hundreds of thousands of years.

Everything else you have to say is just a meandering side step of reality. :(
 
Temperatures at the Arctic and Antarctic now showing extremes that couldn't have been considered only a decade ago.

Antarctic and Arctic heat records have been smashed. What's going on?

ABC Science
/
By environment reporter Nick Kilvert
Posted 3h ago3 hours ago, updated 3h ago3 hours ago
93&cropW=2121&xPos=0&yPos=163&width=862&height=485.jpg

Parts of Antarctic recorded their warmest temperatures on record, and it was warm enough to rain on the coast.(Getty Images: Paul Souders)
Help keep family & friends informed by sharing this article

Antarctic and Arctic temperature records were sent tumbling over the weekend.

Key points:​

  • An 'atmospheric river' drove warm, moist air down over Antarctica
  • It was warm enough to rain over parts of the Antarctic coast
  • Research will have to be done before we can scientifically conclude what role climate change played
Parts of eastern Antarctica were reportedly around 40 degrees Celsius above average, with Concordia weather station at 3,234 metres above sea level recording its highest ever temperature of -11.5 degrees Celsius, according to tweets from meteorologist Etienne Kapikian from France-Meteo.

The March temperature record at Antarctica's Vostok station was broken by almost 15C and the Terra Nova Base on the Antarctic coast hit +7C, according to tweets by extreme weather tracker Maximiliano Herrera.
Meanwhile, at the other end of the planet, parts of the Arctic were reported to be experiencing extremes pushing 30C above the monthly average. Heat records were broken in Norway and extreme highs were recorded in Greenland.

 
Have you ordered the E.V yet @basilio ? Don't forget every little bit helps with climate change.
Not yet. I just walk everywhere or use my electric bike.

Of course I recharge my bike via an indoors exercise bike connected to a generator /battery back.

I replace my worn out shoe leather from all the walking with the tread from old car tyres.

Of course if everything hits the fan I'll have to seriously consider sharing a cave in the Nillabour with Wayne. However we are still having discussions around my trans gender grand children as well as the gay and pan sexual children who will also need to escape from the coming climate apocalypse.

But hey it is all in hand..;)
 
What the conservative military establishment thinks about Global Heating.

ASLCG Open Letter


The first duty of government is to protect the people, but on climate–security risks, Australia is missing in action.


Download


An open letter to Australia’s political leaders​


As ex-Service members and experienced security practitioners who have witnessed up-close the devastation of war and crisis, we consider that climate change now represents the greatest threat to the future and security of Australians.

The first duty of government is the safety and protection of the people, but Australia has failed when it comes to climate change threats. Australia currently has no credible climate policy, leaving our nation unprepared for increasingly harsh impacts.

We call upon all those offering themselves as political leaders in this election year to make climate change a primary focus and commit to mobilising the resources necessary to address this clear and present danger.

Our Earth is already too hot and climate change is already dangerous. Fossil fuel emissions must be reduced to zero at emergency speed. The goal of net zero emissions by 2050 is wholly inadequate; decarbonisation must be reached as close to 2030 as possible. Accelerating renewables to secure energy resilience in a conflicted world is critical for Australia.

Climate change imperils the health, well-being and livelihoods of Australia’s people. Hotter and more extreme weather, floods, bushfires, cyclones and heatwaves, together with coastal inundation, are threatening water, transport, food and other critical infrastructure systems, disrupting supply chains and undermining our resilience as a nation.

The recent east coast floods and the Black Summer bushfires compelled major peacetime mobilisations of the Australian Defence Force, including Reserves, which is now increasingly being used to undertake climate-related humanitarian and disaster relief.
The Great Barrier Reef is at risk of collapse; likewise irrigated agriculture in the longer term in the Murray-Darling Basin system, which remains under severe stress.

Across our region, climate change is an existential threat to nations and communities, especially those vulnerable to sea-level rise. Globally, water and food crises exacerbated by climate change, along with population pressures, have resulted in escalating cycles of civil unrest and conflict. Inevitably, vulnerable people migrate from affected areas in increasing numbers.

Addressing this challenge requires global co-operation rather than conflict. While our allies are taking action, climate-security risks are not being properly assessed in Australia; we are ill-prepared, and failing in our responsibilities as a global citizen and strategic defence ally.
Climate must be made an immediate security priority, at the top of the national agenda, with a commitment for mobilisation and emergency action from all sides of politics.

Your Sincerely,



ADMIRAL CHRIS BARRIE AC​

Former Chief, Australian Defence Force (Retd)

AIR VICE-MARSHAL JOHN BLACKBURN AO​

Deputy Chief, Royal Australian Air Force (Retd)

COLONEL NEIL GREET

Australian Army (Retd)

AIR VICE-MARSHAL NEIL HART AM​

Royal Air Force (Retd)

VICE ADMIRAL PAUL MADDISON​

Royal Australian Navy (Retd)

GROUP CAPTAIN ANNE BORZYCKI​

Royal Australian Air Force (Retd)

LIEUTENANT COLONEL DECHLAN ELLIS​

Australian Army (Retd)

COMMODORE VINCENZO DI PIETRO AM,CSC​

Royal Australian Navy (Retd)

CAPTAIN PADDY HODGMAN

Royal Australian Navy (Retd)

COLONEL JOHN BLAXLAND

Australian Army (Retd)


COMMODORE DREW MCKINNIE​

Royal Australian Navy (Retd)

LIEUTENANT COMMANDER STEVE COLE​

Royal Australian Navy (Retd)

MAJOR MICHAEL THOMAS​

Australian Army (Retd)

CHERYL DURRANT​

Former Director of Preparedness and Mobilisation, Australian Department of Defence

JASON BROWN

Former Assistant Secretary, Defence Security

DR PETER LAYTON

Associate Fellow Royal United Services Institute

DR ALBERT PALAZZO​

Former Director of War Studies, Australian Army

IAN DUNLOP​

Former Chair, Australian Coal Association
 
Not yet. I just walk everywhere or use my electric bike.

Of course I recharge my bike via an indoors exercise bike connected to a generator /battery back.

I replace my worn out shoe leather from all the walking with the tread from old car tyres.

Of course if everything hits the fan I'll have to seriously consider sharing a cave in the Nillabour with Wayne. However we are still having discussions around my trans gender grand children as well as the gay and pan sexual children who will also need to escape from the coming climate apocalypse.

But hey it is all in hand..;)
Bring Guinness and all will be good ;)
 
What the conservative military establishment thinks about Global Heating.

ASLCG Open Letter


The first duty of government is to protect the people, but on climate–security risks, Australia is missing in action.


Download


An open letter to Australia’s political leaders​


As ex-Service members and experienced security practitioners who have witnessed up-close the devastation of war and crisis, we consider that climate change now represents the greatest threat to the future and security of Australians.

The first duty of government is the safety and protection of the people, but Australia has failed when it comes to climate change threats. Australia currently has no credible climate policy, leaving our nation unprepared for increasingly harsh impacts.

We call upon all those offering themselves as political leaders in this election year to make climate change a primary focus and commit to mobilising the resources necessary to address this clear and present danger.

Our Earth is already too hot and climate change is already dangerous. Fossil fuel emissions must be reduced to zero at emergency speed. The goal of net zero emissions by 2050 is wholly inadequate; decarbonisation must be reached as close to 2030 as possible. Accelerating renewables to secure energy resilience in a conflicted world is critical for Australia.

Climate change imperils the health, well-being and livelihoods of Australia’s people. Hotter and more extreme weather, floods, bushfires, cyclones and heatwaves, together with coastal inundation, are threatening water, transport, food and other critical infrastructure systems, disrupting supply chains and undermining our resilience as a nation.

The recent east coast floods and the Black Summer bushfires compelled major peacetime mobilisations of the Australian Defence Force, including Reserves, which is now increasingly being used to undertake climate-related humanitarian and disaster relief.
The Great Barrier Reef is at risk of collapse; likewise irrigated agriculture in the longer term in the Murray-Darling Basin system, which remains under severe stress.

Across our region, climate change is an existential threat to nations and communities, especially those vulnerable to sea-level rise. Globally, water and food crises exacerbated by climate change, along with population pressures, have resulted in escalating cycles of civil unrest and conflict. Inevitably, vulnerable people migrate from affected areas in increasing numbers.

Addressing this challenge requires global co-operation rather than conflict. While our allies are taking action, climate-security risks are not being properly assessed in Australia; we are ill-prepared, and failing in our responsibilities as a global citizen and strategic defence ally.
Climate must be made an immediate security priority, at the top of the national agenda, with a commitment for mobilisation and emergency action from all sides of politics.

Your Sincerely,



ADMIRAL CHRIS BARRIE AC​

Former Chief, Australian Defence Force (Retd)

AIR VICE-MARSHAL JOHN BLACKBURN AO​

Deputy Chief, Royal Australian Air Force (Retd)

COLONEL NEIL GREET

Australian Army (Retd)

AIR VICE-MARSHAL NEIL HART AM​

Royal Air Force (Retd)

VICE ADMIRAL PAUL MADDISON​

Royal Australian Navy (Retd)

GROUP CAPTAIN ANNE BORZYCKI​

Royal Australian Air Force (Retd)

LIEUTENANT COLONEL DECHLAN ELLIS​

Australian Army (Retd)

COMMODORE VINCENZO DI PIETRO AM,CSC​

Royal Australian Navy (Retd)

CAPTAIN PADDY HODGMAN

Royal Australian Navy (Retd)

COLONEL JOHN BLAXLAND

Australian Army (Retd)


COMMODORE DREW MCKINNIE​

Royal Australian Navy (Retd)

LIEUTENANT COMMANDER STEVE COLE​

Royal Australian Navy (Retd)

MAJOR MICHAEL THOMAS​

Australian Army (Retd)

CHERYL DURRANT​

Former Director of Preparedness and Mobilisation, Australian Department of Defence

JASON BROWN

Former Assistant Secretary, Defence Security

DR PETER LAYTON

Associate Fellow Royal United Services Institute

DR ALBERT PALAZZO​

Former Director of War Studies, Australian Army

IAN DUNLOP​

Former Chair, Australian Coal Association
It's o.k, it's getting fixed next term of Government. ;) That's 1.2% of global emissions Australia produces fixed, now for the other 98.8%. ?
 
Bring Guinness and all will be good ;)
Over 60 and still think beer/Guinness googles will solve everything..

That is stout thinking indeed..

I thought the SMP mantra only applied to young bucks who couldn't pull a bird unless both of them were half sozzled. But it takes all sorts I suppose.
 
Over 60 and still think beer/Guinness googles will solve everything..

That is stout thinking indeed..

I thought the SMP mantra only applied to young bucks who couldn't pull a bird unless both of them were half sozzled. But it takes all sorts I suppose.
Beer "googles"? Jeez I am old fashioned.

Anyhow, if Guinness is a little too lowbrow, a few bottles of Grange will suffice, if you're paying ;)
 
Some posters may have heard of Climate Change Tipping points. But what does that mean ? What are the situations that would irrevocably create runway global heating that no amount of tree planting/ electric cars/ renewable energy can fix?

This is a clear well written analysis. Well worth checking out.

Climate Tipping Points

The 8 climate tipping points we could reach this century.

0*6VomPTLJjAJ6BEjl.jpg

This is what climate tipping points will do to Florida by 2050 as sea levels rise. Image: ClimateCentral.org

Abrupt Collapse of Climate System​

The phrase “climate tipping point” describes how parts of Earth’s climate system could abruptly collapse and trigger an irreversible sequence of warming.

The example most commonly used to illustrate how a climate tipping point works, is a tall tower of bricks. Removing bricks from various locations in the lower part of the tower will gradually weaken its stability. But there comes a point when the removal of just one more brick will send the tower crashing to the ground.

Often, it takes time for the effects of the tip-over to become visible. So it’s possible we may have breached one or more of these critical thresholds without realizing it. As we shall see, an example of this may be the ocean, which takes time to respond to climatic variations.

In This Article​

  • Abrupt Collapse of Climate System
  • What’s the Biggest Problem About Climate Tipping Points?
  • Who First Coined the Term Climate Tipping Points?
  • What Does the IPCC Say About Climate Tipping Points?
  • 8 Major Climate Tipping Points
  • 1. Collapse of the West Antarctic Ice Sheet
  • 2. Drying Out of the Amazon Rainforest
  • 3. Slowdown of the Atlantic Meridional Overturning Circulation (AMOC)
  • 4. Thawing of Northern Permafrost
  • 5. Collapse of the Greenland Ice Sheet
  • 6. Ecological Shifts in the Northern Boreal Forests
  • 7. Loss of Tropical Coral Reefs
  • 8. Hothouse Earth: A Cascade of Climate Tipping Points
  • References
 
The IPCC released the third part of it's latest Climate report. For the first time they delved into just how the world could reduce GG emissions at a pace that would mitigate the worst effects of global heating. If we continue the way we are going the world will heat at least 3C within 30 years with catastrophic effects for everyone.

This analysis goes to the bottom line solutions. If we choose to do them.

 
It's o.k, it's getting fixed next term of Government. ;) That's 1.2% of global emissions Australia produces fixed, now for the other 98.8%. ?
We certainly punch above our weight.
With 0.3% of the global population we knock out 1.2% of global CO2 emissions!
Onya Scomo. I had no idea how good a job you have been doing.
 
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We certainly punch above our weight.
With 0.003% of the global population we knock out 1.2% of global CO2 emissions!
Onya Scomo. I had no idea how good a job you have been doing.
Yes and if he had stopped the bushfires, that would have helped, what the hell is he up to, lucky the rest of us are doing our bit. ?
If we ran the World Rob, the problems would be solved tomorrow avo, over a shiraz, cheese and biscuits. :wheniwasaboy:
 
Yes and if he had stopped the bushfires, that would have helped, what the hell is he up to, lucky the rest of us are doing our bit. ?
If we ran the World Rob, the problems would be solved tomorrow avo, over a shiraz, cheese and biscuits. :wheniwasaboy:
What are we waiting for?
A better bottle of red?

(ps - I did my usual mistake with decimal places as fractions are not percentages!)
 
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