Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

Ignore this at your peril: The USA is going down

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frugal.rock said:
"She'll be right, mate. Just tie it up with wire."
"Oi, Sheila, where's the wire gone"
"We ran out, waiting for the next slow boat from ...."

Really hope we bring back some manufacturing out of this, process our own ore concentrate etc.
F.Rock
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That’ll never happen unless we are prepared to accepted paying those that work in manufacturing $2 per/hr
 
Knobby22 said:
Unlike Germany, with 6 weeks annual leave a year? Just have to be smart about it.
New Zealand also has a large manufacturing component that competes internationaly.
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That’s an interesting point...China has a massive manufacturing industry which has basically been built off the back of cheap and exploitive labour and and almost complete distress for OH&S. Yet as you point out Germany does to but it hasn’t been built on the same basis as China. Why has Germany managed to do this surely there are massive government incentives and subsidies?
 
MovingAverage said:
That’s an interesting point...China has a massive manufacturing industry which has basically been built off the back of cheap and exploitive labour and and almost complete distress for OH&S. Yet as you point out Germany does to but it hasn’t been built on the same basis as China. Why has Germany managed to do this surely there are massive government incentives and subsidies?
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Germany: intelligence, technical education and priority engineer is a title like Doctor or Professor here, the multitude of advanced SME
Hard working mentality, no class warface spirit and Unions working with the management not against, so reasonable compromises and real sharing of both profit but also hard times when required
Here we had a british class warfare mind :see the number of union and labour straight of British background
Thugs vs posh arrogant piece of crap top business figures a la Bond Packer
Does not matter much anymore as we have no union or industry left...
 
MovingAverage said:
That’s an interesting point...China has a massive manufacturing industry which has basically been built off the back of cheap and exploitive labour and and almost complete distress for OH&S. Yet as you point out Germany does to but it hasn’t been built on the same basis as China. Why has Germany managed to do this surely there are massive government incentives and subsidies?
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Quality. Loyalty. Ownership. Employment of my kids. Pride. Reputation. Trust. Reliability. Proximity.
Some None All of the above I don't really know. Just guessing what the market expects.
 
qldfrog said:
Germany: intelligence, technical education and priority engineer is a title like Doctor or Professor here, the multitude of advanced SME
Hard working mentality, no class warface spirit and Unions working with the management not against, so reasonable compromises and real sharing of both profit but also hard times when required
Here we had a british class warfare mind :see the number of union and labour straight of British background
Thugs vs posh arrogant piece of crap top business figures a la Bond Packer
Does not matter much anymore as we have no union or industry left...
Click to expand...

Good points Frog, while this certainly hasn't helped us build a world class manufacturing industry I'm not sure it is entirely at fault for the demise of our manufacturing industry. Maybe I'm right may be I'm wrong who knows, but I suspect a large part of our manufacturing decline has been the result of companies chasing a lower manufacturing cost base and to be more cost competitive in the face of increased global competition. Sometimes I wonder whether this is the result of us as consumers demanding lower prices and always shopping based on price. How often to you hear people in Australia complaining about the cost of goods here compared to say for example the US. We are a society that is very mindful of price. Not saying there is anything wrong with that, but the simple fact of the matter is that if Australia is to build up a local manufacturing industry in which workers are paid a good wages, strong OH&S practices and high product quality standards we will pay more for it that its Chinese counterpart. I think the responsibility of building up a solid manufacturing industry doesn't just lay at the feet of government, but us as consumers play a big part. I think expecting the government to pump in lots of dollars to prop up a manufacturing industry is the wrong way to go (sure the government can offer tax incentives etc) but we can't have our cake and eat it--you can't have low price points on goods if you want great wages, great OH&S, great quality etc. Just my two cents and remember....Holden shut its doors here in Australia because Australian consumers (and parts of the rest of the world) didn't want to buy their cars anymore. No point owning the world's best Chinese restaurant if everyone wants Italian food :D
 
Most people don't think outside the box so a high labour cost stops most people right there.

I don't understand given how cheap solar & wind power can be, not to mention less ongoing pollution once installed, that we haven't thought about bringing back a lot of high energy intense industries such as smelting raw materials into semi-finished form.

Smurf might understand the economics better than me but from a laymans thinking, I'd think a large upfront investment for practically zero cost on going electricity could be utilised very effectively by a lot of industries. I just don't think many people have sat down & thought what's possible if electricity effectively became a once off cost.
 
CBerg said:
Most people don't think outside the box so a high labour cost stops most people right there.

I don't understand given how cheap solar & wind power can be, not to mention less ongoing pollution once installed, that we haven't thought about bringing back a lot of high energy intense industries such as smelting raw materials into semi-finished form.

Smurf might understand the economics better than me but from a laymans thinking, I'd think a large upfront investment for practically zero cost on going electricity could be utilised very effectively by a lot of industries. I just don't think many people have sat down & thought what's possible if electricity effectively became a once off cost.
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We have discussed it a lot in the 'the future of energy generation and storage' thread.
 
Indeed Australia has no planning.
Back to the germany vs here.. Think education even at lower level, tafe like.german university uni is not to get more profit from more chinese chinese students, i would also bet that their chancellor are earning less adjusted of course then here.
Lastly, australian on min wages and welfare recipients here have got it vety very good.i know the left will shout but with real estate costs here..a main performance issue..min wages and welfare are too high against world standards and higher salaries..not ceo but top middle class too low to be competitive internationally
So a taxation issue
If you want s flat society with low difference between bottom and top.. And not talking 1pc,
You end up woth a lowest society
Add to this no support for entrepreneurs..i mean real.. entrepreneurs are tomorrow business, here we mostly have big international corporations
We can show off the Jira and other startups but i would like to see someone starting a mill, a food manufacturing, it companies to do a proper job of centerlink systems etc
Bank attitude to loan tax rate etc
As people following my thread now, when planning to open a second branch of our Chinese startup, i i discarded the Australian option, and we went Japan.yet i was
commuting to china 3weeks a month so personally would have been better by far.
If tax, regulations are not changed we will remain stuck and head toward the Chile of China, slave to the master
 
Smurf1976 said:
Or we stop demanding that manufactured goods are cheap and designed to fail.
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Indeed and a good point, I think consumers have definitely moved to a mindset of cheaper lower cost disposable items instead of quality goods built to last but at a higher cost. China v Germany: China is the cheap disposable model and I think Germany is the quality items built to last
 
MovingAverage said:
Indeed and a good point, I think consumers have definitely moved to a mindset of cheaper lower cost disposable items instead of quality goods built to last but at a higher cost.
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The other thing is a lot of manufacturing now, isn't labour intensive, so wages become a very small cost in the process.
Take for example making a lithium ion battery manufacturing plant, we have all the materials required, why would it be cheaper to send the raw materials than to send completed batteries?
The fact is, we in reality get a pittance for the raw materials, when you consider the price of a battery cell.
 
sptrawler said:
The other thing is a lot of manufacturing now, isn't labour intensive, so wages become a very small cost in the process.
Take for example making a lithium ion battery manufacturing plant, we have all the materials required, why would it be cheaper to send the raw materials than to send completed batteries?
The fact is, we in reality get a pittance for the raw materials, when you consider the price of a battery cell.
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Yup, Australia is pretty good and shipping raw materials overseas and letting someone else add serious value to those raw materials to push it up the value chain. :(
 
sptrawler said:
The other thing is a lot of manufacturing now, isn't labour intensive, so wages become a very small cost in the process.
Take for example making a lithium ion battery manufacturing plant, we have all the materials required, why would it be cheaper to send the raw materials than to send completed batteries?
The fact is, we in reality get a pittance for the raw materials, when you consider the price of a battery cell.
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In case like that, we miss a technical ecosystem: technician to repair maintain, provide a new bord maybe built specifically, then away from market..these batteries are used in stuff that we do not produce here either
And lastly tax
30pc profit tax does not allow you to attract funders, nor potential owners to jump and go into entrepreneurships...
We are a heavily taxed country which might be ok for established business but not for creating ones
 
Dona Ferentes said:
not going to read the thread ... too many agendas, i would think. But in the spirit of its title, this could be USA's Suez moment, some think
https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/china/2020-03-18/coronavirus-could-reshape-global-order
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That Dona,IMO is probably the most pertinent article yet, with regard the virus.
Meanwhile everyone runs around in ever decreasing circles finger pointing, this has been caused by globalisation and it hasn't happened in the last couple of years.
We can't respond to any external threat, because we have offshored all our industries, that goes for most western countries.
 
no agenda just stating facts, tax rate and paperwork regulations to start a business..this is not a left right issue or should not
I just found a very good in my opinion article not so much about the virus but the virus as a trigger to something which would have come anyway
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/changing-world-order-ray-dalio-1f
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/changing-world-order-ray-dalio-1f
A bit heavy but looking at cycle of empire, low interest rates and parallel with the 1930's
 

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